>> Is there any advantage to going with Be instead of O2, which is >> cheaper & the same network? 3 months free & £75 Quidco too. That's who >> I just joined from Sky.
> I know 02 own Be but not sure they are the same in operation and > equipment. > for me from my BT exchange 02 offer up to 8 mb and up to 20 mb. > But Be offer up to 8 mb and up to 24 mb. > See web site Sam Knows for your number and post code.
> -- > Regards, > David
> FREESAT HD as it is now it is a joke.
I May just stick with Nildram 'Lite 25Gb '£14.95 + BT's £11.25 rental + £BT 'anytime' £4.95 for calls = total £31.15 for 25Gb a month inc all 01,02,03 calls
What's wrong with Freesat HD - just out of interest ?
> I May just stick with Nildram 'Lite 25Gb '£14.95 + BT's £11.25 rental + > £BT 'anytime' £4.95 for calls = total £31.15 for 25Gb a month inc all > 01,02,03 calls
that sounds awfully expensive for 25gb usage allowance? surely you can get unlimited usage isps for less than that? - i'm on cable admittedly but my true 50mbit unlimited connection is only 37 a month.
-- Gareth.
that fly...... is your magic wand.... http://dsbdsb.mybrute.com you fight better when you have a bear!
>> I May just stick with Nildram 'Lite 25Gb '£14.95 + BT's £11.25 rental + >> £BT 'anytime' £4.95 for calls = total £31.15 for 25Gb a month inc all >> 01,02,03 calls
> that sounds awfully expensive for 25gb usage allowance? > surely you can get unlimited usage isps for less than that? - i'm on cable > admittedly but my true 50mbit unlimited connection is only 37 a month.
> -- > Gareth.
> that fly...... is your magic wand.... > http://dsbdsb.mybrute.com > you fight better when you have a bear!
That's for :- BT Line rental + 'free' calls + inet Ah yes and off peak unmetered 6pm- 8am I think !
I guess you get what you pay for ! At the moment I pay BT rental £11.25 + Nildram unlimited (no longer sold) £19.99 inc 500 Minutes 01,02,03 calls = £31.24
BUT when we move house I don't think Nildram would transfer for my 'old' service over to a new exchange - as it is now, I expect the usual 'The product you have now is not on my system so I can't sell it to you'
Any other ideas ?? I 'need' about 25 Gb a month and free landline calls
>> I May just stick with Nildram 'Lite 25Gb '£14.95 + BT's £11.25 rental >> + £BT 'anytime' £4.95 for calls = total £31.15 for 25Gb a month inc >> all 01,02,03 calls
> that sounds awfully expensive for 25gb usage allowance? > surely you can get unlimited usage isps for less than that? - i'm on > cable admittedly but my true 50mbit unlimited connection is only 37 a > month.
Its par for the course actually.
A few LLU operators - and I guess virgin cable is equivalent - don't have to rent backhaul off BT, but otherwise what you see with these prices or fair usage policies, is the ISP's best leveraging of costs that BT will charge for access to the backhaul and last mile copper circuits.
Reduced costs mean skimping on bandwidth and implementing fair usage, skimping on support, or delivering a fairly lumpy packet lossy service.
Essentially the BIG ISp's can be a little cheaper, by doing some or all of the stuff themselves, up to and including their own international links. BUT they then waste money on marketing to get the volumes up to justify it, and skimp on support, which you don't find out about till you are signed up on a long term contract. The smaller guys don't have the marketing overhead, but they have to rent space and peering of the bigger boys, and backhaul off BT.
I don't know what the raw costs of things are, but I imagine it probably comes out to something like £6 a month for the copper, and about 75p a gigabyte backhaul. and something similar for international bandwidth.
I DO know that everyone runs on very slender margins these days. No one is getting fat out of supplying bandwidth.
The reality for the putative customer is to work out the usage and support level needed, and pick the optimum from the available selection of those NOT engaged in wasting money on massive marketing - which is a total loss to the customer, and for my part rules out BT completely.
I moved from Claranet, whose bandwith was very very good, but whose prices were high, and whose support had deteriorated a lot, to IDNET, whose bandwidth is a bit more congested, but not unacceptably so, whose support has been very good to date, mostly because they also offered a complete phone line package with utterly transparent pricing and direct debit payment..
My hosting and email remains with Claranet for the time being. But that too will change. I only need email redirection to one hosted site ultimately.
Now that suits my requirements: Having gpot monitoring on my bandwidth and phone usage, I can assess what i need, and choose the package that just coincides with my needs.
other peoples mileage may vary considerably.
