Discussion subject changed to "Ft. Hood dead...Iraq war...blowback , or act of patriotism to stop unwinable ILLEGAL wars ASAP by attacking the REAL terrorists" by kangarooistan
On Nov 7, 10:54 am, "Dr. Vincent Quin, Ph.D." <d...@coldine.edu> wrote:
> "We told you so"
> ...and no end in sight...stupidity...
Nidal Malik Hasan, is a HERO , he honored his pledge to DEFEND AMERICA from terrorists
Fort Hood Shooting Suspect Harassed By Others In Military and Wanted Out, Family Said
Fort Hood shooting suspect, Major Nidal Malik Hasan, wanted out of the Army after being constantly harassed by others in the military and was called a "camel jockey," his family said. Share Maj. Nidal Malik Hasan is a psychiatrist who treated soldiers back from war. in his own mind that he's saving peoples' lives," said Garrett. "As illogical as that sounds, in his mind, that would be quite logical."
As Hasan was about to be deployed to Iraq, he was suffering from some of the same stresses that he was trained as an Army psychiatrist to treat.
Although the 39-year-old had just been promoted to major in May, his family says he had hired a lawyer to help him get out of the Armed Forces.
"Apparently became very disgruntled in the mission in Iraq and Afghanistan and voiced that to a lot of his colleagues," said Rep. Michael McCaul (R-TX).
He also voiced it to the world in an Internet posting, where he compared suicide bombers to GI's who save their colleagues by throwing themselves on a grenade.
"Just keep in mind mass killers pretty much know they want to die and they tend to take as many people with them as they can in a shooting," said former FBI agent and ABC News consultant Brad Garrett, who also believes Hasan didn't want to survive the Ft. Hood shooting.
"It is one of those things where he went and wanted to kill a lot of people and commit suicide maybe in his own mind that he's saving peoples' lives," said Garrett. "As illogical as that sounds, in his mind, that would be quite logical."
kangarooistan wrote: > On Nov 7, 10:54 am, "Dr. Vincent Quin, Ph.D." <d...@coldine.edu> > wrote: >> "We told you so"
>> ...and no end in sight...stupidity...
> Nidal Malik Hasan, is a HERO , he honored his pledge to DEFEND AMERICA > from terrorists
> Fort Hood Shooting Suspect Harassed By Others In Military and Wanted > Out, Family Said
All he had to do was resign his commission. If he had been compensated for education etc. He would have to pay that back. There is more then meets the eye here. Apparently he became a religious fanatic who with malice of forethought brought weaponry to kill unarmed soldiers. The act of a Coward! Being a Muslim, it must really burn his buns to be gunned down by a Female infidel. Maybe she should have been firing silver bullets against the evils of the Murderous Islamics. When he gets well enough to be incarcerated, they will have to keep him in Isolation. The other prisoners will be clamoring for the right to butt fuck him and to cut him to ribbons in retaliation for his crimes. Islam is an insane religion that caters to the very ignorant and uneducated. Actually most religions are designed to control and direct fools.
> Fort Hood shooting suspect, Major Nidal Malik Hasan, wanted out of the > Army after being constantly harassed by others in the military and was > called a "camel jockey," his family said.
Yeah, Right..The Jews were called "Kikes", The Italians called "Guinies" and "Wops", The Germans "Krauts" and "Huns", the English called " Limeys", The French called "Frogs" The Irish called " Micks" The orientals called "Slopes", "Chinks", "Gooks" etc... Big fucking deal. It is just part of the military and nobody really gives a crap. This Arab had been in service quite a number of years and knew the vernacular used very well. In fact, he probably did the same to others. In the field all these cutsie names watched each others backs and were literally a band of brothers.
> Share > Maj. Nidal Malik Hasan is a psychiatrist who treated soldiers back > from war. in his own mind that he's saving peoples' lives," said > Garrett. "As illogical as that sounds, in his mind, that would be > quite logical."
> As Hasan was about to be deployed to Iraq, he was suffering from some > of the same stresses that he was trained as an Army psychiatrist to > treat.
He was a shrink..He sure as Hell wasn't suffering combat fatigue. What he did was unforgivable and an asshole like you should be made an example of, for encouraging more of the same.
> Although the 39-year-old had just been promoted to major in May, his > family says he had hired a lawyer to help him get out of the Armed > Forces.
He didn't need a lawyer. He can resign his commision at any time.
> "Apparently became very disgruntled in the mission in Iraq and > Afghanistan and voiced that to a lot of his colleagues," said Rep. > Michael McCaul (R-TX).
> He also voiced it to the world in an Internet posting, where he > compared suicide bombers to GI's who save their colleagues by throwing > themselves on a grenade.
> "Just keep in mind mass killers pretty much know they want to die and > they tend to take as many people with them as they can in a shooting," > said former FBI agent and ABC News consultant Brad Garrett, who also > believes Hasan didn't want to survive the Ft. Hood shooting.
> "It is one of those things where he went and wanted to kill a lot of > people and commit suicide maybe in his own mind that he's saving > peoples' lives," said Garrett. "As illogical as that sounds, in his > mind, that would be quite logical."
Interesting logic and a new legal theory has just emerged.
