Conservatives' predictable cry of voter fraud -- will the media fall for baseless accusations again? November 03, 2009 5:05 pm ET
Comments
M E M O R A N D U M
To: Interested Parties
From: Ari Rabin-Havt, Media Matters for America
Re: Conservatives' predictable cry of voter fraud -- will the media fall for baseless accusations again?
Date: Tuesday, November 3, 2009
In covering today's gubernatorial election in New Jersey, media conservatives have already begun to lay the groundwork to undermine Gov. Jon Corzine's potential victory by returning to what has become a predictable pattern: baseless accusations of voter fraud. Both Andrew Breitbart's BigGovernment.com and Wall Street Journal columnist John Fund -- who has literally written the book on crying voter fraud -- claimed that Garden State Democrats were attempting to "steal" the election from Republican candidate Chris Christie, offering no evidence to back up these allegations other than anonymous sources and blatant falsehoods.
Conservatives crying voter fraud is nothing new. And in previous instances, a number of media outlets actually covered these allegations, ignoring the much more serious problems of voter disenfranchisement and voter suppression. In 2008, for example, media outlets barely touched on reported instances of mass voter suppression in several swing states but jumped on claims that ACORN submitted fraudulent voter registrations. And already, there are reports of police being called to polling sites in New York's 23rd district to respond to "overzealous electioneering" by supporters of Doug Hoffman.
Voter fraud is a serious allegation and one that deserves media attention. However, unless conservatives can produce actual evidence to support their claims, media figures should call this what it is: a documented pattern of crying wolf.
Conservative media baselessly cry voter fraud in New Jersey gubernatorial race:
* BigGovernment baselessly -- and predictably -- accuses progressives of trying to "steal" NJ gubernatorial race
SUMMARY: Continuing the conservative media's pattern of baselessly accusing progressives of using illegal means to win elections, Andrew Breitbart's website BigGovernment.com suggested that New Jersey Gov. Jon Corzine's re-election campaign and its allies are planning to "rig" or "steal" the upcoming election. BigGovernment.com offered no evidence to support that claim, instead offering allegations including that "state democrats are paying for robo calls supporting Independent Chris Daggett" and citing "the sudden appearance of ACORN on the scene."
* John Fund fabricates evidence of voter fraud in NJ
SUMMARY: Appearing on Fox News' Glenn Beck, John Fund claimed that Hispanic voters in Camden, New Jersey, are being told that there is "a new way for you to vote, la nueva forma de votar" -- an anecdote Fund suggested was evidence of voter fraud in the state's 2009 gubernatorial election. In fact -- as Fund himself wrote in a Wall Street Journal column published hours earlier -- that incident actually occurred in Philadelphia in 1993, not in New Jersey in 2009.
* John Fund's anonymously sourced voter fraud innuendo
EXCERPT: In the third sentence of his 1,220-word innuendo-filled column warning of voter fraud in the New Jersey gubernatorial election, The Wall Street Journal's John Fund wrote that "if serious allegations of fraud emerge, you can also expect less-than-vigorous investigation by the Obama Justice Department." The key word there is "if." Fund was obviously unable to come up with any actual "serious allegations" of voter fraud, so Fund -- as he has almost every cycle -- made a series of unserious fraud insinuations that are unconstrained by actual facts.
Media have a history of ignoring actual cases of voter suppression:
* USA Today cited "accusations of voter fraud and voter suppression" but omitted examples of voter suppression
SUMMARY: USA Today reported, "Less than three weeks before the November election, the Democratic and Republican presidential campaigns are trading accusations of voter fraud and voter suppression and gearing up for possible court battles over the outcome." The rest of USA Today's report focused on allegations that ACORN demonstrated "a pattern of submitting fraudulent voter registrations," providing no examples of allegations of voter suppression, even though there have been numerous reported instances in battleground states.
* ABC World News reported on ACORN but ignored voter suppression, including indictment of GOP official in NH case
SUMMARY: On World News, Jake Tapper reported on "accusations of voter fraud" against ACORN workers, noting that "ACORN officials said the primary problem isn't a few phony names on voter registrations, but real voters being prevented from casting their ballots." But World News did not report on the indictment of former RNC official James Tobin and in the past two weeks has not aired any reports on the issue of voter suppression.
