> >>> I will billed wtwice for parking a few months ago by a marriot...I > >>> checked my cc and called them and corrected it. done deal. it didnt > >>> make me hate hotel chains forever...sheesh......- Hide quoted text - > >>> - Show quoted text - > >> Did you get a separate bill just for parking?
> > sure..next question?
> Three weeks later, the minibar bill showed up.
> The week after that, you got the one from the housekeepers - the same > darn day you got billed by the lifeguard at the pool - and you didn't > even *use* the @#$%in' pool!
> It turns out that the hotel contracts a linen service, so it took two > full months for that shit to arrive.
> Much more efficient this way.
it is for medicine....cuts down on admistrative/clerical costs....Im sorry if your bills/insurance statements don't arrive all on the same day. To me cutting down on admisitrative costs and such is more important than you getting a neat idy summary statement all in one nice envelope......sheesh
> On Tue, 3 Nov 2009 18:45:03 -0800 (PST), mianderson
> <mianderso...@yahoo.com> wrote: > >On Nov 3, 6:22 pm, "David Loewe, Jr." <dlo...@mindspring.com> wrote: > >> On Tue, 3 Nov 2009 14:11:08 -0800 (PST), mianderson <clay...@excite.com> > >> wrote: > >> >On Nov 3, 5:02 pm, "David V. Loewe, Jr" <davelo...@charter.net> wrote: > >> >> On Tue, 3 Nov 2009 10:37:55 -0800 (PST), mianderson > >> >> <mianderso...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> >> >On Nov 3, 1:21 pm, Emperor Wonko the Sane <d...@sorensensdomain.net> > >> >> >wrote: > >> >> >> On Nov 3, 11:46 am, mianderson <mianderso...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >> >> >> > earlier kyle(I think) posted a complaint about this I can't find....so > >> >> >> > I'll just respond here....
> >> >> >> > my question is wtf do you people want? If you go in for say to have > >> >> >> > your gallbladder removed, how do you want them to bill? Would you > >> >> >> > prefer not to have an anethesiologist? Would you prefer for the > >> >> >> > anesthesiologist to perform the surgery instead of the general > >> >> >> > surgeon? After all, that would cut down on the number of bills!
> >> >> >> > Or would you prefer for the surgeon to come to your home and operate > >> >> >> > on your bed? After all, that would cut out the inpatient bill from > >> >> >> > the hospital!
> >> >> >> > I mean you guys just arent making any sense here....
> >> >> >> What is wrong with one itemized bill from the hospital? > >> >> >because the providers dont work for the hospital!!!!
> >> >> This prevents them from using a unified billing service because... WHY?
> >> >ummmm....if patients want to pay for a bunch of "go betweens" for the > >> >providers and inpatient service.....fine with me. I dont give a > >> >****. But it would cost a little extra for the same service.
> >> We want *one* "go between" - that is it.
> >1 go between is more expensive than none
> There are no personnel in charge of billing in a doctor's office?
of course, but if doctors were "hospital employees" for inpatient stuff and there werent separate bills, there would still need a staff of billing/insurance people in their office for outpatient stuff......and then you would have administrative issues to handle this whacked out "single bill" from the hospital your rsfcers seem to want......
so instead of 1 administrative group from the physicians standpoint there would be 2....
> >.........why pay 3500 for a > >quick procedure when you could by 2800....
> Why would the price be any different than now?
you'd have more paperwork to get to the point of consolidating all the different inpatient providers....the surgeon, the anesth, the internist, etc......
> You assert a lot but you never explain the logic behind your assertions.
mianderson wrote: > On Nov 4, 1:47 am, "Kyle T. Jones" <KBf...@realdomain.net> wrote: >> mianderson wrote:
>> .
>>>>> I will billed wtwice for parking a few months ago by a marriot...I >>>>> checked my cc and called them and corrected it. done deal. it didnt >>>>> make me hate hotel chains forever...sheesh......- Hide quoted text - >>>>> - Show quoted text - >>>> Did you get a separate bill just for parking? >>> sure..next question? >> Three weeks later, the minibar bill showed up.
>> The week after that, you got the one from the housekeepers - the same >> darn day you got billed by the lifeguard at the pool - and you didn't >> even *use* the @#$%in' pool!
>> It turns out that the hotel contracts a linen service, so it took two >> full months for that shit to arrive.
>> Much more efficient this way.