Let me see if I've grasped the gist of this logic thought and legal theory - if one gets "harassed" at work or school or anywhere else for that matter, the mitigating factor in the defense is the fact that the person was "harassed" and therefore justified for the criminal behavior post facto. Interesting logic. Kind of kindergartenish, I would say but interesting.
kangarooistan wrote: > On Nov 7, 10:54 am, "Dr. Vincent Quin, Ph.D." <d...@coldine.edu> > wrote: >> "We told you so"
>> ...and no end in sight...stupidity...
> Nidal Malik Hasan, is a HERO , he honored his pledge to DEFEND AMERICA > from terrorists
> Fort Hood Shooting Suspect Harassed By Others In Military and Wanted > Out, Family Said
> Fort Hood shooting suspect, Major Nidal Malik Hasan, wanted out of the > Army after being constantly harassed by others in the military and was > called a "camel jockey," his family said. > Share > Maj. Nidal Malik Hasan is a psychiatrist who treated soldiers back > from war. in his own mind that he's saving peoples' lives," said > Garrett. "As illogical as that sounds, in his mind, that would be > quite logical."
> As Hasan was about to be deployed to Iraq, he was suffering from some > of the same stresses that he was trained as an Army psychiatrist to > treat.
> Although the 39-year-old had just been promoted to major in May, his > family says he had hired a lawyer to help him get out of the Armed > Forces.
> "Apparently became very disgruntled in the mission in Iraq and > Afghanistan and voiced that to a lot of his colleagues," said Rep. > Michael McCaul (R-TX).
> He also voiced it to the world in an Internet posting, where he > compared suicide bombers to GI's who save their colleagues by throwing > themselves on a grenade.
> "Just keep in mind mass killers pretty much know they want to die and > they tend to take as many people with them as they can in a shooting," > said former FBI agent and ABC News consultant Brad Garrett, who also > believes Hasan didn't want to survive the Ft. Hood shooting.
> "It is one of those things where he went and wanted to kill a lot of > people and commit suicide maybe in his own mind that he's saving > peoples' lives," said Garrett. "As illogical as that sounds, in his > mind, that would be quite logical."
The military spends a bundle educating all those "medical professionals" it turns out of the Department of Defense College of Medical Quackery. Because it spends all that money, they make it virtually impossible for a "graduate" to opt out of their contract and contractual agreement until every second of the contract is served.
You know the "don't ask, don't tell" rule? Forget about it with this bunch. One of these guys or gals can be absolutely openly homosexual, doing homosexual acts in public, and not a word will ever be uttered.
One of these guys or gals could walk up to his or her commander and piss on them in front of the Chief of Staff or the Chief of Naval Operations and not an eye would be blinked.
Come to work drunk? No problem for these guys and gals.
Be a druggie, stealing drugs out of the hospital or clinic pharmacy? No big deal for them.
Rape, pillage, plunder? Par for the course as far as these guys and gals are concerned.
You don't think this is true? Research the issue. I know for a fact it is. DOD is DESPERATE to keep them on Active Duty. Therefore NO RULES apply to them.
>Alexander wrote: > kangarooistan wrote: >> On Nov 7, 10:54 am, "Dr. Vincent Quin, Ph.D." <d...@coldine.edu> >> wrote: >>> "We told you so"
>>> ...and no end in sight...stupidity...
>> Nidal Malik Hasan, is a HERO , he honored his pledge to DEFEND AMERICA >> from terrorists
>> Fort Hood Shooting Suspect Harassed By Others In Military and Wanted >> Out, Family Said
> All he had to do was resign his commission. If he had been compensated > for education etc. He would have to pay that back. There is more then > meets the eye here. Apparently he became a religious fanatic who with > malice of forethought brought weaponry to kill unarmed soldiers. The act > of a Coward! Being a Muslim, it must really burn his buns to be gunned > down by a Female infidel. Maybe she should have been firing silver > bullets against the evils of the Murderous Islamics. When he gets well > enough to be incarcerated, they will have to keep him in Isolation. The > other prisoners will be clamoring for the right to butt fuck him and to > cut him to ribbons in retaliation for his crimes. Islam is an insane > religion that caters to the very ignorant and uneducated. Actually most > religions are designed to control and direct fools.
>> Fort Hood shooting suspect, Major Nidal Malik Hasan, wanted out of the >> Army after being constantly harassed by others in the military and was >> called a "camel jockey," his family said.
> Yeah, Right..The Jews were called "Kikes", The Italians called "Guinies" > and "Wops", The Germans "Krauts" and "Huns", the English called " > Limeys", The French called "Frogs" The Irish called " Micks" The > orientals called "Slopes", "Chinks", "Gooks" etc... Big fucking deal. > It is just part of the military and nobody really gives a crap. This > Arab had been in service quite a number of years and knew the vernacular > used very well. In fact, he probably did the same to others. In the > field all these cutsie names watched each others backs and were > literally a band of brothers.
>> Share >> Maj. Nidal Malik Hasan is a psychiatrist who treated soldiers back >> from war. in his own mind that he's saving peoples' lives," said >> Garrett. "As illogical as that sounds, in his mind, that would be >> quite logical."
>> As Hasan was about to be deployed to Iraq, he was suffering from some >> of the same stresses that he was trained as an Army psychiatrist to >> treat.