-- Slavery: The belief that people can be property Corporatism: The belief that property can be people.
>Conservatives' predictable cry of voter fraud -- will the media fall for >baseless accusations again? >November 03, 2009 5:05 pm ET
>Comments
>M E M O R A N D U M
>To: loserleftists
>From: Ari Rabin-Havt, Mediasplatters for losers
>Re: Conservatives' predictable cry of voter fraud -- will the media fall >for baseless accusations again?
>Date: Tuesday, November 3, 2009
>In covering today's gubernatorial election in New Jersey, media >conservatives have already begun to lay the groundwork to undermine Gov. >Jon Corzine's potential victory ......... <snip>
Whoops... now the Leftists will start howling about voter fraud since they did lose..... hahahahaha
--
Contrary to what liberals are whining, nobody owes you anything.
> >Conservatives' predictable cry of voter fraud -- will the media fall for > >baseless accusations again? > >November 03, 2009 5:05 pm ET
> >Comments
> >M E M O R A N D U M
> >To: loserleftists
> >From: Ari Rabin-Havt, Mediasplatters for losers
> >Re: Conservatives' predictable cry of voter fraud -- will the media fall > >for baseless accusations again?
> >Date: Tuesday, November 3, 2009
> >In covering today's gubernatorial election in New Jersey, media > >conservatives have already begun to lay the groundwork to undermine Gov. > >Jon Corzine's potential victory ......... <snip>
> Whoops... now the Leftists will start howling about voter fraud > since they did lose..... hahahahaha
And the arrogant, leftwing voices of January become the little lambs of November.
On Wed, 04 Nov 2009 06:55:30 -0700, smorgas wrote: > On Wed, 4 Nov 2009 04:25:08 -0800 (PST), Kurt Nicklas > <nickl...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>>And the arrogant, leftwing voices of January become the little lambs of >>November.
> Speaking of "lambs"----remember how we used to slaughter you every day, > Nickkkers
> Until you started getting drunk and making crank calls
> Hmm?
I wonder why the little strutman is crowing. Sure, the GOP won two governorships. One had been Republican for years until a conservative Democrat was elected, and in the other, the Republican just barely held on after a 20 point lead to beat the corrupt Democrat by five points.
In the meantime, voters gave right wingers a sharp smack on the snout in NY's 23rd, elected the Democrat Owens despite millions of dollars and Sarah Palin and Rush Limbaugh and just about every big name right wing shitball in the country supporting the right winger. That wasn't supposed to happen.
And in California, a moderate right district elected a progressive, John Garamandi.
They can spin it all they want, but the fact is, they won one they were SUPPOSED to win, nearly lost another they were supposed to win, and DID lose two they were supposed to win.
On Nov 4, 9:34 am, "5265 Dead, 398 since 1/20/09" <d...@dead.com> wrote:
> I wonder why the little strutman is crowing. Sure, the GOP won two > governorships. One had been Republican for years until a conservative > Democrat was elected, and in the other, the Republican just barely held > on after a 20 point lead to beat the corrupt Democrat by five points.
Corzine wasn't corrupt, although most of NJ's Democrat Party is -- over 40 Dems were arrested a few weeks back. No, Corzine is just incompetent and a tool of the unions... in short, a typical liberal. NJ is as blue as a summer sky, but enough Dems woke up in time to throw the bum out.
> In the meantime, voters gave right wingers a sharp smack on the snout in > NY's 23rd, elected the Democrat Owens despite millions of dollars and > Sarah Palin and Rush Limbaugh and just about every big name right wing > shitball in the country supporting the right winger. That wasn't > supposed to happen.
WTF? Are you high? The way it happened in *this* universe was that Palin etc. supported Scozzafava until she came out as a RINO. When she dropped out she threw her support to the *Democrat.* She's no "right winger," chump, she's a self-professed RINO, the kind you leftists (pretend to) love. *Kos* endorsed her, fer chrissake.
> They can spin it all they want,
The way *you're* spinning, chump, I'm surprised you don't drill down through the floor.
