Some don't buy mats at fault for Toyota accidents N.C. couple say their car sped, caught fire
BY GREG GARDNER FREE PRESS BUSINESS WRITER
Toyota Motor Corp.'s campaign to get customers to remove or replace floor mats, which the Japanese automaker is blaming for unintended acceleration cases, isn't convincing to some of its drivers, such as Grover and Barbara Walton.
More than 300 complaints have been filed with federal regulators about the problem, including at least six involving fatalities, and Toyota says the floor mats are to blame.
But that's not what the Waltons believe. The couple from Boiling Springs, N.C., were driving to Murrells Inlet, S.C., Oct. 9 when their 2008 Toyota Prius surged on a marshy four-lane highway.
It all started when, after slowing down through a small coastal town, Walton said he hit the resume-acceleration button on his cruise control.
"All of a sudden, we were flying and I hadn't touched the pedal," said Grover, a retired property manager.
He said he hit the brakes, which slowed the car. But when Walton released the brake pedal, he said his Prius surged again.
"Before my husband could safely get the car off the road, he had ridden the brakes so hard to avoid an accident that flames were coming from behind both front wheels where the brakes had caught fire," Barbara Walton said.
After exiting the car, Grover scooped up several hands full of sand and threw it on the brake pads until the flames went out. They called a Toyota dealership in Myrtle Beach to tow it. The Waltons picked up their car three days later and drove home.
While Toyota is defending lawsuits from people whose spouses or loved ones were killed in cases of unintended acceleration, the Waltons were not injured and said they have not sued.
But they are convinced that a floor mat did not cause their perilous experience.
The car did have a rubberized all-weather floor mat that was fastened to the underlying hooks and was so firm that Walton said he could not bend it enough to interfere with the accelerator. He removed it after last month's incident.
Toyota executive Bob Carter said Monday that the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration had closed six investigations into complaints of Toyota or Lexus vehicles that accelerated faster than the driver intended. All six cases, he said, concluded with NHTSA finding no defect other than an unsecured or incompatible floor mat.
One of those complaints was filed by Jeffrey Pepski of Plymouth, Minn., who last April reported unintended acceleration in his 2007 Lexus ES350. NHTSA has received 64 similar complaints for 2007 Lexus models.
On Oct. 29, NHTSA concluded 50 of those incidents, including all 15 cases in which someone was injured, were caused by floor mat interference. It denied Pepski's request for further investigation, but said that its decision does not constitute a finding ... that a safety-related defect does not exist."
NHTSA reiterated that to the Free Press on Tuesday.
"Removal of the mats is simply an interim measure," said NHTSA spokeswoman Karen Aldana. "NHTSA will be discussing with Toyota what the appropriate vehicle remedy or remedies will be."
On Thu, 05 Nov 2009 21:05:22 -0800, john wrote: > But that's not what the Waltons believe. The couple from Boiling Springs, > N.C., were driving to Murrells Inlet, S.C., Oct. 9 when their 2008 Toyota > Prius surged on a marshy four-lane highway.
> It all started when, after slowing down through a small coastal town, > Walton said he hit the resume-acceleration button on his cruise control.
> "All of a sudden, we were flying and I hadn't touched the pedal," said > Grover, a retired property manager.
I'm certainly not the world's smartest person, but I know enough to TURN OFF THE CRUISE CONTROL WHEN I GET OFF THE HIGHWAY.
A lot of driving is just plain Common Sense. A lot of people just plain don't have it.
>> But that's not what the Waltons believe. The couple from Boiling >> Springs, N.C., were driving to Murrells Inlet, S.C., Oct. 9 when their >> 2008 Toyota Prius surged on a marshy four-lane highway.
>> It all started when, after slowing down through a small coastal town, >> Walton said he hit the resume-acceleration button on his cruise >> control.
>> "All of a sudden, we were flying and I hadn't touched the pedal," said >> Grover, a retired property manager.
> I'm certainly not the world's smartest person, but I know enough to > TURN OFF THE CRUISE CONTROL WHEN I GET OFF THE HIGHWAY.
> A lot of driving is just plain Common Sense. > A lot of people just plain don't have it.
Held down the brake pedal until they caught fire too. Sounds to me like this Toyota "problem" is just Darwin in action.
>> But that's not what the Waltons believe. The couple from Boiling >> Springs, >> N.C., were driving to Murrells Inlet, S.C., Oct. 9 when their 2008 >> Toyota >> Prius surged on a marshy four-lane highway.