> He was a shrink..He sure as Hell wasn't suffering combat fatigue. What > he did was unforgivable and an asshole like you should be made an > example of, for encouraging more of the same.
>> Although the 39-year-old had just been promoted to major in May, his >> family says he had hired a lawyer to help him get out of the Armed >> Forces.
> He didn't need a lawyer. He can resign his commision at any time.
>> "Apparently became very disgruntled in the mission in Iraq and >> Afghanistan and voiced that to a lot of his colleagues," said Rep. >> Michael McCaul (R-TX).
>> He also voiced it to the world in an Internet posting, where he >> compared suicide bombers to GI's who save their colleagues by throwing >> themselves on a grenade.
>> "Just keep in mind mass killers pretty much know they want to die and >> they tend to take as many people with them as they can in a shooting," >> said former FBI agent and ABC News consultant Brad Garrett, who also >> believes Hasan didn't want to survive the Ft. Hood shooting.
>> "It is one of those things where he went and wanted to kill a lot of >> people and commit suicide maybe in his own mind that he's saving >> peoples' lives," said Garrett. "As illogical as that sounds, in his >> mind, that would be quite logical."
> On Nov 7, 10:54 am, "Dr. Vincent Quin, Ph.D." <d...@coldine.edu> > wrote:
> > "We told you so"
> > ...and no end in sight...stupidity...
> Nidal Malik Hasan, is a HERO , he honored his pledge to DEFEND AMERICA > from terrorists
> Fort Hood Shooting Suspect Harassed By Others In Military and Wanted > Out, Family Said
> Fort Hood shooting suspect, Major Nidal Malik Hasan, wanted out of the > Army after being constantly harassed by others in the military and was > called a "camel jockey," his family said. > Share > Maj. Nidal Malik Hasan is a psychiatrist who treated soldiers back > from war. in his own mind that he's saving peoples' lives," said > Garrett. "As illogical as that sounds, in his mind, that would be > quite logical."
> As Hasan was about to be deployed to Iraq, he was suffering from some > of the same stresses that he was trained as an Army psychiatrist to > treat.
> Although the 39-year-old had just been promoted to major in May, his > family says he had hired a lawyer to help him get out of the Armed > Forces.
> "Apparently became very disgruntled in the mission in Iraq and > Afghanistan and voiced that to a lot of his colleagues," said Rep. > Michael McCaul (R-TX).
> He also voiced it to the world in an Internet posting, where he > compared suicide bombers to GI's who save their colleagues by throwing > themselves on a grenade.
> "Just keep in mind mass killers pretty much know they want to die and > they tend to take as many people with them as they can in a shooting," > said former FBI agent and ABC News consultant Brad Garrett, who also > believes Hasan didn't want to survive the Ft. Hood shooting.
> "It is one of those things where he went and wanted to kill a lot of > people and commit suicide maybe in his own mind that he's saving > peoples' lives," said Garrett. "As illogical as that sounds, in his > mind, that would be quite logical."
Discussion subject changed to "The U.S. should watch out for soldiers who would bomb or nuke their own troops to revenge like it had done by RVN pilot Nguyen Thanh Trung in 1975" by Ben
Subject: The U.S. should watch out for soldiers who would bomb or nuke their own troops to revenge like it had done by RVN pilot Nguyen Thanh Trung in 1975
Radical Islam pilots or ship captain someday may bomb the US to revenge for the death of their own religious. In 1975, ARVN pilot Nguyen Thanh Trung turned his bomber and dropped his bombs on RVN presidential palace to revenge for his father, a VC guerrilla killed by RVN troops. With nuclear weapons availble the danger will be enormous. After Fort Hood, tt's time for U.S. officials to be alert of another Islamic Nguyen Thanh Trung in U.S. ranks. Major Hasam is just a tip of an iceberg. Visit: http://www.pbs.org/vietnampassage/Stories/stories.trung.01.html
On Nov 6, 6:54 pm, "Dr. Vincent Quin, Ph.D." <d...@coldine.edu> wrote:
Subject: Re: The U.S. should watch out for soldiers who would bomb or nuke their own troops to revenge like it had done by RVN pilot Nguyen Thanh Trung in 1975
If PBS TV praises Nguyen Thanh Trung's act agains his own fellow soldiers, it probably praises Major Hasam for his act. After the bombing of South Vietnam's presidential palace, Trung flew several other bombing raids against ARVN troops from the new NVA controlled base in Phan Rang. PBS seems to be a leftist/communist media.
> Radical Islam pilots or ship captain someday may bomb the US to > revenge for the death of their own religious. In 1975, ARVN pilot > Nguyen Thanh Trung turned his bomber and dropped his bombs on RVN > presidential palace to revenge for his father, a VC guerrilla killed > by RVN troops. With nuclear weapons availble the danger will be > enormous. > After Fort Hood, tt's time for U.S. officials to be alert of another > Islamic Nguyen Thanh Trung in U.S. ranks. Major Hasam is just a tip of > an iceberg. > Visit:http://www.pbs.org/vietnampassage/Stories/stories.trung.01.html
> On Nov 6, 6:54 pm, "Dr. Vincent Quin, Ph.D." <d...@coldine.edu> wrote:
Subject: Re: The U.S. should watch out for soldiers who would bomb or nuke their own troops to revenge like it had done by RVN pilot Nguyen Thanh Trung in 1975
news:4c7cfae9-a546-4bfb-a1e0-3f6d50209f54@j24g2000yqa.googlegroups.com... If PBS TV praises Nguyen Thanh Trung's act agains his own fellow soldiers, it probably praises Major Hasam for his act. After the bombing of South Vietnam's presidential palace, Trung flew several other bombing raids against ARVN troops from the new NVA controlled base in Phan Rang. PBS seems to be a leftist/communist media.