> but the fact is, they won one they were > SUPPOSED to win, nearly lost another they were supposed to win,
Name three analysts who claimed Christie was "SUPPOSED to win."
> and DID lose two they were supposed to win.
Who sez? You just keep spinning and making shit up. "But the fact is" that this is a disaster for ObamaCare and cap-and-bankrupt.
On Wed, 04 Nov 2009 09:41:51 -0700, smorgas wrote: > On Wed, 04 Nov 2009 08:34:46 -0600, "5265 Dead, 398 since 1/20/09" > <d...@dead.com> wrote:
>>On Wed, 04 Nov 2009 06:55:30 -0700, smorgas wrote:
>>> On Wed, 4 Nov 2009 04:25:08 -0800 (PST), Kurt Nicklas >>> <nickl...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>>>>And the arrogant, leftwing voices of January become the little lambs >>>>of November.
>>> Speaking of "lambs"----remember how we used to slaughter you every >>> day, Nickkkers
>>> Until you started getting drunk and making crank calls
>>> Hmm?
>>I wonder why the little strutman is crowing. Sure, the GOP won two >>governorships. One had been Republican for years until a conservative >>Democrat was elected, and in the other, the Republican just barely held >>on after a 20 point lead to beat the corrupt Democrat by five points.
>>In the meantime, voters gave right wingers a sharp smack on the snout in >>NY's 23rd, elected the Democrat Owens despite millions of dollars and >>Sarah Palin and Rush Limbaugh and just about every big name right wing >>shitball in the country supporting the right winger. That wasn't >>supposed to happen.
>>And in California, a moderate right district elected a progressive, John >>Garamandi.
>>They can spin it all they want, but the fact is, they won one they were >>SUPPOSED to win, nearly lost another they were supposed to win, and DID >>lose two they were supposed to win.
> The hilarious part is---not one change in GOP policy, program, or agenda > has been in evidence in the last 2 years
> Obstruction of Democratic legislation has been their focus---not of any > alternative
> Neut Gingrich and other GOP talking heads, to a person, all talk about > "crafting a new message" to sell the old "pig"
In fact, when the GOP put up their new website last month, under "major accomplishments" they didn't have anything that was less than four years old.
On Nov 4, 11:25 am, Rick Saunders <retro_...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Nov 4, 9:34 am, "5265 Dead, 398 since 1/20/09" <d...@dead.com> > wrote:
> > I wonder why the little strutman is crowing. Sure, the GOP won two > > governorships. One had been Republican for years until a conservative > > Democrat was elected, and in the other, the Republican just barely held > > on after a 20 point lead to beat the corrupt Democrat by five points.
> Corzine wasn't corrupt, although most of NJ's Democrat Party is -- > over > 40 Dems were arrested a few weeks back.
Not a resident of NJ myself, thanks for pointing that factoid out. That definitely explains the loss of that governorship. When a number such as 40 arrests are made, that party has a long way to go to repair its image.
The governorship could have been saved had Obama not prevented a complete investigation of the Bush/Cheney administration.
> No, Corzine is just > incompetent > and a tool of the unions... in short, a typical liberal. NJ is as blue > as > a summer sky, but enough Dems woke up in time to throw the bum out.
> > In the meantime, voters gave right wingers a sharp smack on the snout in > > NY's 23rd, elected the Democrat Owens despite millions of dollars and > > Sarah Palin and Rush Limbaugh and just about every big name right wing > > shitball in the country supporting the right winger. That wasn't > > supposed to happen.
> WTF? Are you high? The way it happened in *this* universe was that > Palin etc. supported Scozzafava until she came out as a RINO. When > she dropped out she threw her support to the *Democrat.* She's no > "right winger," chump, she's a self-professed RINO, the kind you > leftists > (pretend to) love. *Kos* endorsed her, fer chrissake.
> > They can spin it all they want,
> The way *you're* spinning, chump, I'm surprised you don't drill down > through the floor.
> > but the fact is, they won one they were > > SUPPOSED to win, nearly lost another they were supposed to win,
> Name three analysts who claimed Christie was "SUPPOSED to win."
> > and DID lose two they were supposed to win.
