I'm hoping someone having experience with self locking nuts can help me with the following.
At mcmaster.com I found four types of self locking nuts I can use on a 1/4-28 thread bolt. I just want to snug the nut down on the bolt to take up any linear or axial play, but I'm not going to really torque the nut down with any significant force. I could use loc-tite to keep the nut from backing off but I want to try a self locking nut.
I have listed my choices from www.mcmaster.com below. I need to know which nut will provide the most resistance to removal with a wrench. There are no vibrations or anything in the application, I just need to know which self locking method will provide the most resistance to removal with a standard wrench. The nut will never be removed or reused after it's snugged down.
If you could also list them in order of most resistance to least resistance that would be great. If you are aware of any information or online reference for actual forces required to loosen the nuts, that would also be very helpful.
90566A210 (Nylon insert type Lock nut) 94830A515 (Expanding type lock nut) 91837A250 (Distorted thread type lock nut, top-lock style) 90040A120 (Distorted thread type lock nut, center-lock style)
I would appreciate any feedback or experiences with self locking nuts.
>I'm hoping someone having experience with self locking nuts can help >me with the following.
>At mcmaster.com I found four types of self locking nuts I can use on a >1/4-28 thread bolt. I just want to snug the nut down on the bolt to >take up any linear or axial play, but I'm not going to really torque >the nut down with any significant force. I could use loc-tite to keep >the nut from backing off but I want to try a self locking nut.
>I have listed my choices from www.mcmaster.com below. I need to know >which nut will provide the most resistance to removal with a wrench. >There are no vibrations or anything in the application, I just need to >know which self locking method will provide the most resistance to >removal with a standard wrench. The nut will never be removed or >reused after it's snugged down.
> If you could also list them in order of most resistance to least >resistance that would be great. If you are aware of any information or >online reference for actual forces required to loosen the nuts, that >would also be very helpful.
>90566A210 (Nylon insert type Lock nut) >94830A515 (Expanding type lock nut) >91837A250 (Distorted thread type lock nut, top-lock style) >90040A120 (Distorted thread type lock nut, center-lock style)
>I would appreciate any feedback or experiences with self locking nuts.
>Thanks >John
in aviation we use the first and third types. I find that the third type has a stronger hold than a nylock.
look up 'Nord-Lock' on google. this is a little double washer that sits under the nut. it has stepped faces that make the release force of the nut higher than the forced used to snug down the nut. it may be a way of achieveing what you want. you could use plain nuts or nylocks with them.
Stealth Pilot missed the REAL thing we use in aviation when we don't want the nut to come off, it's called "saftey wire"
It's also pretty tough to get a castle nut to move when it's got a cotter key through it.
If you are serious about NEVER removing this nut try some "Locktite" and in a pinch "crazy glue" works well too... FTI "crazy glue" can be rendered useless by heating it.
--.- Dave (who takes the C-182 down this weekend for it's "annual")
"John2005" <johnjmechani...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> I'm hoping someone having experience with self locking nuts can help > me with the following.
> At mcmaster.com I found four types of self locking nuts I can use on a > 1/4-28 thread bolt. I just want to snug the nut down on the bolt to > take up any linear or axial play, but I'm not going to really torque > the nut down with any significant force. I could use loc-tite to keep > the nut from backing off but I want to try a self locking nut.
> I have listed my choices from www.mcmaster.com below. I need to know > which nut will provide the most resistance to removal with a wrench. > There are no vibrations or anything in the application, I just need to > know which self locking method will provide the most resistance to > removal with a standard wrench. The nut will never be removed or > reused after it's snugged down.
> If you could also list them in order of most resistance to least > resistance that would be great. If you are aware of any information or > online reference for actual forces required to loosen the nuts, that > would also be very helpful.
> 90566A210 (Nylon insert type Lock nut) > 94830A515 (Expanding type lock nut) > 91837A250 (Distorted thread type lock nut, top-lock style) > 90040A120 (Distorted thread type lock nut, center-lock style)
> I would appreciate any feedback or experiences with self locking nuts.
> I'm hoping someone having experience with self locking nuts can help > me with the following.
> At mcmaster.com I found four types of self locking nuts I can use on a > 1/4-28 thread bolt. I just want to snug the nut down on the bolt to > take up any linear or axial play, but I'm not going to really torque > the nut down with any significant force. I could use loc-tite to keep > the nut from backing off but I want to try a self locking nut.
> I have listed my choices fromwww.mcmaster.combelow. I need to know > which nut will provide the most resistance to removal with a wrench. > There are no vibrations or anything in the application, I just need to > know which self locking method will provide the most resistance to > removal with a standard wrench. The nut will never be removed or > reused after it's snugged down.
> If you could also list them in order of most resistance to least > resistance that would be great. If you are aware of any information or > online reference for actual forces required to loosen the nuts, that > would also be very helpful.