Subject: Re: The U.S. should watch out for soldiers who would bomb or nuke their own troops to revenge like it had done by RVN pilot Nguyen Thanh Trung in 1975
> news:4c7cfae9-a546-4bfb-a1e0-3f6d50209f54@j24g2000yqa.googlegroups.com... > If PBS TV praises Nguyen Thanh Trung's act agains his own fellow > soldiers, it probably praises Major Hasam for his act. > After the bombing of South Vietnam's presidential palace, Trung flew > several other bombing raids against ARVN troops from the new NVA > controlled base in Phan Rang. PBS seems to be a leftist/communist > media.
> let me guess. you're a Faux news Rush the junkie fan.
Don't take the warning lightly. Before the Tet of 1968, U.S. Embassy and RVN government dismissed intelligent warnings of possible communist attacks during the Tet. In 2001, CIA and the Bush administration dismissed FBI warnings of many Arabs are learning how to fly commercial airlines. In both cases the U.S. missed the chance to stop disasters. A few radical Islams inside U.S. military could do a lot more damage than communists did to the U.S. during the Vietnam war.
From: "David E. Powell" <David_Powell3...@msn.com>
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 2009 21:24:50 -0800 (PST)
Local: Sun, Nov 8 2009 10:24 am
Subject: Re: The U.S. should watch out for soldiers who would bomb or nuke their own troops to revenge like it had done by RVN pilot Nguyen Thanh Trung in 1975
> On Nov 7, 8:45 am, "Ray O'Hara" <raymond-oh...@hotmail.com> wrote:> "Ben" <pb5...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> >news:4c7cfae9-a546-4bfb-a1e0-3f6d50209f54@j24g2000yqa.googlegroups.com... > > If PBS TV praises Nguyen Thanh Trung's act agains his own fellow > > soldiers, it probably praises Major Hasam for his act. > > After the bombing of South Vietnam's presidential palace, Trung flew > > several other bombing raids against ARVN troops from the new NVA > > controlled base in Phan Rang. PBS seems to be a leftist/communist > > media.
> > let me guess. you're a Faux news Rush the junkie fan.
> Don't take the warning lightly. > Before the Tet of 1968, U.S. Embassy and RVN government dismissed > intelligent warnings of possible communist attacks during the Tet. In > 2001, CIA and the Bush administration dismissed FBI warnings of many > Arabs are learning how to fly commercial airlines. In both cases the > U.S. missed the chance to stop disasters. > A few radical Islams inside U.S. military could do a lot more damage > than communists did to the U.S. during the Vietnam war.
The problem stems from the Cold War.
Many western leftists, hard leftists I mean, sympathised with the Arabs, as they were allies in a certain Bloc. People tend to forget that many of the terrorists involved in attacks like the Entebble hijacking were western, and that Europe had some very nasty cells, not to mention ones in the US. These cells led to the original formation of SWAT units in the US.
Also a certain subset of people got swayed to where they would root for whoever was against the "Capitalist West" by default, no matter who it was. This isn't meant as political bomb throwing, it is simple fact.
The problem is some take that default mode over into this, and the ideology is actually very different. The old Soviet Union's ideology was supposedly anti-Capitalist, and had the cry of equality for the sexes, classes and so forth. The irony is that fundamentalism is the opposite of that in goals. One of the most amazing things to me has been to see some of the folks who deny fundamentalist terrorism as a threat and who decry any calls for vigilance or preparedness, as they would probably be the first ones such a regime would go after. When one considers what hard core fundamentalists have repeatedly done to those who call for womens' education, equal rights for women, the freedom to determine one's own religious beliefs, and political freedom of speech all over the world, it shocks me that more of the mainstream folks in the west aren't concerned and are so reflexive against preparedness here. Were it something like The Order or some other right wing cell or other religious based cell popping up they would be justly concerned as would everyone else. The only thing I can think of sometimes is a certain reflexive ideology going back to that time, and the alliance of geopolitical convenience between the USSR and certain other groups based out of the mideast, at least in some political circles.
Subject: Re: The U.S. should watch out for soldiers who would bomb or nuke their own troops to revenge like it had done by RVN pilot Nguyen Thanh Trung in 1975
> been to see some of the folks who deny fundamentalist terrorism as a > threat and who decry any calls for vigilance or preparedness, as they > would probably be the first ones such a regime would go after. When > one considers what hard core fundamentalists have repeatedly done to > those who call for womens' education, equal rights for women, the > freedom to determine one's own religious beliefs, and political > freedom of speech all over the world, it shocks me that more of the > mainstream folks in the west aren't concerned and are so reflexive > against preparedness here.
Are you paranoid that the fundy Muslims are going to overtake and change Western civilization? Do you really think they (the fundy Muslims) would be able to pull that off? How would they be able to do that??? !! I would ask, also, what is it like to live in such fear and paranoia. That must really suck.