> Who sez? You just keep spinning and making shit up. "But the fact > is" that this is a disaster for ObamaCare and cap-and-bankrupt.
On Nov 4, 3:34 pm, liberal <liberalh...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Nov 4, 11:25 am, Rick Saunders <retro_...@yahoo.com> wrote: > > Corzine wasn't corrupt, although most of NJ's Democrat Party is -- > > over 40 Dems were arrested a few weeks back.
> Not a resident of NJ myself, thanks for pointing that factoid out. > That definitely explains the loss of that governorship. When a number > such as 40 arrests are made, that party has a long way to go to repair > its image.
> The governorship could have been saved had Obama not prevented a > complete investigation of the Bush/Cheney administration.
You're contradicting yourself. First you concede that NJ's fabled corruption cost the Dems the election, and then reverse yourself with the "Bush/Cheney" bleat.
> On Wed, 04 Nov 2009 08:34:46 -0600, "5265 Dead, 398 > since 1/20/09" <d...@dead.com> wrote:
> >On Wed, 04 Nov 2009 06:55:30 -0700, smorgas wrote:
> >> On Wed, 4 Nov 2009 04:25:08 -0800 (PST), Kurt Nicklas > >> <nickl...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> >>>And the arrogant, leftwing voices of January become the little lambs of > >>>November.
> >> Speaking of "lambs"----remember how we used to slaughter you every day, > >> Nickkkers
> >> Until you started getting drunk and making crank calls
> >> Hmm?
> >I wonder why the little strutman is crowing. Sure, the GOP won two > >governorships. One had been Republican for years until a conservative > >Democrat was elected, and in the other, the Republican just barely held > >on after a 20 point lead to beat the corrupt Democrat by five points.
> >In the meantime, voters gave right wingers a sharp smack on the snout in > >NY's 23rd, elected the Democrat Owens despite millions of dollars and > >Sarah Palin and Rush Limbaugh and just about every big name right wing > >shitball in the country supporting the right winger. That wasn't > >supposed to happen.
> >And in California, a moderate right district elected a progressive, John > >Garamandi.
> >They can spin it all they want, but the fact is, they won one they were > >SUPPOSED to win, nearly lost another they were supposed to win, and DID > >lose two they were supposed to win.
> The hilarious part is---not one change in GOP policy, > program, or agenda has been in evidence in the last 2 > years
> Obstruction of Democratic legislation has been their > focus---not of any alternative
> Neut Gingrich and other GOP talking heads, to a person, > all talk about "crafting a new message" to sell the old > "pig"
NY23 is up again in 2010 with the rest of the folks in the House. Can Democrats hold it?
-- What I hate about flip flops is the flip and the flop.
>> On Wed, 04 Nov 2009 08:34:46 -0600, "5265 Dead, 398 since 1/20/09" >> <d...@dead.com> wrote:
>> >On Wed, 04 Nov 2009 06:55:30 -0700, smorgas wrote:
>> >> On Wed, 4 Nov 2009 04:25:08 -0800 (PST), Kurt Nicklas >> >> <nickl...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>> >>>And the arrogant, leftwing voices of January become the little lambs >> >>>of November.
>> >> Speaking of "lambs"----remember how we used to slaughter you every >> >> day, Nickkkers
>> >> Until you started getting drunk and making crank calls
>> >> Hmm?
>> >I wonder why the little strutman is crowing. Sure, the GOP won two >> >governorships. One had been Republican for years until a conservative >> >Democrat was elected, and in the other, the Republican just barely >> >held on after a 20 point lead to beat the corrupt Democrat by five >> >points.
>> >In the meantime, voters gave right wingers a sharp smack on the snout >> >in NY's 23rd, elected the Democrat Owens despite millions of dollars >> >and Sarah Palin and Rush Limbaugh and just about every big name right >> >wing shitball in the country supporting the right winger. That wasn't >> >supposed to happen.
>> >And in California, a moderate right district elected a progressive, >> >John Garamandi.
>> >They can spin it all they want, but the fact is, they won one they >> >were SUPPOSED to win, nearly lost another they were supposed to win, >> >and DID lose two they were supposed to win.