>> It all started when, after slowing down through a small coastal >> town, >> Walton said he hit the resume-acceleration button on his cruise >> control.
>> "All of a sudden, we were flying and I hadn't touched the pedal," >> said >> Grover, a retired property manager.
> I'm certainly not the world's smartest person, but I know enough to > TURN OFF THE CRUISE CONTROL WHEN I GET OFF THE HIGHWAY.
The post says they hit resume after they passed through the small coastal town. I assume they were on the highway.
Once I turn on my cruise control, I don't turn it off (it does reset to off when I cut off the car). The little doohickey that Toyota uses for the cruise control takes some getting use to. I am not even sure how to cut it off. It took me a few minutes just to figure out how to turn it on the first time I drove the SO's RAV4. I also wonder about the value of turning it off if this is a software problem. The cruise control switches are not actul hard switches like in the old days. They are just signaling devices that tell the computer you want the cruise control off. If the software is hosed up, that might not be any better than hitting the brakes. I guess I am starting to understand why Ford but that stupid hydraulic switch in the brake circuit....
I wonder if this isn't more of a panic problem than an actual car problem. Here is what I think may have happened...
The driver hit the resume button at a fairly low speed compared to the previous set point. If his Prius cruise control react anything like my SO's RAV4 (or my older Sister's RAV4) the computer tried to accelerate the car back up to the set point speed as quickly as possible (the SO's RAV4 reacts violently in this situation). When the car jerked and started accelerating hard to get back to the set point speed, the driver reacted improperly because he thought the car was running wild. Actually the computer was trying to get back to the old set point as quickly as possible. Because the driver thought the car was running wild he jammed on the brakes. He did get his foot on the brake pedal, but he also inadvertently pressed on the accelerator pedal as well. So while he thought he was braking hard, he was also pressing on the accelerator. At that point he was sure the car was running away and he pressed even harder, resulting in the situation described in the post. I don't know how the pedals are arranged in the Prius, but in the RAV4 this is something that can happen to someone with large feet. The pedals ae very close together and if you are not careful you can end up pressing both at once. And it is not just Toyotas that have this problem. An Expedition I owned had exactly the same problem...I could easily press both pedals at once in a panic situation.
This is starting to look like a lot of other media driven frenzies (Audi 5000, Chey truck gas tanks, Explorer Tires, etc.). The media over hypes the story, jumps to some erroneous conclusions, and people start crawling out of the woodwork claiming they have that problem also. And then the trial lawyer et involved and things go to s*%t. I already see Clarance Ditlow name in some articles on this subject. He is about as crooked a snake as ever slithered out from under a rock.
I have complained about how jerky and violent the RAV4 cruise control can be. Toyota has a service bulletin that addresses the concern. So far I have not been able to get the SO to take her RAV4 in to get it reprogrammed. I was talking to my sister about this whole cruise control concern the other night. I mentioned that I tried to get the SO to take in her RAV4 to get the cruise control reprogrammed. My sister said she didn't need to take hers in because the cruise control worked OK. I then mentioned how the SO's reacted in some situations (the violent acceleration) and she said, "oh yeah mine does that too"...and so she is going to take hers in to get it looked after. It is my thought that this violent reaction by the cruise control to resume under some conditions causes people to react improperly. Interestingly my other sister's RAV4 with the V6 does not react the same at all.
>>> But that's not what the Waltons believe. The couple from Boiling >>> Springs, >>> N.C., were driving to Murrells Inlet, S.C., Oct. 9 when their 2008 >>> Toyota >>> Prius surged on a marshy four-lane highway.
>>> It all started when, after slowing down through a small coastal >>> town, >>> Walton said he hit the resume-acceleration button on his cruise >>> control.
>>> "All of a sudden, we were flying and I hadn't touched the pedal," >>> said >>> Grover, a retired property manager. >> I'm certainly not the world's smartest person, but I know enough to >> TURN OFF THE CRUISE CONTROL WHEN I GET OFF THE HIGHWAY.
> The post says they hit resume after they passed through the small > coastal town. I assume they were on the highway.