From: Jack Linthicum <jacklinthi...@earthlink.net>
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 2009 02:43:58 -0800 (PST)
Local: Sun, Nov 8 2009 3:43 pm
Subject: Re: The U.S. should watch out for soldiers who would bomb or nuke their own troops to revenge like it had done by RVN pilot Nguyen Thanh Trung in 1975
> On Nov 7, 8:45 am, "Ray O'Hara" <raymond-oh...@hotmail.com> wrote:> "Ben" <pb5...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> >news:4c7cfae9-a546-4bfb-a1e0-3f6d50209f54@j24g2000yqa.googlegroups.com... > > If PBS TV praises Nguyen Thanh Trung's act agains his own fellow > > soldiers, it probably praises Major Hasam for his act. > > After the bombing of South Vietnam's presidential palace, Trung flew > > several other bombing raids against ARVN troops from the new NVA > > controlled base in Phan Rang. PBS seems to be a leftist/communist > > media.
> > let me guess. you're a Faux news Rush the junkie fan.
> Don't take the warning lightly. > Before the Tet of 1968, U.S. Embassy and RVN government dismissed > intelligent warnings of possible communist attacks during the Tet. In > 2001, CIA and the Bush administration dismissed FBI warnings of many > Arabs are learning how to fly commercial airlines. In both cases the > U.S. missed the chance to stop disasters. > A few radical Islams inside U.S. military could do a lot more damage > than communists did to the U.S. during the Vietnam war.
Could you edit that statement to "one analyst in the FBI warned" and add "the upper echolons dismissed that warning"? "Communists"? "Vietnam war"? what loony bin told you that?
From: "David E. Powell" <David_Powell3...@msn.com>
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2009 20:09:59 -0800 (PST)
Local: Tues, Nov 10 2009 9:09 am
Subject: Re: The U.S. should watch out for soldiers who would bomb or nuke their own troops to revenge like it had done by RVN pilot Nguyen Thanh Trung in 1975
> > been to see some of the folks who deny fundamentalist terrorism as a > > threat and who decry any calls for vigilance or preparedness, as they > > would probably be the first ones such a regime would go after. When > > one considers what hard core fundamentalists have repeatedly done to > > those who call for womens' education, equal rights for women, the > > freedom to determine one's own religious beliefs, and political > > freedom of speech all over the world, it shocks me that more of the > > mainstream folks in the west aren't concerned and are so reflexive > > against preparedness here.
> Are you paranoid that the fundy Muslims are going to overtake and change > Western civilization? Do you really think they (the fundy Muslims) would be > able to pull that off? How would they be able to do that??? !! I would > ask, also, what is it like to live in such fear and paranoia. That must > really suck.
Sigh.
I was concerned that ignorance of the problem may make it harder to stop future attacks. As for complete overthrow of Western Civilization, I should hope not, but remember that the fundamentalists, in their minds, have those tenets as goals and motivations, logical or not, and that is part of what drives them. They may not be able, we hope, to overthrow all of democracy, equality of the genders, the latest videos on MTV and the existence of the Bravo channel, but that doesn't mean that such thoughts or beliefs or imaginings drive them to do some rather nasty and violent things, whether in nations where they do hold power or in other ones where cells of believers in the same fringe ideology attack people whenever they get the opportunity.
In light of recent events I would not call worrying that some future cell or individual with similar motivations could launch another attack somewhere "fear and paranoia" but common sense.
Concern over people who continue to pooh-pooh such things when the repeatedly crop up as motivations in terrorist attacks because it is politically correct in their minds to or because they are conditioned to reflexively deny such conditions was actually the whole point of my post.
Subject: Re: The U.S. should watch out for soldiers who would bomb or nuke their own troops to revenge like it had done by RVN pilot Nguyen Thanh Trung in 1975
David E. Powell wrote: > On Nov 8, 12:31 am, "La N" <nilita2004NOS...@yahoo.com> wrote: >> David E. Powell wrote:
>> One of the most amazing things to me has
>>> been to see some of the folks who deny fundamentalist terrorism as a >>> threat and who decry any calls for vigilance or preparedness, as >>> they would probably be the first ones such a regime would go after. >>> When one considers what hard core fundamentalists have repeatedly >>> done to those who call for womens' education, equal rights for >>> women, the freedom to determine one's own religious beliefs, and >>> political freedom of speech all over the world, it shocks me that >>> more of the mainstream folks in the west aren't concerned and are >>> so reflexive against preparedness here.
>> Are you paranoid that the fundy Muslims are going to overtake and >> change Western civilization? Do you really think they (the fundy >> Muslims) would be able to pull that off? How would they be able to >> do that??? !! I would ask, also, what is it like to live in such >> fear and paranoia. That must really suck.
> Sigh.
> I was concerned that ignorance of the problem may make it harder to > stop future attacks. As for complete overthrow of Western > Civilization, I should hope not, but remember that the > fundamentalists, in their minds, have those tenets as goals and > motivations, logical or not, and that is part of what drives them. > They may not be able, we hope, to overthrow all of democracy, equality > of the genders, the latest videos on MTV and the existence of the > Bravo channel, but that doesn't mean that such thoughts or beliefs or > imaginings drive them to do some rather nasty and violent things, > whether in nations where they do hold power or in other ones where > cells of believers in the same fringe ideology attack people whenever > they get the opportunity.