>> The hilarious part is---not one change in GOP policy, program, or >> agenda has been in evidence in the last 2 years
>> Obstruction of Democratic legislation has been their focus---not of any >> alternative
>> Neut Gingrich and other GOP talking heads, to a person, all talk about >> "crafting a new message" to sell the old "pig"
> NY23 is up again in 2010 with the rest of the folks in the House. Can > Democrats hold it?
Discussion subject changed to "#Right wingers start howling about voter fraud in case theylose" by Bill Bonde { 'by a commodius vicus of recirculation' )
Bill Bonde { 'by a commodius vicus of recirculation' )
> >> >> On Wed, 4 Nov 2009 04:25:08 -0800 (PST), Kurt Nicklas > >> >> <nickl...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> >> >>>And the arrogant, leftwing voices of January become the little lambs > >> >>>of November.
> >> >> Speaking of "lambs"----remember how we used to slaughter you every > >> >> day, Nickkkers
> >> >> Until you started getting drunk and making crank calls
> >> >> Hmm?
> >> >I wonder why the little strutman is crowing. Sure, the GOP won two > >> >governorships. One had been Republican for years until a conservative > >> >Democrat was elected, and in the other, the Republican just barely > >> >held on after a 20 point lead to beat the corrupt Democrat by five > >> >points.
> >> >In the meantime, voters gave right wingers a sharp smack on the snout > >> >in NY's 23rd, elected the Democrat Owens despite millions of dollars > >> >and Sarah Palin and Rush Limbaugh and just about every big name right > >> >wing shitball in the country supporting the right winger. That wasn't > >> >supposed to happen.
> >> >And in California, a moderate right district elected a progressive, > >> >John Garamandi.
> >> >They can spin it all they want, but the fact is, they won one they > >> >were SUPPOSED to win, nearly lost another they were supposed to win, > >> >and DID lose two they were supposed to win.
> >> The hilarious part is---not one change in GOP policy, program, or > >> agenda has been in evidence in the last 2 years
> >> Obstruction of Democratic legislation has been their focus---not of any > >> alternative
> >> Neut Gingrich and other GOP talking heads, to a person, all talk about > >> "crafting a new message" to sell the old "pig"
> > NY23 is up again in 2010 with the rest of the folks in the House. Can > > Democrats hold it?
> Be sure to let us know, Bill.
It'll be in the papers in a year, if any are still around.
-- What I hate about flip flops is the flip and the flop.
> From: "Bill Bonde { 'by a commodius vicus of recirculation' )" > <tribuyltinfp...@yahoo.co.uk> > Organization: Our legacy is not the lives we lived but the lives we leave to > those who come after us. > Newsgroups: > alt.society.liberalism,talk.politics.misc,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.activis m.d > eath-penalty > Date: Thu, 05 Nov 2009 04:29:26 +0000 > Subject: Re: #Right wingers start howling about voter fraud in case they lose
> NY23 is up again in 2010 with the rest of the folks in the House. > Can Democrats hold it?
Only if the Republicans run another rabid rightwinger.
On 5/11/09 18:10, in article 4AF306FC.C5F57...@yahoo.co.uk, "Bill Bonde { 'by a commodius vicus of recirculation' )" <tribuyltinfp...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>> NY23 is up again in 2010 with the rest of the folks in the House. Can >>> Democrats hold it?
>> Be sure to let us know, Bill.
> It'll be in the papers in a year, if any are still around.
Usually (1998 was an exception) the midterms elections generates a loss of the governing party, so it would not be exceptional if the Democrats lost 20 seats. We have a 258-177 split now so a shift of 20 yields a 238-197 split, still Democratic.
Right now I expect that kind of shift.
The Republicans problem is if they fully go over to ultras and they lose votes of middle-of-the-road Republicans to either the center or in some cases to the Democrats.
Right now one sees a Goldwater fiasco developing with the party of Lincoln become the part of Rush Limbaugh.