> it is for medicine....cuts down on admistrative/clerical costs....Im > sorry if your bills/insurance statements don't arrive all on the same > day. To me cutting down on admisitrative costs and such is more > important than you getting a neat idy summary statement all in one > nice envelope......sheesh
That would be reasonable... if you weren't just making up the "cuts down on administrative/clerical costs" part. As has been pointed out to you several times, if this was the case the medical billing model would be adopted by other sectors.
hey, mianderson <mianderso...@gmail.com>'s been through solid matter, for crying out loud. Who knows what's happened to his brain? Maybe it's scrambled his molecules...
>On Nov 4, 6:49 pm, Dennis J <drjud...@verizon.netSCRAPE.COM> wrote:
>> yeah... the guy framing your house has only been doing that kind of >> stuff since he was 14, when he helped his dad... that 25 year old >> "kid" has more experience than you will when you finish med school.
>but medicine is a more important job than putting shingles on a >house.......sorry. it is.
Teaching is more important than medicine, and uhm what does the Average teacher earn compared to that of a newly licensed doctor? or what about the Nurses who actually care for patients MORE than doctors do? oh, and we never get a bill for the Nurses when we visit a hospital do we?
>> I really get pissed, when a Doctor glances at an X-ray and charges 500 >> bucks to" read" it.
>no doctor charges 500 dollars to read an xray....the reimbursment a >radiologist gets(and in most cases the rads review on an xray is just >a formality anyways) is a tiny fraction of that....the "reading" fee >if you will.
>You are probably confusing that with an mri or pet or whatever(and >hell the reimbursement for an mri for rads isnt 500 either)....the >reading fee I mean.
--
"the Democrat and Republican parties are destroying our country right now, They're destroying our political process." -- Jesse Ventura
"Education is the progressive discovery of our own Ignorance" Will Durant
"One can't have a sense of perspective without a sense of Humor" -- Wayne Thiboux
"the Glass is not only half full, it has been delicious so far!!" -- ME
hey, "David V. Loewe, Jr" <davelo...@charter.net>'s been through solid matter, for crying out loud. Who knows what's happened to his brain? Maybe it's scrambled his molecules...
>>On Nov 3, 1:32 pm, The BorgMan <m...@me.net> wrote: >>> mianderson <mianderso...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>> > earlier kyle(I think) posted a complaint about this I can't find....so >>> > I'll just respond here....
>>> > my question is wtf do you people want? If you go in for say to have >>> > your gallbladder removed, how do you want them to bill? Would you >>> > prefer not to have an anethesiologist? Would you prefer for the >>> > anesthesiologist to perform the surgery instead of the general >>> > surgeon? After all, that would cut down on the number of bills!
>>> > Or would you prefer for the surgeon to come to your home and operate >>> > on your bed? After all, that would cut out the inpatient bill from >>> > the hospital!
>>> > I mean you guys just arent making any sense here....
>>> I'd prefer they all work for the hospital
>>huh? That would make things more inefficient because then the gi guy >>or cards guy or whatever would have to have 3 more office people to >>separate inpatient from outpatient......
>If he works for the hospital - like they do at the Mayo Clinic - I don't >see why it would matter if they're inpatient or outpatient.
>>> When you hire a general contractor to build you a house, you don't see >>> bills from all his subcontractors.
>>probably because the subcontractors didn't go to school and training >>for a gazillion years either....
>You keep saying this like it makes some kind of difference. The cost of >the training should add to the amount of the bill, not the complexity of >the bill.
>>either way, your idea is more inefficient because it would involve an >>elaborate administrative system between the hospital and the >>providers.....
>No. The providers would simply work for the hospital.
The providers wouldn't have a job without the Hospital. So if we made it illegal to give kickbacks or incentives For Doctors to bring patients to a hospital, wouldn't that reduce the cost of health care in the country rather quickly? --
"the Democrat and Republican parties are destroying our country right now, They're destroying our political process." -- Jesse Ventura
"Education is the progressive discovery of our own Ignorance" Will Durant
"One can't have a sense of perspective without a sense of Humor" -- Wayne Thiboux
"the Glass is not only half full, it has been delicious so far!!" -- ME
On Nov 5, 4:54 am, Dennis J <drjud...@verizon.netSCRAPE.COM> wrote:
> hey, mianderson <mianderso...@gmail.com>'s been through solid matter, > for crying out loud. Who knows what's happened to his brain? Maybe > it's scrambled his molecules...