I put my sister in laws office on IDNET - she only uses it for email and a very little browsing., so 5GB it was..till her daughters came in and blew it away spending the whole half term on facebook..oh..and of course I had to upgrade her MAC book to the latest crap..tat was a couple of GB too.
>>> I May just stick with Nildram 'Lite 25Gb '£14.95 + BT's £11.25 rental >>> + £BT 'anytime' £4.95 for calls = total £31.15 for 25Gb a month inc >>> all 01,02,03 calls
>> that sounds awfully expensive for 25gb usage allowance? >> surely you can get unlimited usage isps for less than that? - i'm on >> cable admittedly but my true 50mbit unlimited connection is only 37 a >> month.
>> -- >> Gareth.
>> that fly...... is your magic wand.... >> http://dsbdsb.mybrute.com >> you fight better when you have a bear!
> That's for :- BT Line rental + 'free' calls + inet Ah yes and off peak > unmetered 6pm- 8am I think !
> I guess you get what you pay for ! At the moment I pay BT rental £11.25 > + Nildram unlimited (no longer sold) £19.99 inc 500 Minutes 01,02,03 > calls = £31.24
> BUT when we move house I don't think Nildram would transfer for my 'old' > service over to a new exchange - as it is now, I expect the usual 'The > product you have now is not on my system so I can't sell it to you'
> Any other ideas ?? I 'need' about 25 Gb a month and free landline calls
Well what is 'free'? You pay, one way or the other.
I decided my phone usage was low, so went with a PAYG package at very cheap call rates. IDNET HOME PRO broadband an PAYG phone.
And hooked up VOIP via SIPGATE and a billion 7404VGP router ( the other usual alterntaive is a Draytek) so I have a second line that is also PAYG, costs no extra rental, and is damned good for international calls to the places I need.
The base cost is £35 for phone rental. 30GB peak and up to 60GB off peak (midnight to 9 a.m)
Phone calls are extra but at about 1/10th the BT rate.
So I have
two phone lines on different local numbers 30GB bandwidth 60GB off peak
and PAYG calls, for £35 a month.
Two line rentals and calls was costing me £50 a month and broadband on one a further £25 a month before I switched. I am using about £5 a month on phone calls.
Don't even ask what it used to cost when all I could get was 64k ISDN...
The router supports a third line, but SIPGATE support is dire so I have no idea how to get a second SIPGATE number activated. They seem to be based in Germany, and I suspect command of technical English is not their strongest point.
I will add one further point about using a VOIP phone. My actual real POTS line is slightly hissy due to the broadband, and its a bit quiet. The router gives me the option to crank up the volume on the microphone and recieved channels and this is brilliant for my wife, who is a tad deaf. Its also clearer and cleaner than the land line - even *without* broadband on it!.
And if I get the person I spend most time phoning onto SIPGATE as well, then calls will be FREE.
If your average bandwidth is less, then as long as you accept that the time you downloaded a complete set of service packs will cost a little extra, going for a 10GB package will save about £7.50 a month, plus £1 for every GB you use above that.
One of my biggest issues with claranet, was that they simply shut off my access when the limits were exceeded. And forced me to buy more than I needed. With IDNET, they simply add it to your bill.
I have to say that most fixed price contracts with 'free' calls or 'free' bandwidth give me the feeling that ultimately, they are based on a business model that you will buy more than you actually end up using, and be stuck with them for period in which they will make it very difficult to move. IDNET again score there, as all contracts are 1 month only (apart from uncontended ADSL and SDSL). so I can adjust the package as I see fit with very little penalty.
I like the whole approach..which seems to me to be 'look, this is our costs, plus our necessary margins, in a matrix of very simple packages that are flexible and can be tailored to meet your actual needs: we don't do free lunches, and we are not claiming to be the best at all things, we don't do news servers or stuff like that, but if you want unadorned bandwidth and a simple phone service, that's what we do'
>>>> are 'Be-unlimited' any good thoughts please ?
>>> Is there any advantage to going with Be instead of O2, which is >>> cheaper & the same network? 3 months free & £75 Quidco too. That's who >>> I just joined from Sky.
>> I know 02 own Be but not sure they are the same in operation and >> equipment. >> for me from my BT exchange 02 offer up to 8 mb and up to 20 mb. >> But Be offer up to 8 mb and up to 24 mb. >> See web site Sam Knows for your number and post code.
>> -- >> Regards, >> David
>> FREESAT HD as it is now it is a joke.
> I May just stick with Nildram 'Lite 25Gb '£14.95 + BT's £11.25 rental + > £BT 'anytime' £4.95 for calls = total £31.15 for 25Gb a month inc all > 01,02,03 calls
> What's wrong with Freesat HD - just out of interest ?