> In light of recent events I would not call worrying that some future > cell or individual with similar motivations could launch another > attack somewhere "fear and paranoia" but common sense.
> Concern over people who continue to pooh-pooh such things when the > repeatedly crop up as motivations in terrorist attacks because it is > politically correct in their minds to or because they are conditioned > to reflexively deny such conditions was actually the whole point of my > post.
Well, I don't want to dismiss your fears out of hand. Clearly, the issue does concern you. However, we have always had fringe people "out there" who have wanted to create terror and havoc whether it be some (allegedly) Islamic jihadist shooting up fellow soldiers or kids on a schoolground dust-up a la Columbine or somebody going postal in an office building in Orlando. Let us trust that our/your security types (i.e. FBI) are doing their job to help you feel safer. Going into the Middle East and invading (yet again) another country isn't going to make you or the world safer. Hopefully the policing/security agencies and informants continue to be vigilant. Most people are not so "evil". Most people just want to live their lives, take their kids to Disneyland, raise their families, throw BBQs, drink beer, listen to music, dance ... All the fretting and wringing of hands on the part of us "regular folks" about what could possibly happen is not going to help. So you/we might as well find ways to enjoy the good stuff of life.
Discussion subject changed to "Ft. Hood dead...Iraq war...blowback , or act of patriotism to stop unwinable ILLEGAL wars ASAP by attacking the REAL terrorists" by Richard Casady
On Sat, 07 Nov 2009 04:59:22 -0600, Alexander <Alexan...@thegreat.org> wrote:
>Yeah, Right..The Jews were called "Kikes", The Italians called "Guinies" >and "Wops", The Germans "Krauts" and "Huns", the English called " >Limeys", The French called "Frogs" The Irish called " Micks" The >orientals called "Slopes", "Chinks", "Gooks" etc... Big fucking deal. >It is just part of the military and nobody really gives a crap. This >Arab had been in service quite a number of years and knew the vernacular >used very well
Forty years ago, in the USAF, the use of those and similar terms to another service member would land you in big trouble. I doubt they have gone soft an racism since I got out.
Discussion subject changed to "The U.S. should watch out for soldiers who would bomb or nuke their own troops to revenge like it had done by RVN pilot Nguyen Thanh Trung in 1975" by erikc
Subject: Re: The U.S. should watch out for soldiers who would bomb or nuke their own troops to revenge like it had done by RVN pilot Nguyen Thanh Trung in 1975
On Sun, 08 Nov 2009 05:31:54 GMT, "La N" <nilita2004NOS...@yahoo.com> wrote: >David E. Powell wrote: > One of the most amazing things to me has >> been to see some of the folks who deny fundamentalist terrorism as a >> threat and who decry any calls for vigilance or preparedness, as they >> would probably be the first ones such a regime would go after. When >> one considers what hard core fundamentalists have repeatedly done to >> those who call for womens' education, equal rights for women, the >> freedom to determine one's own religious beliefs, and political >> freedom of speech all over the world, it shocks me that more of the >> mainstream folks in the west aren't concerned and are so reflexive >> against preparedness here.
>Are you paranoid that the fundy Muslims are going to overtake and change >Western civilization? Do you really think they (the fundy Muslims) would be >able to pull that off? How would they be able to do that??? !! I would >ask, also, what is it like to live in such fear and paranoia. That must >really suck.
>- nilita
Anything is possible, especially with crazy fuckers like the islamics.
Erikc (alt.atheist #002) | "An Fhirinne in aghaidh an tSaoil." BAAWA Knight (retired) | "The Truth against the World."
Subject: Re: The U.S. should watch out for soldiers who would bomb or nuke their own troops to revenge like it had done by RVN pilot Nguyen Thanh Trung in 1975
erikc wrote: > On Sun, 08 Nov 2009 05:31:54 GMT, "La N" <nilita2004NOS...@yahoo.com> wrote:
{snip}
>> Are you paranoid that the fundy Muslims are going to overtake and change >> Western civilization? Do you really think they (the fundy Muslims) would be >> able to pull that off? How would they be able to do that??? !! I would >> ask, also, what is it like to live in such fear and paranoia. That must >> really suck.
>> - nilita
> Anything is possible, especially with crazy fuckers like the islamics.
Try and succeed are two different words.
I have no fear that the Fundamental Muslims will succeed but they have already started trying.
From: "David E. Powell" <David_Powell3...@msn.com>
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2009 09:40:00 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Re: The U.S. should watch out for soldiers who would bomb or nuke their own troops to revenge like it had done by RVN pilot Nguyen Thanh Trung in 1975
> David E. Powell wrote: > > On Nov 8, 12:31 am, "La N" <nilita2004NOS...@yahoo.com> wrote: > >> David E. Powell wrote:
> >> One of the most amazing things to me has
> >>> been to see some of the folks who deny fundamentalist terrorism as a > >>> threat and who decry any calls for vigilance or preparedness, as > >>> they would probably be the first ones such a regime would go after. > >>> When one considers what hard core fundamentalists have repeatedly > >>> done to those who call for womens' education, equal rights for > >>> women, the freedom to determine one's own religious beliefs, and > >>> political freedom of speech all over the world, it shocks me that > >>> more of the mainstream folks in the west aren't concerned and are > >>> so reflexive against preparedness here.