> >On Nov 4, 6:49 pm, Dennis J <drjud...@verizon.netSCRAPE.COM> wrote:
> >> yeah... the guy framing your house has only been doing that kind of > >> stuff since he was 14, when he helped his dad... that 25 year old > >> "kid" has more experience than you will when you finish med school.
> >but medicine is a more important job than putting shingles on a > >house.......sorry. it is.
> Teaching is more important than medicine
nonsense....
, and uhm what does the
> Average teacher earn compared to that of a newly licensed doctor? or > what about the Nurses who actually care for patients MORE than doctors > do? oh, and we never get a bill for the Nurses when we visit a > hospital do we?
nurses work for the hospital.....physicians don't. But you pay plenty for those nurses. Thats one reason why a hospital stay is so expensive.
> hey, "David V. Loewe, Jr" <davelo...@charter.net>'s been through solid > matter, for crying out loud. Who knows what's happened to his brain? > Maybe it's scrambled his molecules...
> >>On Nov 3, 1:32 pm, The BorgMan <m...@me.net> wrote: > >>> mianderson <mianderso...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >>> > earlier kyle(I think) posted a complaint about this I can't find....so > >>> > I'll just respond here....
> >>> > my question is wtf do you people want? If you go in for say to have > >>> > your gallbladder removed, how do you want them to bill? Would you > >>> > prefer not to have an anethesiologist? Would you prefer for the > >>> > anesthesiologist to perform the surgery instead of the general > >>> > surgeon? After all, that would cut down on the number of bills!
> >>> > Or would you prefer for the surgeon to come to your home and operate > >>> > on your bed? After all, that would cut out the inpatient bill from > >>> > the hospital!
> >>> > I mean you guys just arent making any sense here....
> >>> I'd prefer they all work for the hospital
> >>huh? That would make things more inefficient because then the gi guy > >>or cards guy or whatever would have to have 3 more office people to > >>separate inpatient from outpatient......
> >If he works for the hospital - like they do at the Mayo Clinic - I don't > >see why it would matter if they're inpatient or outpatient.
> >>> When you hire a general contractor to build you a house, you don't see > >>> bills from all his subcontractors.
> >>probably because the subcontractors didn't go to school and training > >>for a gazillion years either....
> >You keep saying this like it makes some kind of difference. The cost of > >the training should add to the amount of the bill, not the complexity of > >the bill.
> >>either way, your idea is more inefficient because it would involve an > >>elaborate administrative system between the hospital and the > >>providers.....
> >No. The providers would simply work for the hospital.
> The providers wouldn't have a job without the Hospital.
sure they would....even many surgeon groups now own their own day surgery group. And they *want* to. They actually would rather do things your way(ie a single owner for most services with one itemized bill), but because most states have regulations that prevent privately owned day surgery centers(or restrictions that mandate a certain % or whatever), they cant do this.
why do you think most simple surgeries are now done at the big city hospital or whatever instead of a privately owned day surgery center? Because legislation forces it.......it certainly doesnt help the physicians.
> it illegal to give kickbacks or incentives For Doctors to bring > patients to a hospital, wouldn't that reduce the cost of health care > in the country rather quickly? > --
> "the Democrat and Republican parties are destroying our country right now, > They're destroying our political process." -- Jesse Ventura
> "Education is the progressive discovery of our own Ignorance" Will Durant
> "One can't have a sense of perspective without a sense of Humor" -- Wayne Thiboux
> "the Glass is not only half full, it has been delicious so far!!" -- ME
> To reply, SCRAPE off the end bits.- Hide quoted text -
<mianderso...@gmail.com> wrote: >On Nov 3, 10:27 pm, "David V. Loewe, Jr" <davelo...@charter.net> >wrote: >> On Tue, 3 Nov 2009 18:45:03 -0800 (PST), mianderson >> <mianderso...@yahoo.com> wrote: >> >On Nov 3, 6:22 pm, "David Loewe, Jr." <dlo...@mindspring.com> wrote: >> >> On Tue, 3 Nov 2009 14:11:08 -0800 (PST), mianderson <clay...@excite.com> >> >> wrote: >> >> >On Nov 3, 5:02 pm, "David V. Loewe, Jr" <davelo...@charter.net> wrote: >> >> >> On Tue, 3 Nov 2009 10:37:55 -0800 (PST), mianderson >> >> >> <mianderso...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> >> >On Nov 3, 1:21 pm, Emperor Wonko the Sane <d...@sorensensdomain.net> >> >> >> >wrote: >> >> >> >> On Nov 3, 11:46 am, mianderson <mianderso...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> >> >> >> > earlier kyle(I think) posted a complaint about this I can't find....so >> >> >> >> > I'll just respond here....
