Just tried to read this. Won't rate it since I bogged down and just couldn't get thru it. I got about 250 pages in before giving up and tried skimming ahead to the end, but obviously missed way too much that way.
Has all the elements of a fantastic story. But just got bogged down in both the wordiness and my inability to keep the players straight. There were just too many factions for me to hold them all in my head as I read.
Anyone else read this? Enjoy it?
I was hoping for another great read along the lines of Anubis Gates and The Stress of her Regard.
--
-- Dennis/Endy9 ~Some will sink, but we will float. Grab your coat. Let's get out of here. You're my witness, I'm your Mutineer.~ Warren Zevon --
> Has all the elements of a fantastic story. But just got bogged down > in both the wordiness and my inability to keep the players straight. > There were just too many factions for me to hold them all in my head > as I read.
> Anyone else read this? Enjoy it?
In a causual reversal, I read this after Stross' "The Atrocity Archive" because it has enough similarities of plot that Stross was told on no account to read it while he was writing tAA because it would throw him off. I only read it once, but I had no problems and expect to read it again.
> Just tried to read this. Won't rate it since I bogged down and just couldn't > get thru it. I got about 250 pages in before giving up and tried skimming > ahead to the end, but obviously missed way too much that way.
> Has all the elements of a fantastic story. But just got bogged down in both > the wordiness and my inability to keep the players straight. There were > just too many factions for me to hold them all in my head as I read.
> Anyone else read this? Enjoy it?
> I was hoping for another great read along the lines of Anubis Gates and The > Stress of her Regard.
> --
> -- > Dennis/Endy9 > ~Some will sink, but we will float. Grab your coat. Let's get out of here. > You're my witness, I'm your Mutineer.~ Warren Zevon
Actually, I would rank it right up with the two titles you mention as being among Powers' best work. If you got 250 pages into it, you should just stick with it, it's worth the careful reading.
> Just tried to read this. Won't rate it since I bogged down and just > couldn't get thru it. I got about 250 pages in before giving up and > tried skimming ahead to the end, but obviously missed way too much > that way.
> Has all the elements of a fantastic story. But just got bogged down > in both the wordiness and my inability to keep the players straight. > There were just too many factions for me to hold them all in my head > as I read.
> Anyone else read this? Enjoy it?
Read it, loved it, read it again, bought two copies for friends.
> > Just tried to read this. Won't rate it since I bogged down and just > > couldn't get thru it. I got about 250 pages in before giving up and > > tried skimming ahead to the end, but obviously missed way too much > > that way.
> > Has all the elements of a fantastic story. But just got bogged down > > in both the wordiness and my inability to keep the players straight. > > There were just too many factions for me to hold them all in my head > > as I read.
> > Anyone else read this? Enjoy it?
> Read it, loved it, read it again, bought two copies for friends.
> It's my favourite Powers; am sorry YM V'd.
I love this book, devoured it at first reading, have red it twice again, and it's about due for another reading. I gave my copy to a friend.
I can't say it's my favorite, as Last Call, came to me first and put me under Power's spell with it's magical world under the surface of the real world trope. I do think Declare is the better book and it completely satisfies my "complexity craving", drawing me deep into it's world.
I've got to reread Three Days To Never as it totally suffered from my high expectations created by Declare.
On 2009-11-01 14:30:25 -0800, "Endymion9" <endymio...@comcast.net> said:
> Just tried to read this. Won't rate it since I bogged down and just > couldn't get thru it. I got about 250 pages in before giving up and > tried skimming ahead to the end, but obviously missed way too much that > way.
> Has all the elements of a fantastic story. But just got bogged down in > both the wordiness and my inability to keep the players straight. > There were just too many factions for me to hold them all in my head as > I read.
> Anyone else read this? Enjoy it?
> I was hoping for another great read along the lines of Anubis Gates and > The Stress of her Regard.
Just so you don't feel alone...
I had trouble with it, too. I liked the concepts, I liked the story, but somehow it just never came alive for me on the page.
I have a weird reaction to Powers -- for a while it seemed like I'd love a book of his, then find the next one I tried to read impenetrable, then love the next one, then find the next one hard to read, and so on. Like STAR TREK movies, with the odd/even thing reversed.