Discussion subject changed to "#Right wingers start howling about voter fraud in casetheylose" by Bill Bonde { 'by a commodius vicus of recirculation' )
Bill Bonde { 'by a commodius vicus of recirculation' )
> On 5/11/09 18:10, in article 4AF306FC.C5F57...@yahoo.co.uk, "Bill Bonde { > 'by a commodius vicus of recirculation' )" <tribuyltinfp...@yahoo.co.uk> > wrote:
> >>> NY23 is up again in 2010 with the rest of the folks in the House. Can > >>> Democrats hold it?
> >> Be sure to let us know, Bill.
> > It'll be in the papers in a year, if any are still around.
> Usually (1998 was an exception) the midterms elections generates > a loss of the governing party, so it would not be exceptional > if the Democrats lost 20 seats. We have a 258-177 split now > so a shift of 20 yields a 238-197 split, still Democratic.
I think that while it is true that the side with the White House tends to shed seats in off years, the number is what matters.
> Right now I expect that kind of shift.
> The Republicans problem is if they fully go over to ultras > and they lose votes of middle-of-the-road Republicans > to either the center or in some cases to the Democrats.
> Right now one sees a Goldwater fiasco developing > with the party of Lincoln become the part of Rush > Limbaugh.
Since NY23 didn't go for the Republicans, it's up again in 2010, I expect this means a moderation from Republicans as they put forth candidates who rightly seek the centre.
-- What I hate about flip flops is the flip and the flop.
Discussion subject changed to "#Right wingers start howling about voter fraud in case theylose" by Bill Bonde { 'by a commodius vicus of recirculation' )
Bill Bonde { 'by a commodius vicus of recirculation' )
> > From: "Bill Bonde { 'by a commodius vicus of recirculation' )" > > <tribuyltinfp...@yahoo.co.uk> > > Organization: Our legacy is not the lives we lived but the lives we leave to > > those who come after us. > > Newsgroups: > > alt.society.liberalism,talk.politics.misc,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.activis m.d > > eath-penalty > > Date: Thu, 05 Nov 2009 04:29:26 +0000 > > Subject: Re: #Right wingers start howling about voter fraud in case they lose
> > NY23 is up again in 2010 with the rest of the folks in the House. > > Can Democrats hold it?
> Only if the Republicans run another rabid rightwinger.
So you agree that the jubilation, Pelosi claims "We won", is a bit overblown?
-- What I hate about flip flops is the flip and the flop.
On 5/11/09 18:45, in article 4AF30F3B.10D63...@yahoo.co.uk, "Bill Bonde { 'by a commodius vicus of recirculation' )" <tribuyltinfp...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> Since NY23 didn't go for the Republicans, it's up again in 2010, I > expect this means a moderation from Republicans as they put forth > candidates who rightly seek the centre.
I don't, I think the ultras will play for power and rip apart fellow Republicans who are moderate. For me it looks like another Goldwater redux
> On 5/11/09 18:45, in article 4AF30F3B.10D63...@yahoo.co.uk, "Bill Bonde { > 'by a commodius vicus of recirculation' )" <tribuyltinfp...@yahoo.co.uk> > wrote:
> > Since NY23 didn't go for the Republicans, it's up again in 2010, I > > expect this means a moderation from Republicans as they put forth > > candidates who rightly seek the centre.
> I don't, I think the ultras will play for power and rip > apart fellow Republicans who are moderate. For > me it looks like another Goldwater redux
Goldwater wasn't very extreme at all.
-- What I hate about flip flops is the flip and the flop.
Bill Bonde { 'by a commodius vicus of recirculation' ) wrote:
> Earl Evleth wrote: >> On 5/11/09 18:45, in article 4AF30F3B.10D63...@yahoo.co.uk, "Bill Bonde { >> 'by a commodius vicus of recirculation' )" <tribuyltinfp...@yahoo.co.uk> >> wrote:
>>> Since NY23 didn't go for the Republicans, it's up again in 2010, I >>> expect this means a moderation from Republicans as they put forth >>> candidates who rightly seek the centre. >> I don't, I think the ultras will play for power and rip >> apart fellow Republicans who are moderate. For >> me it looks like another Goldwater redux
> Goldwater wasn't very extreme at all.
Compared with the Republicans of today he wasn't but in his time he was. As you probably weren't born prior to 1964 what do you know?