> Once I turn on my cruise control, I don't turn it off (it does reset > to off when I cut off the car). The little doohickey that Toyota uses > for the cruise control takes some getting use to. I am not even sure > how to cut it off. It took me a few minutes just to figure out how to > turn it on the first time I drove the SO's RAV4. I also wonder about > the value of turning it off if this is a software problem. The cruise > control switches are not actul hard switches like in the old days. > They are just signaling devices that tell the computer you want the > cruise control off. If the software is hosed up, that might not be any > better than hitting the brakes. I guess I am starting to understand > why Ford but that stupid hydraulic switch in the brake circuit....
> I wonder if this isn't more of a panic problem than an actual car > problem. Here is what I think may have happened...
> The driver hit the resume button at a fairly low speed compared to the > previous set point. If his Prius cruise control react anything like my > SO's RAV4 (or my older Sister's RAV4) the computer tried to accelerate > the car back up to the set point speed as quickly as possible (the > SO's RAV4 reacts violently in this situation). When the car jerked and > started accelerating hard to get back to the set point speed, the > driver reacted improperly because he thought the car was running wild. > Actually the computer was trying to get back to the old set point as > quickly as possible. Because the driver thought the car was running > wild he jammed on the brakes. He did get his foot on the brake pedal, > but he also inadvertently pressed on the accelerator pedal as well. So > while he thought he was braking hard, he was also pressing on the > accelerator. At that point he was sure the car was running away and he > pressed even harder, resulting in the situation described in the post. > I don't know how the pedals are arranged in the Prius, but in the RAV4 > this is something that can happen to someone with large feet. The > pedals ae very close together and if you are not careful you can end > up pressing both at once. And it is not just Toyotas that have this > problem. An Expedition I owned had exactly the same problem...I could > easily press both pedals at once in a panic situation.
> This is starting to look like a lot of other media driven frenzies > (Audi 5000, Chey truck gas tanks, Explorer Tires, etc.). The media > over hypes the story, jumps to some erroneous conclusions, and people > start crawling out of the woodwork claiming they have that problem > also. And then the trial lawyer et involved and things go to s*%t. I > already see Clarance Ditlow name in some articles on this subject. He > is about as crooked a snake as ever slithered out from under a rock.
> I have complained about how jerky and violent the RAV4 cruise control > can be. Toyota has a service bulletin that addresses the concern. So > far I have not been able to get the SO to take her RAV4 in to get it > reprogrammed. I was talking to my sister about this whole cruise > control concern the other night. I mentioned that I tried to get the > SO to take in her RAV4 to get the cruise control reprogrammed. My > sister said she didn't need to take hers in because the cruise control > worked OK. I then mentioned how the SO's reacted in some situations > (the violent acceleration) and she said, "oh yeah mine does that > too"...and so she is going to take hers in to get it looked after. It > is my thought that this violent reaction by the cruise control to > resume under some conditions causes people to react improperly. > Interestingly my other sister's RAV4 with the V6 does not react the > same at all.
> Ed
DAMN! There's a reason we have BUS SERVICE in this country!!!
Hitting the brake should have shut off the CC function. Sounds to me like this guy should hand in his license or go for some more driver's training.
The Toyota CC does not clear the memory under 30 MPH like it used to, because it is now a computer based function rather than a vacuum based system. I noticed this with my Scion. If you hit RESUME, even accidently, this happens. There is a button on the END of the stalk to turn the CC off/on. When getting down from 70MPH, I either turn the switch OFF, or set the CC for ~25 MPH, or BOTH.
I have been doing this since I bought the car three years ago. Merely because I did not want to be involved in a 'runaway' situation.
All Toyota has to do is electronically cancel the resume function once a certain speed is reached, or so many MPH under the set speed.
>>> But that's not what the Waltons believe. The couple from Boiling >>> Springs, >>> N.C., were driving to Murrells Inlet, S.C., Oct. 9 when their 2008 >>> Toyota >>> Prius surged on a marshy four-lane highway.
>>> It all started when, after slowing down through a small coastal >>> town, >>> Walton said he hit the resume-acceleration button on his cruise >>> control.
>>> "All of a sudden, we were flying and I hadn't touched the pedal," >>> said >>> Grover, a retired property manager.
>> I'm certainly not the world's smartest person, but I know enough to >> TURN OFF THE CRUISE CONTROL WHEN I GET OFF THE HIGHWAY.
> The post says they hit resume after they passed through the small > coastal town. I assume they were on the highway.