> >> Are you paranoid that the fundy Muslims are going to overtake and > >> change Western civilization? Do you really think they (the fundy > >> Muslims) would be able to pull that off? How would they be able to > >> do that??? !! I would ask, also, what is it like to live in such > >> fear and paranoia. That must really suck.
> > Sigh.
> > I was concerned that ignorance of the problem may make it harder to > > stop future attacks. As for complete overthrow of Western > > Civilization, I should hope not, but remember that the > > fundamentalists, in their minds, have those tenets as goals and > > motivations, logical or not, and that is part of what drives them. > > They may not be able, we hope, to overthrow all of democracy, equality > > of the genders, the latest videos on MTV and the existence of the > > Bravo channel, but that doesn't mean that such thoughts or beliefs or > > imaginings drive them to do some rather nasty and violent things, > > whether in nations where they do hold power or in other ones where > > cells of believers in the same fringe ideology attack people whenever > > they get the opportunity.
> > In light of recent events I would not call worrying that some future > > cell or individual with similar motivations could launch another > > attack somewhere "fear and paranoia" but common sense.
> > Concern over people who continue to pooh-pooh such things when the > > repeatedly crop up as motivations in terrorist attacks because it is > > politically correct in their minds to or because they are conditioned > > to reflexively deny such conditions was actually the whole point of my > > post.
> Well, I don't want to dismiss your fears out of hand. Clearly, the issue > does concern you. However, we have always had fringe people "out there" who > have wanted to create terror and havoc whether it be some (allegedly)
Um, it was what the Ft. Hood killer said himself, so it wasn't "allegedly." It was obvious.
> Islamic jihadist shooting up fellow soldiers or kids on a schoolground > dust-up a la Columbine or somebody going postal in an office building in > Orlando. Let us trust that our/your security types (i.e. FBI) are doing > their job to help you feel safer. Going into the Middle East and invading > (yet again) another country isn't going to make you or the world safer.
I disagree with your assessment.
Afghanistan served as an incubator for Al Quaeda. Other places around the world where such ideologies hold sway not only provide areas where millions live in horrible conditions but places where terrorists arm, refit, train and base their operations around the world. They provide shelter for people like that Imam with 9/11 ties who fled to some other country, and they provide funding and weapons which they export along with trained operators and their ideology.
Now the thing is, not all of the people in those countries like it that way. They are, as you said, decent people who just want to live their lives and have a better future for their kids. We see Iranians risking death or horrible torture to protest and try to get their government to change. In Afghanistan locals fought back agains the Taliban for many years before the US got involved after Sept. 11. The leader of the local resistance was assassinated shortly before Sept. 11.
It is hard, because it is hard to find examples where countries taken over by Radical Islamists have transitioned back to being places of free expression, speech and choice of religion or philosophy.
Meanwhile my point stands that people ignore ideology or motivations of terrorists at their peril. It isn't like a lone shooter or serial kiler who has their own particular set of mental problems. This is a set of ideologies that keeps coming back and popping up again and again. You can bet if this was some sort of more conventional racist like Byron De La Beckwith who was professing that kind of ideology, it would be mentioned and looked at and it would be discussed how to deal with it, as was logically done in the big battles against those sorts of domestic terror cells. For some reason the real danger of radical strains of Islam is still being poo poo'd by some.
To get back to the point I made earlier, regarding culture and what "won't go away tommorow," remember that things don't happen instantly all the time. Speech can be influenced, curbed, freedoms changed over time. If people are so fearful they refuse to honestly discuss the motivations of terrorists, that's a sort of self censorship that paves the ground for something else. It also turns a blind eye not only to the motivations of terrorists, but to the suffering of people around the world who face entire regimes et up under such systems.
Instead of invading countries, I would prefer that such regimes go away from their own people, as we may yet see in Iran, but I am realist enough to know that much like the Cold War, standing evil in the face and declaring what it is and expressing support and human kinship with those imprisoned by such regimes, rather than kowtowing to them, is the way to encourage their people to move imto something better. The wall didn't come down 20 years ago because the west's leaders put their heads in the sand about Communism. We should remember that when we are told to ignore this dark ages ideology. No matter how noble, strong, and good a people, they must also be willing to stand for their beliefs if they are to make it. That is not being fearful, nor is it being bad, it is just realizing the lessons of history. In no way does that exclude the possibility of living and loving life every minute.
> Hopefully the policing/security agencies and informants continue to be > vigilant. Most people are not so "evil". Most people just want to live > their lives, take their kids to Disneyland, raise their families, throw > BBQs, drink beer, listen to music, dance ... All the fretting and wringing > of hands on the part of us "regular folks" about what could possibly happen > is not going to help. So you/we might as well find ways to enjoy the good > stuff of life.
I do, all the time. That does not make me unrealistic in my outlook.
The natural striving for humans in history is to do better, to want good things for their families and to live life. However, not all periods of history show an uninterrupted march of progress. Dark ages happen. I'm not going to stop loving life, believe me I'm far from that, but that doesn't mean I'll ignore the motivations of groups of people who want to end it.