It only has BBC HD which is some programmes from BBC1, 2, 3 and 4. None of these stations having HD of their own. ITV1 does at times carry a HD programme but maybe only 2 or 3 during a week. Ch4 and Five etc nothing.
This is possibly why Sky is doing far better they offer many more HD programmes, of course you have to pay. -- Regards, David
>>>>> are 'Be-unlimited' any good thoughts please ?
>>>> Is there any advantage to going with Be instead of O2, which is >>>> cheaper & the same network? 3 months free & £75 Quidco too. That's who >>>> I just joined from Sky.
>>> I know 02 own Be but not sure they are the same in operation and >>> equipment. >>> for me from my BT exchange 02 offer up to 8 mb and up to 20 mb. >>> But Be offer up to 8 mb and up to 24 mb. >>> See web site Sam Knows for your number and post code.
>>> -- >>> Regards, >>> David
>>> FREESAT HD as it is now it is a joke.
>> I May just stick with Nildram 'Lite 25Gb '£14.95 + BT's £11.25 rental + >> £BT 'anytime' £4.95 for calls = total £31.15 for 25Gb a month inc all >> 01,02,03 calls
>> What's wrong with Freesat HD - just out of interest ?
> It only has BBC HD which is some programmes from BBC1, 2, 3 and 4. None > of these stations having HD of their own. > ITV1 does at times carry a HD programme but maybe only 2 or 3 during a > week. > Ch4 and Five etc nothing.
> This is possibly why Sky is doing far better they offer many more HD > programmes, of course you have to pay. > -- > Regards, > David
> FREESAT HD as it is now it is a joke.
Ah ok, I was thing it didn't work or something. I have Freesat SD and can see the BBC HD on the guide. Don't watch much TV to justify paying for extra channels - Don't like football/sport, soaps or films much, I was just happy with 1-5 only really watch beeb 1 or 2 and Five for NCIS and CSI - ITV & CH4 are rubbish moron fodder !
> On Thu, 29 Oct 2009 16:37:59 -0000, "Dave" <@me.com> wrote:
>>as the title,
>> are 'Be-unlimited' any good thoughts please ?
> Is there any advantage to going with Be instead of O2, which is > cheaper & the same network? 3 months free & £75 Quidco too. That's who > I just joined from Sky.
BE and O2 LLU are the same network. O2 LLU uses BE's network. You tend to find as BE has the better experience of their network, the support and communication is a little better. As an example, problems on the network tend to be communicated better by BE than O2 BE also will tend to trial new initiatives and technologies which may or may not get rolled out to O2 LLU
O2 may be cheaper, but BE give you the option of enabling fastpath on BE Unlimited and BE Pro whereas O2 only do interleaved. Not an issue if you have a low sync, but if you have a good line, high sync and are a gamer it certainly makes a difference. In this respect, I'm one of the unlucky ones and my line isn't good enough for fastpath
BE also offer profile controls enabling you to tweak your connection. There are also more ways of accessing BE support such as staff manned forums, IRC chat and Live Chat
I see O2 LLU as for the masses and BE as a niche provider for gamers, developers and those that like to experiment
At the end of the day, it all depends on what your needs are and whether low cost is a factor for you or not
BTW I've got an O2 mobile contract and will continue with BE as the peer community is far better with BE and they listen to their customers (well most of the time) :)
Right to some extent with regards to interleaving I believe, however there is no other cap in place and it's just the product name Somewhat misleading if this is the case I'm sure I've seen a few O2 users syncing above 20Mb
In article <hcf9v0$8t...@news.eternal-september.org>, Graham. <m...@privacy.net> writes
>Job done. Called Tiscali cancellations (well, retentions actually), my call >will be answered in 2 minutes (yeh right). >Nearly 15 minutes later I was speaking to a nice guy who seemed to be in >the UK. As expected he tried to retain me with an offer
On Mon, 2 Nov 2009 07:54:21 +0000, Mike Tomlinson wrote: > In article <hcf9v0$8t...@news.eternal-september.org>, Graham. > <m...@privacy.net> writes
>>Job done. Called Tiscali cancellations (well, retentions actually), my call >>will be answered in 2 minutes (yeh right). >>Nearly 15 minutes later I was speaking to a nice guy who seemed to be in >>the UK. As expected he tried to retain me with an offer
> Care to share what the offer was?
+1 - I'm twitching towards some sort of change, but can't atm as some friends satying here are using my address for e-mail. Soon as they've gone... -- Peter. The head of a pin will hold more angels if it's been flattened with an angel-grinder.
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