>> >> >> >> > my question is wtf do you people want? If you go in for say to have >> >> >> >> > your gallbladder removed, how do you want them to bill? Would you >> >> >> >> > prefer not to have an anethesiologist? Would you prefer for the >> >> >> >> > anesthesiologist to perform the surgery instead of the general >> >> >> >> > surgeon? After all, that would cut down on the number of bills!
>> >> >> >> > Or would you prefer for the surgeon to come to your home and operate >> >> >> >> > on your bed? After all, that would cut out the inpatient bill from >> >> >> >> > the hospital!
>> >> >> >> > I mean you guys just arent making any sense here....
>> >> >> >> What is wrong with one itemized bill from the hospital? >> >> >> >because the providers dont work for the hospital!!!!
>> >> >> This prevents them from using a unified billing service because... WHY?
>> >> >ummmm....if patients want to pay for a bunch of "go betweens" for the >> >> >providers and inpatient service.....fine with me. I dont give a >> >> >****. But it would cost a little extra for the same service.
>> >> We want *one* "go between" - that is it.
>> >1 go between is more expensive than none
>> There are no personnel in charge of billing in a doctor's office?
>of course, but if doctors were "hospital employees" for inpatient >stuff and there werent separate bills, there would still need a staff >of billing/insurance people in their office for outpatient >stuff......
Which they already have...
And the hospital already has *their* billing people...
So, why do we need more, again?
>and then you would have administrative issues to handle >this whacked out "single bill" from the hospital your rsfcers seem to >want......
>so instead of 1 administrative group from the physicians standpoint >there would be 2.... >> >.........why pay 3500 for a >> >quick procedure when you could by 2800....
>> Why would the price be any different than now?
>you'd have more paperwork to get to the point of consolidating all the >different inpatient providers....the surgeon, the anesth, the >internist, etc......
You could just have a computer program *merge* the damned things into one bill.
>> You assert a lot but you never explain the logic behind your assertions.
>I just did above...it's very simple.
Note that I only get two bills. One from Barnes-Jewish Hospital and one from Washington University Physicians. Every physician that works at Barnes-Jewish bills through the Washington University Physicians. Which means that the physicians are either all in the same practice or they figured out that consolidated billing was much better.
>> >makes no sense to me, but whatever....... >> >> You assert a lot but you never explain the logic behind your assertions.
>> >> >> >What is hard about that to understand?
-- "Beware the fury of a patient man." John Dryden
<mianderso...@yahoo.com> wrote: >On Nov 5, 4:54 am, Dennis J <drjud...@verizon.netSCRAPE.COM> wrote: >> hey, mianderson <mianderso...@gmail.com>'s been through solid matter, >> for crying out loud. Who knows what's happened to his brain? Maybe >> it's scrambled his molecules... >> >On Nov 4, 6:49 pm, Dennis J <drjud...@verizon.netSCRAPE.COM> wrote:
>> >> yeah... the guy framing your house has only been doing that kind of >> >> stuff since he was 14, when he helped his dad... that 25 year old >> >> "kid" has more experience than you will when you finish med school.
>> >but medicine is a more important job than putting shingles on a >> >house.......sorry. it is.
>> Teaching is more important than medicine
>nonsense.... >, and uhm what does the >> Average teacher earn compared to that of a newly licensed doctor? or >> what about the Nurses who actually care for patients MORE than doctors >> do? oh, and we never get a bill for the Nurses when we visit a >> hospital do we?
>nurses work for the hospital.....physicians don't.
They can. And the care can be quite good if they do. see Clinic, Mayo.
>But you pay plenty >for those nurses. Thats one reason why a hospital stay is so >expensive.
-- "...you know, it seems to me you suffer from the problem of wanting a tailored fit in an off the rack world." Dennis Juds
hey, mianderson <mianderso...@yahoo.com>'s been through solid matter, for crying out loud. Who knows what's happened to his brain? Maybe it's scrambled his molecules...