> Bill Bonde { 'by a commodius vicus of recirculation' ) wrote:
> > Earl Evleth wrote: > >> On 5/11/09 18:45, in article 4AF30F3B.10D63...@yahoo.co.uk, "Bill Bonde { > >> 'by a commodius vicus of recirculation' )" <tribuyltinfp...@yahoo.co.uk> > >> wrote:
> >>> Since NY23 didn't go for the Republicans, it's up again in 2010, I > >>> expect this means a moderation from Republicans as they put forth > >>> candidates who rightly seek the centre. > >> I don't, I think the ultras will play for power and rip > >> apart fellow Republicans who are moderate. For > >> me it looks like another Goldwater redux
> > Goldwater wasn't very extreme at all.
> Compared with the Republicans of today he wasn't > but in his time he was. As you probably weren't born > prior to 1964 what do you know?
So we shouldn't discuss the Middle Ages because you were still a tot?
-- What I hate about flip flops is the flip and the flop.
>> On 5/11/09 18:10, in article 4AF306FC.C5F57...@yahoo.co.uk, "Bill Bonde >> { 'by a commodius vicus of recirculation' )" >> <tribuyltinfp...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>> >>> NY23 is up again in 2010 with the rest of the folks in the House. >> >>> Can Democrats hold it?
>> >> Be sure to let us know, Bill.
>> > It'll be in the papers in a year, if any are still around.
>> Usually (1998 was an exception) the midterms elections generates a loss >> of the governing party, so it would not be exceptional if the Democrats >> lost 20 seats. We have a 258-177 split now so a shift of 20 yields a >> 238-197 split, still Democratic.
> I think that while it is true that the side with the White House tends > to shed seats in off years, the number is what matters.
>> Right now I expect that kind of shift.
>> The Republicans problem is if they fully go over to ultras and they >> lose votes of middle-of-the-road Republicans to either the center or in >> some cases to the Democrats.
>> Right now one sees a Goldwater fiasco developing with the party of >> Lincoln become the part of Rush Limbaugh.
> Since NY23 didn't go for the Republicans, it's up again in 2010, I > expect this means a moderation from Republicans as they put forth > candidates who rightly seek the centre.
If the GOP hasn't been completely taken over by the right wing crazies, that would be the way to bet.
> From: "Bill Bonde { 'by a commodius vicus of recirculation' )" > <tribuyltinfp...@yahoo.co.uk> > Organization: Our legacy is not the lives we lived but the lives we leave to > those who come after us. > Newsgroups: > alt.society.liberalism,talk.politics.misc,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.activis m.d > eath-penalty > Date: Thu, 05 Nov 2009 18:26:54 +0000 > Subject: Re: #Right wingers start howling about voter fraud in casetheylose
> Earl Evleth wrote:
>> On 5/11/09 18:45, in article 4AF30F3B.10D63...@yahoo.co.uk, "Bill Bonde { >> 'by a commodius vicus of recirculation' )" <tribuyltinfp...@yahoo.co.uk> >> wrote:
>>> Since NY23 didn't go for the Republicans, it's up again in 2010, I >>> expect this means a moderation from Republicans as they put forth >>> candidates who rightly seek the centre.
>> I don't, I think the ultras will play for power and rip >> apart fellow Republicans who are moderate. For >> me it looks like another Goldwater redux
> Goldwater wasn't very extreme at all.
In hindsight, he looks quite tame, considering the types that have come down the road since. Also Goldwater himself mellowed with time. But in 1964, he looked very extreme, which is why Johnson won by a landslide.
> > From: "Bill Bonde { 'by a commodius vicus of recirculation' )" > > <tribuyltinfp...@yahoo.co.uk> > > Organization: Our legacy is not the lives we lived but the lives we leave to > > those who come after us. > > Newsgroups: > > alt.society.liberalism,talk.politics.misc,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.activis m.d > > eath-penalty > > Date: Thu, 05 Nov 2009 18:26:54 +0000 > > Subject: Re: #Right wingers start howling about voter fraud in casetheylose
> > Earl Evleth wrote:
> >> On 5/11/09 18:45, in article 4AF30F3B.10D63...@yahoo.co.uk, "Bill Bonde { > >> 'by a commodius vicus of recirculation' )" <tribuyltinfp...@yahoo.co.uk> > >> wrote:
> >>> Since NY23 didn't go for the Republicans, it's up again in 2010, I > >>> expect this means a moderation from Republicans as they put forth > >>> candidates who rightly seek the centre.