> Once I turn on my cruise control, I don't turn it off (it does reset > to off when I cut off the car). The little doohickey that Toyota uses > for the cruise control takes some getting use to. I am not even sure > how to cut it off. It took me a few minutes just to figure out how to > turn it on the first time I drove the SO's RAV4. I also wonder about > the value of turning it off if this is a software problem. The cruise > control switches are not actul hard switches like in the old days. > They are just signaling devices that tell the computer you want the > cruise control off. If the software is hosed up, that might not be any > better than hitting the brakes. I guess I am starting to understand > why Ford but that stupid hydraulic switch in the brake circuit....
> I wonder if this isn't more of a panic problem than an actual car > problem. Here is what I think may have happened...
> The driver hit the resume button at a fairly low speed compared to the > previous set point. If his Prius cruise control react anything like my > SO's RAV4 (or my older Sister's RAV4) the computer tried to accelerate > the car back up to the set point speed as quickly as possible (the > SO's RAV4 reacts violently in this situation). When the car jerked and > started accelerating hard to get back to the set point speed, the > driver reacted improperly because he thought the car was running wild. > Actually the computer was trying to get back to the old set point as > quickly as possible. Because the driver thought the car was running > wild he jammed on the brakes. He did get his foot on the brake pedal, > but he also inadvertently pressed on the accelerator pedal as well. So > while he thought he was braking hard, he was also pressing on the > accelerator.
I don't see anything in the story about also pressing the accelerator. I think maybe somebody's assuming "facts not in evidence".
At any rate, pressing the brake pedal is supposed to (required to?) cut off the cruise control. Clearly from what is said in the story, it didn't. That's grounds for a recall right there.
> At that point he was sure the car was running away and he > pressed even harder, resulting in the situation described in the post. > I don't know how the pedals are arranged in the Prius, but in the RAV4 > this is something that can happen to someone with large feet. The > pedals ae very close together and if you are not careful you can end > up pressing both at once. And it is not just Toyotas that have this > problem. An Expedition I owned had exactly the same problem...I could > easily press both pedals at once in a panic situation.
> This is starting to look like a lot of other media driven frenzies > (Audi 5000, Chey truck gas tanks, Explorer Tires, etc.). The media > over hypes the story, jumps to some erroneous conclusions, and people > start crawling out of the woodwork claiming they have that problem > also. And then the trial lawyer et involved and things go to s*%t. I > already see Clarance Ditlow name in some articles on this subject. He > is about as crooked a snake as ever slithered out from under a rock.
> I have complained about how jerky and violent the RAV4 cruise control > can be. Toyota has a service bulletin that addresses the concern. So > far I have not been able to get the SO to take her RAV4 in to get it > reprogrammed. I was talking to my sister about this whole cruise > control concern the other night. I mentioned that I tried to get the > SO to take in her RAV4 to get the cruise control reprogrammed. My > sister said she didn't need to take hers in because the cruise control > worked OK. I then mentioned how the SO's reacted in some situations > (the violent acceleration) and she said, "oh yeah mine does that > too"...and so she is going to take hers in to get it looked after. It > is my thought that this violent reaction by the cruise control to > resume under some conditions causes people to react improperly. > Interestingly my other sister's RAV4 with the V6 does not react the > same at all.
> Ed
>> A lot of driving is just plain Common Sense. >> A lot of people just plain don't have it.
"E. Meyer" <epmeye...@gmail.com> wrote in message news:C7199E7D.136D9%
> At any rate, pressing the brake pedal is supposed to (required to?) cut > off > the cruise control. Clearly from what is said in the story, it didn't. > That's grounds for a recall right there.
We dont know that the cruise control is really at fault.
I dont think there is any ground for recall until the facts are known. There is a lot of speculation and there might be a problem, but we dont really know that yet. And a recall without a firm fix is wasted effort.
The implications are too big to suspect that this story will be swept under the carpet.
>>>> But that's not what the Waltons believe. The couple from Boiling >>>> Springs, >>>> N.C., were driving to Murrells Inlet, S.C., Oct. 9 when their >>>> 2008 >>>> Toyota >>>> Prius surged on a marshy four-lane highway.
>>>> It all started when, after slowing down through a small coastal >>>> town, >>>> Walton said he hit the resume-acceleration button on his cruise >>>> control.
>>>> "All of a sudden, we were flying and I hadn't touched the pedal," >>>> said >>>> Grover, a retired property manager.
>>> I'm certainly not the world's smartest person, but I know enough >>> to >>> TURN OFF THE CRUISE CONTROL WHEN I GET OFF THE HIGHWAY.