>On Nov 5, 4:58 am, Dennis J <drjud...@verizon.netSCRAPE.COM> wrote: >> hey, "David V. Loewe, Jr" <davelo...@charter.net>'s been through solid >> matter, for crying out loud. Who knows what's happened to his brain? >> Maybe it's scrambled his molecules...
>> >>On Nov 3, 1:32 pm, The BorgMan <m...@me.net> wrote: >> >>> mianderson <mianderso...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> >>> > earlier kyle(I think) posted a complaint about this I can't find....so >> >>> > I'll just respond here....
>> >>> > my question is wtf do you people want? If you go in for say to have >> >>> > your gallbladder removed, how do you want them to bill? Would you >> >>> > prefer not to have an anethesiologist? Would you prefer for the >> >>> > anesthesiologist to perform the surgery instead of the general >> >>> > surgeon? After all, that would cut down on the number of bills!
>> >>> > Or would you prefer for the surgeon to come to your home and operate >> >>> > on your bed? After all, that would cut out the inpatient bill from >> >>> > the hospital!
>> >>> > I mean you guys just arent making any sense here....
>> >>> I'd prefer they all work for the hospital
>> >>huh? That would make things more inefficient because then the gi guy >> >>or cards guy or whatever would have to have 3 more office people to >> >>separate inpatient from outpatient......
>> >If he works for the hospital - like they do at the Mayo Clinic - I don't >> >see why it would matter if they're inpatient or outpatient.
>> >>> When you hire a general contractor to build you a house, you don't see >> >>> bills from all his subcontractors.
>> >>probably because the subcontractors didn't go to school and training >> >>for a gazillion years either....
>> >You keep saying this like it makes some kind of difference. The cost of >> >the training should add to the amount of the bill, not the complexity of >> >the bill.
>> >>either way, your idea is more inefficient because it would involve an >> >>elaborate administrative system between the hospital and the >> >>providers.....
>> >No. The providers would simply work for the hospital.
>> The providers wouldn't have a job without the Hospital.
>sure they would....even many surgeon groups now own their own day >surgery group. And they *want* to. They actually would rather do >things your way(ie a single owner for most services with one itemized >bill), but because most states have regulations that prevent privately >owned day surgery centers(or restrictions that mandate a certain % or >whatever), they cant do this.
>why do you think most simple surgeries are now done at the big city >hospital or whatever instead of a privately owned day surgery center? >Because legislation forces it.......it certainly doesnt help the >physicians.
the REAL reason is these Contractors don't want to work for anyone else. thus keep more profits. Patients aren't just a revenue stream.
> So if we made >> it illegal to give kickbacks or incentives For Doctors to bring >> patients to a hospital, wouldn't that reduce the cost of health care >> in the country rather quickly? >> --
>> "the Democrat and Republican parties are destroying our country right now, >> They're destroying our political process." -- Jesse Ventura
>> "Education is the progressive discovery of our own Ignorance" Will Durant
>> "One can't have a sense of perspective without a sense of Humor" -- Wayne Thiboux
>> "the Glass is not only half full, it has been delicious so far!!" -- ME
>> To reply, SCRAPE off the end bits.- Hide quoted text -
>> - Show quoted text -
--
"the Democrat and Republican parties are destroying our country right now, They're destroying our political process." -- Jesse Ventura
"Education is the progressive discovery of our own Ignorance" Will Durant
"One can't have a sense of perspective without a sense of Humor" -- Wayne Thiboux
"the Glass is not only half full, it has been delicious so far!!" -- ME
> On Nov 3, 1:21 pm, Emperor Wonko the Sane <d...@sorensensdomain.net> > wrote:
> > On Nov 3, 11:46 am, mianderson <mianderso...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > earlier kyle(I think) posted a complaint about this I can't find....so > > > I'll just respond here....
> > > my question is wtf do you people want? If you go in for say to have > > > your gallbladder removed, how do you want them to bill? Would you > > > prefer not to have an anethesiologist? Would you prefer for the > > > anesthesiologist to perform the surgery instead of the general > > > surgeon? After all, that would cut down on the number of bills!
> > > Or would you prefer for the surgeon to come to your home and operate > > > on your bed? After all, that would cut out the inpatient bill from > > > the hospital!
> > > I mean you guys just arent making any sense here....
> > What is wrong with one itemized bill from the hospital?
> because the providers dont work for the hospital!!!! What is hard > about that to understand?
I've proven in another thread that you ran away from that this is not always the case.
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