Subject: Re: The U.S. should watch out for soldiers who would bomb or nuke their own troops to revenge like it had done by RVN pilot Nguyen Thanh Trung in 1975
> The natural striving for humans in history is to do better, to want > good things for their families and to live life. However, not all > periods of history show an uninterrupted march of progress. Dark ages > happen. I'm not going to stop loving life, believe me I'm far from > that, but that doesn't mean I'll ignore the motivations of groups of > people who want to end it.
You're "not going to ignore it." Thus, my question again is, What personally are you going to do about it apart from wringing your hands and fretting about the alleged "Dark Ages".
From: "David E. Powell" <David_Powell3...@msn.com>
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2009 10:03:42 -0800 (PST)
Local: Wed, Nov 11 2009 11:03 pm
Subject: Re: The U.S. should watch out for soldiers who would bomb or nuke their own troops to revenge like it had done by RVN pilot Nguyen Thanh Trung in 1975
On Nov 11, 12:44 pm, "La N" <nilita2004NOS...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> David E. Powell wrote:
> > The natural striving for humans in history is to do better, to want > > good things for their families and to live life. However, not all > > periods of history show an uninterrupted march of progress. Dark ages > > happen. I'm not going to stop loving life, believe me I'm far from > > that, but that doesn't mean I'll ignore the motivations of groups of > > people who want to end it.
> You're "not going to ignore it." Thus, my question again is, What > personally are you going to do about it apart from wringing your hands and > fretting about the alleged "Dark Ages".
Well, I can speak up when others poo poo it, which again was the whole point of the post.
I can remind people of them when others deliberately skip them, I can point out reality. You seem to want people to be quiet about certain things. I can simply be unquiet.
You can call the Dark Ages, which are actially mentioned in grade school text books "alleged" as you call radical motivations of the Fort Hood killer "alleged" when he himself mentioned them. I can merely point out that calling them "alleged" is an attempt to call into question the blatantly obvious.
Subject: Re: The U.S. should watch out for soldiers who would bomb or nuke their own troops to revenge like it had done by RVN pilot Nguyen Thanh Trung in 1975
> You can call the Dark Ages, which are actially mentioned in grade > school text books "alleged" as you call radical motivations of the > Fort Hood killer "alleged" when he himself mentioned them. I can > merely point out that calling them "alleged" is an attempt to call > into question the blatantly obvious.
Unlike you, I am an optimist. I don't think the Muslims are going to take over Western society. And I don't live in a state of constant fearfulness.
Subject: Re: The U.S. should watch out for soldiers who would bomb or nuke their own troops to revenge like it had done by RVN pilot Nguyen Thanh Trung in 1975
David E. Powell wrote: > It is hard, because it is hard to find examples where countries taken > over by Radical Islamists have transitioned back to being places of > free expression, speech and choice of religion or philosophy.
Outside of Saudi Arabia it's pretty hard to find any Wahabist countries.
-- William Black
"Any number under six"
The answer given by Englishman Richard Peeke when asked by the Duke of Medina Sidonia how many Spanish sword and buckler men he could beat single handed with a quarterstaff.
Subject: Re: The U.S. should watch out for soldiers who would bomb or nuke their own troops to revenge like it had done by RVN pilot Nguyen Thanh Trung in 1975
>> It is hard, because it is hard to find examples where countries taken >> over by Radical Islamists have transitioned back to being places of >> free expression, speech and choice of religion or philosophy.
> Outside of Saudi Arabia it's pretty hard to find any Wahabist > countries.
And when you feel this paranoid, you start acting like that Marine reservist shooting at Greek orthodox priests, for instance.
From: Jack Linthicum <jacklinthi...@earthlink.net>
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2009 11:05:18 -0800 (PST)
Local: Thurs, Nov 12 2009 12:05 am
Subject: Re: The U.S. should watch out for soldiers who would bomb or nuke their own troops to revenge like it had done by RVN pilot Nguyen Thanh Trung in 1975
> On Nov 11, 12:44 pm, "La N" <nilita2004NOS...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > David E. Powell wrote:
> > > The natural striving for humans in history is to do better, to want > > > good things for their families and to live life. However, not all > > > periods of history show an uninterrupted march of progress. Dark ages > > > happen. I'm not going to stop loving life, believe me I'm far from > > > that, but that doesn't mean I'll ignore the motivations of groups of > > > people who want to end it.
> > You're "not going to ignore it." Thus, my question again is, What > > personally are you going to do about it apart from wringing your hands and > > fretting about the alleged "Dark Ages".
> Well, I can speak up when others poo poo it, which again was the whole > point of the post.
> I can remind people of them when others deliberately skip them, I can > point out reality. You seem to want people to be quiet about certain > things. I can simply be unquiet.
> You can call the Dark Ages, which are actially mentioned in grade > school text books "alleged" as you call radical motivations of the > Fort Hood killer "alleged" when he himself mentioned them. I can > merely point out that calling them "alleged" is an attempt to call > into question the blatantly obvious.
You know the use of "alleged" is to protect the speaker or writer from being accused of an unfair use of the newspaper or other media.
"A deeper issue is this: Despite what some readers may remember from their high school journalism classes, "alleged" is not a magic bullet that somehow makes a story fair. It's just a quick way to note that a person has only been accused of something. Too often the word is used as a cheap substitute for real attribution that tells readers not only WHAT the accusation is, but WHO is making it."
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