>> The post says they hit resume after they passed through the small >> coastal town. I assume they were on the highway.
>> Once I turn on my cruise control, I don't turn it off (it does >> reset >> to off when I cut off the car). The little doohickey that Toyota >> uses >> for the cruise control takes some getting use to. I am not even >> sure >> how to cut it off. It took me a few minutes just to figure out how >> to >> turn it on the first time I drove the SO's RAV4. I also wonder >> about >> the value of turning it off if this is a software problem. The >> cruise >> control switches are not actul hard switches like in the old days. >> They are just signaling devices that tell the computer you want the >> cruise control off. If the software is hosed up, that might not be >> any >> better than hitting the brakes. I guess I am starting to understand >> why Ford but that stupid hydraulic switch in the brake circuit....
>> I wonder if this isn't more of a panic problem than an actual car >> problem. Here is what I think may have happened...
>> The driver hit the resume button at a fairly low speed compared to >> the >> previous set point. If his Prius cruise control react anything like >> my >> SO's RAV4 (or my older Sister's RAV4) the computer tried to >> accelerate >> the car back up to the set point speed as quickly as possible (the >> SO's RAV4 reacts violently in this situation). When the car jerked >> and >> started accelerating hard to get back to the set point speed, the >> driver reacted improperly because he thought the car was running >> wild. >> Actually the computer was trying to get back to the old set point >> as >> quickly as possible. Because the driver thought the car was running >> wild he jammed on the brakes. He did get his foot on the brake >> pedal, >> but he also inadvertently pressed on the accelerator pedal as well. >> So >> while he thought he was braking hard, he was also pressing on the >> accelerator.
> I don't see anything in the story about also pressing the > accelerator. I > think maybe somebody's assuming "facts not in evidence".
Didn't you read the part where I said " Here is what I think may have happened..." I was postulating as to what might have happened. I am sure the person driving the car doesn't believe he had pressed both pedals at once..otherwise there would have been no story. If you remember the old Audi 5000 unintended acceleration case, it was eventually concluded that pressing both pedal inadvertently was the actual cause of the unintended accelration - although few if any of the people who had an accident becasue of the "unintended acceleration" ever admitted this was the case. However, once shift interlocks were insalled to prevent shifting the car into gear without pressing on the brake, the problem disappeared. I am thinking that if you pressed resume from a speed much lower than the set point speed and the car's cruise control jerked and/or accelrated roughly in an attempt to get back to the set point speed, a driver might panic and feel that the car was running away. As a response, the driver might accidentally (and unknowingly) press both pedals at the same time. If this happens, even though the cruise control disengaged, the acceleration continues because the driver's foot is pressing on both pedal. In fact, it might be worse - resulting in additional pressure on both pedals as the driver tries to control a car he feels is out of control. I have persoanlly done something similar when stopping at light...but knowing what had happened I did not compound the problem and nothing bad happened. Someone who gets confused and panics, might continue to press on both pedals. Just a theory.....it might be wrong, but I think it is possible.
> At any rate, pressing the brake pedal is supposed to (required to?) > cut off > the cruise control. Clearly from what is said in the story, it > didn't. > That's grounds for a recall right there.
Did you read my whole theory? One a paniced driver is pressing on both pedals at once, it doesn't matter whether the crusie contrl is engaged or not.
Again, just a theory. No proof. But then I haven't seen any proof that the crusie control was at fault either.
> DAMN! There's a reason we have BUS SERVICE in this country!!!
> Hitting the brake should have shut off the CC function. Sounds to me > like this guy should hand in his license or go for some more driver's > training.
Yes, without any actual investigative facts, it's starting to look to me like there was serious problems with the cruise control. After market self install is the phrase that comes to mind. Hardly a Toyota problem.
>> DAMN! There's a reason we have BUS SERVICE in this country!!!
>> Hitting the brake should have shut off the CC function. Sounds to me >> like this guy should hand in his license or go for some more driver's >> training.
> Yes, without any actual investigative facts, it's starting to look to me > like there was serious problems with the cruise control. After market self > install is the phrase that comes to mind. Hardly a Toyota problem.
I have noticed on our Avalon that, if you have touched the brakes and released the cruise control, when you return to the cruise from a low speed the car will accelerate rather vigorously. Vigorously enough to scare little old bluehaired ladies, but never really out of control.