> >> I don't, I think the ultras will play for power and rip > >> apart fellow Republicans who are moderate. For > >> me it looks like another Goldwater redux
> > Goldwater wasn't very extreme at all.
> In hindsight, he looks quite tame, considering the types that have come down > the road since.
Just like with Reagan, Democrats attempted to attribute nuclear war to him. But neither Reagan nor Goldwater were extreme.
> Also Goldwater himself mellowed with time. But in 1964, he > looked very extreme, which is why Johnson won by a landslide.
He allowed himself to be seen that way. And the Democrats are just dishonest enough to try to make it look like someone is what they aren't.
-- What I hate about flip flops is the flip and the flop.
>> From: "Bill Bonde { 'by a commodius vicus of recirculation' )" >> <tribuyltinfp...@yahoo.co.uk> >> Organization: Our legacy is not the lives we lived but the lives we leave to >> those who come after us. >> Newsgroups: >> alt.society.liberalism,talk.politics.misc,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.activis m.d >> eath-penalty >> Date: Thu, 05 Nov 2009 18:26:54 +0000 >> Subject: Re: #Right wingers start howling about voter fraud in casetheylose
>> Earl Evleth wrote: >>> On 5/11/09 18:45, in article 4AF30F3B.10D63...@yahoo.co.uk, "Bill Bonde { >>> 'by a commodius vicus of recirculation' )" <tribuyltinfp...@yahoo.co.uk> >>> wrote:
>>>> Since NY23 didn't go for the Republicans, it's up again in 2010, I >>>> expect this means a moderation from Republicans as they put forth >>>> candidates who rightly seek the centre. >>> I don't, I think the ultras will play for power and rip >>> apart fellow Republicans who are moderate. For >>> me it looks like another Goldwater redux
>> Goldwater wasn't very extreme at all.
> In hindsight, he looks quite tame, considering the types that have come down > the road since. Also Goldwater himself mellowed with time. But in 1964, he > looked very extreme, which is why Johnson won by a landslide.
> Donna Evleth
I always liked him. I well remember a commentator saying that for a Jew to be President he would have to be an Episcopalian which surprisingly enough Goldwater was.
>> From: "Bill Bonde { 'by a commodius vicus of recirculation' )" >> <tribuyltinfp...@yahoo.co.uk> >> Organization: Our legacy is not the lives we lived but the lives we leave to >> those who come after us. >> Newsgroups: >> alt.society.liberalism,talk.politics.misc,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.activis m.d >> eath-penalty >> Date: Thu, 05 Nov 2009 18:26:54 +0000 >> Subject: Re: #Right wingers start howling about voter fraud in casetheylose
>> Earl Evleth wrote: >>> On 5/11/09 18:45, in article 4AF30F3B.10D63...@yahoo.co.uk, "Bill Bonde { >>> 'by a commodius vicus of recirculation' )" <tribuyltinfp...@yahoo.co.uk> >>> wrote:
>>>> Since NY23 didn't go for the Republicans, it's up again in 2010, I >>>> expect this means a moderation from Republicans as they put forth >>>> candidates who rightly seek the centre. >>> I don't, I think the ultras will play for power and rip >>> apart fellow Republicans who are moderate. For >>> me it looks like another Goldwater redux
>> Goldwater wasn't very extreme at all.
> In hindsight, he looks quite tame, considering the types that have come down > the road since. Also Goldwater himself mellowed with time. But in 1964, he > looked very extreme, which is why Johnson won by a landslide.
> Donna Evleth
Johnson won by a landslide because Kennedy had been assassinated and because the US was at war. Very similar to the reasons why Bush won in 2004; that's after 9/11 and the country was at war. The natural reaction of any population is to 'stand by your man' in times of trouble. I don't want diminish Johnson's excellent record in getting rid of 'Jim Crow' something I don't believe the Kennedys would have achieved.
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