> 90566A210 (Nylon insert type Lock nut) > 94830A515 (Expanding type lock nut) > 91837A250 (Distorted thread type lock nut, top-lock style) > 90040A120 (Distorted thread type lock nut, center-lock style)
> I would appreciate any feedback or experiences with self locking nuts.
> Thanks > John
If you want it NEVER to move again, use the permanent grade of Loctite. Much cheaper than messing with any sort of self-locking nut and lots easier to get on, too. Only way to get it off is to heat the nut with a torch till it smokes. Used a lot of it on VW air-cooled flywheel gland bolts.
If I use a regular non hardened hex nut (maybe a grade 2 or a brass nut) could I tap a hole through the side (through one of the nut flats to the center of the nut) that would allow me to use a cone point set screw to lock the nut in place after it's snugged down, or would tapping the nut in this way mess up the nut threads so that it would not thread onto the bolt ?
If it could work, tapping the nut would be easy and set screws are cheap. Plus I would save time cleaning the bolts, applying primer, and waiting for the loc-tite to dry.
Once the cone point set screw digs in, I don't think it would go anywhere. It's just a matter of whether it can be done without messing up the nut threads.
On Fri, 25 Jul 2008 09:16:25 -0700 (PDT), Bob AZ <rwatson...@aol.com> wrote:
>> in aviation we use the first and third types. >> I find that the third type has a stronger hold than a nylock. >> Stealth Pilot- Hide quoted text -
>> - Show quoted text -
>Speaking of aviation. Where does one find the nuts that can be "wire >nutted" to the bolt. A shop where I do work needs some.
>Bob AZ
the term is "lockwired" I've never heard of 'wire nutted'.
what is more often used is a castellated nut with a split pin through a hole in the bolt. this is used on hinge bolts.
what I think you are referring to is a hexagon nut is drilled through the peak of the hex from flat to flat. I have no idea how they actually do it without breaking drills. it appears to me to be the most difficult drilling I could imagine although thinking about it all the nuts done this way are brass so maybe it is easy with a jig.
what is often done is not to bother changing the nut but to create a washer with a lobe. the lobe has a hole through it and is bent up clear of the underlying surface. the lobe is lockwired to something. on the washer you bend a section or two up onto the flat of the bolt. something like this is used on marvel schebler carburettor bodies.
there is also the method used on a glider I know. the counter weight is screwed on to a support. both pieces have opposite side flats. a washer is used between them. one side is bent up, the other side bent down.
if none of these work for you describe the application more fully and I'll try again.
<aug...@NOSPAMacmesi.com> wrote: >I just need to >> know which self locking method will provide the most resistance to >> removal with a standard wrench. The nut will never be removed or >> reused after it's snugged down.
of course dave but the quoted part above is a description of what Nord-Locks do best.
a round nut with no flats could do this perfectly.
>it appears to me to be the most difficult drilling I could imagine >although thinking about it all the nuts done this way are brass so >maybe it is easy with a jig.
<snip> ======== common on race vehicles. jigs are commercially available.
Unka' George [George McDuffee] ------------------------------------------- He that will not apply new remedies, must expect new evils: for Time is the greatest innovator: and if Time, of course, alter things to the worse, and wisdom and counsel shall not alter them to the better, what shall be the end?
Francis Bacon (1561-1626), English philosopher, essayist, statesman. Essays, "Of Innovations" (1597-1625).
Stealth Pilot wrote: > On Fri, 25 Jul 2008 09:16:25 -0700 (PDT), Bob AZ <rwatson...@aol.com> > wrote:
>>> in aviation we use the first and third types. >>> I find that the third type has a stronger hold than a nylock. >>> Stealth Pilot- Hide quoted text -
>>> - Show quoted text - >> Speaking of aviation. Where does one find the nuts that can be "wire >> nutted" to the bolt. A shop where I do work needs some.
>> Bob AZ
> the term is "lockwired" I've never heard of 'wire nutted'.
> what is more often used is a castellated nut with a split pin through > a hole in the bolt. this is used on hinge bolts.
> what I think you are referring to is a hexagon nut is drilled through > the peak of the hex from flat to flat. I have no idea how they > actually do it without breaking drills. > it appears to me to be the most difficult drilling I could imagine > although thinking about it all the nuts done this way are brass so > maybe it is easy with a jig.
> what is often done is not to bother changing the nut but to create a > washer with a lobe. the lobe has a hole through it and is bent up > clear of the underlying surface. the lobe is lockwired to something. > on the washer you bend a section or two up onto the flat of the bolt. > something like this is used on marvel schebler carburettor bodies.
> there is also the method used on a glider I know. the counter weight > is screwed on to a support. both pieces have opposite side flats. > a washer is used between them. one side is bent up, the other side > bent down.
> if none of these work for you describe the application more fully and > I'll try again.
> Stealth Pilot
There are also castellated locks for standard nuts. They go over the existing nut and get pinned or wired in place. Used to see them a lot on front wheel bearings.
Of course if the OP actually means that once installed he will REALLY never need to remove it. Tack it with a welder.