One would think that this sort of rapid ramping would damage the economy, but it does not seem to do so. I constantly get 32 mpg on the highway with this car.
Having been in electronics repair early in my life, I very much appreciate the frustration that intermittent problems can cause., but I dont really believe that this is what is happening in this case.
>>> C. E. White wrote: >>>> "Hachiroku ????" <Tru...@e86.GTS> wrote in message >>>> news:pan.2009.11.06.03.44.33.372604@e86.GTS... >>>>> On Thu, 05 Nov 2009 21:05:22 -0800, john wrote:
>>> DAMN! There's a reason we have BUS SERVICE in this country!!!
>>> Hitting the brake should have shut off the CC function. Sounds to me >>> like this guy should hand in his license or go for some more driver's >>> training.
>> Yes, without any actual investigative facts, it's starting to look to >> me like there was serious problems with the cruise control. After >> market self install is the phrase that comes to mind. Hardly a Toyota >> problem.
> I have noticed on our Avalon that, if you have touched the brakes and > released the cruise control, when you return to the cruise from a low > speed the car will accelerate rather vigorously. Vigorously enough to > scare little old bluehaired ladies, but never really out of control.
> One would think that this sort of rapid ramping would damage the > economy, but it does not seem to do so. I constantly get 32 mpg on the > highway with this car.
> Having been in electronics repair early in my life, I very much > appreciate the frustration that intermittent problems can cause., but I > dont really believe that this is what is happening in this case.
> I feel that Toyota WILL get to the bottom of it.
They don't have a choice IMHO. The "furrin" hunters are out for them already. I *am* curious on the numbers however. How many Prius "unexplained" accidents versus any other car model in the the same time period. I have my suspicions that there is a lower number for the Toyota at the least.
>> DAMN! There's a reason we have BUS SERVICE in this country!!!
>> Hitting the brake should have shut off the CC function. Sounds to me >> like this guy should hand in his license or go for some more driver's >> training.
> Yes, without any actual investigative facts, it's starting to look to me > like there was serious problems with the cruise control. After market self > install is the phrase that comes to mind. Hardly a Toyota problem.
Not on a Prius. It's standard equipment.
I'd bet more Operator Error, myself.
Like I said, I always cancel the cruise AFTER resetting it to a lower speed!
> >> C. E. White wrote: > >>> "Hachiroku ????" <Tru...@e86.GTS> wrote in message > >>> news:pan.2009.11.06.03.44.33.372604@e86.GTS... > >>>> On Thu, 05 Nov 2009 21:05:22 -0800, john wrote:
> >> DAMN! There's a reason we have BUS SERVICE in this country!!!
> >> Hitting the brake should have shut off the CC function. Sounds to me > >> like this guy should hand in his license or go for some more driver's > >> training.
> > Yes, without any actual investigative facts, it's starting to look to me > > like there was serious problems with the cruise control. After market self > > install is the phrase that comes to mind. Hardly a Toyota problem.
> I have noticed on our Avalon that, if you have touched the brakes and > released the cruise control, when you return to the cruise from a low > speed the car will accelerate rather vigorously. Vigorously enough to > scare little old bluehaired ladies, but never really out of control.
> One would think that this sort of rapid ramping would damage the economy, > but it does not seem to do so. I constantly get 32 mpg on the highway > with this car.
> Having been in electronics repair early in my life, I very much appreciate > the frustration that intermittent problems can cause., but I dont really > believe that this is what is happening in this case.
> I feel that Toyota WILL get to the bottom of it.
Ford had a similar issue with cruise control resume acceleration rates on the Super Dutys which was resolved in a software update. I attribute these problems to outsourcing software development to third world countries where the programmers have probably never driven a car.
"Pete C." <aux3.DO...@snet.net> wrote in message news:4af5906e$0$15105
> Ford had a similar issue with cruise control resume acceleration rates > on the Super Dutys which was resolved in a software update. I attribute > these problems to outsourcing software development to third world > countries where the programmers have probably never driven a car.
I know what you mean.. Elephants are always on cruise control.
> "Pete C." <aux3.DO...@snet.net> wrote in message news:4af5906e$0$15105
>> Ford had a similar issue with cruise control resume acceleration rates >> on the Super Dutys which was resolved in a software update. I attribute >> these problems to outsourcing software development to third world >> countries where the programmers have probably never driven a car.
> I know what you mean.. Elephants are always on cruise control.
The also always have the right of way. Everywhere.
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