In the end, my reaction to DECLARE was that it was a solid, well-constructed story that I simply couldn't get absorbed in. Good ideas that someone didn't charm me.
So I ration out Powers, because I want to keep reading and find the ones I'll love, but I don't want to find myself in the middle of one of the ones I just can't get into.
I loved it. but then I've loved all the Powers I've read.
But.. I do recall that the first time I read The Anubis Gates I bounced off completely; it wasn't until a second reading that I liked that one. Mood? -- As we enjoy great advantages from the inventions of others, we should be glad of an opportunity to serve others by any invention of ours; and this we should do freely and generously. (Benjamin Franklin)
> I loved it. but then I've loved all the Powers I've read.
> But.. I do recall that the first time I read The Anubis Gates I bounced > off completely; it wasn't until a second reading that I liked that one. > Mood?
I had some of the same trouble with _Last Call_. It seemed unfocussed and uninteresting on first read. The second time through, I loved it.
It's just a thing.
--Z
-- "And Aholibamah bare Jeush, and Jaalam, and Korah: these were the borogoves..." *
Joe Pfeiffer wrote: > I loved it. but then I've loved all the Powers I've read.
> But.. I do recall that the first time I read The Anubis Gates I > bounced off completely; it wasn't until a second reading that I > liked > that one. Mood?
My almost invariable response to a Powers book is to like it more on rereading. Each one is different, and I think needs to be read with the right mindset: its own, rather than that of the previous book. I disliked Expiration Date exceedingly on the first read (thinking the whole "ghost inhaling" thing was stupid), but enjoyed it when reading the entire trilogy. (Earthier Weather seemed vey weak: too many similar characters, too much "let's try this spell next", but perhaps it will improve as well.)
> Joe Pfeiffer wrote: > > I loved it. but then I've loved all the Powers I've read.
> > But.. I do recall that the first time I read The Anubis Gates I > > bounced off completely; it wasn't until a second reading that I > > liked > > that one. Mood?
> My almost invariable response to a Powers book is to like it more on > rereading. Each one is different, and I think needs to be read with > the right mindset: its own, rather than that of the previous book. I > disliked Expiration Date exceedingly on the first read (thinking the > whole "ghost inhaling" thing was stupid), but enjoyed it when reading > the entire trilogy. (Earthier Weather seemed vey weak: too many > similar characters, too much "let's try this spell next", but perhaps > it will improve as well.)
While I always love certain Powers novels (On stranger tides and Anubis gates) the Fisher King trilogy which I read out of order has actually managed to go from disliked, loved, not as good as I remememered. Must be the only books i can think of where I have changed my mind twice regards Rex
>> Has all the elements of a fantastic story. But just got bogged down >> in both the wordiness and my inability to keep the players straight. >> There were just too many factions for me to hold them all in my head >> as I read.
>> Anyone else read this? Enjoy it?
> In a causual reversal, I read this after Stross' "The Atrocity Archive" > because it has enough similarities of plot that Stross was told on no > account to read it while he was writing tAA because it would throw him off. > I only read it once, but I had no problems and expect to read it again.
Another thing Stross said in that afterword was
Declare : The Atrocity Archives :: John Le Carre : Len Deighton [*]
(so to speak). I think that's pretty accurate, and although neither SF writer can entirely live up to the standard of their master, the fact that they are writing *SF* should compensate for that for the current audience :-) So it would be interesting to know if RASFW readers' preferences line up that way. I'm a Le Carre man myself, and _Declare_ wins over _The Atrocity Archives_ (but only on points, not by a knockout).
[*] Put that way rather than "Tim Powers : Charlie Stross", because if we include _The Jennifer Morgue_ we would have to bring in Ian Fleming.
> I've got to reread Three Days To Never as it totally suffered from my > high expectations created by Declare.
That's exactly what happened when my friend and I read _Three Days To Never_ right after _Declare_; I liked it more than she did but we both thought it could have done with a longer gestation time. Points for cool scary Dybbuk though....I think you might be right and it could do with a re-read...
>>> Has all the elements of a fantastic story. But just got bogged down >>> in both the wordiness and my inability to keep the players straight. >>> There were just too many factions for me to hold them all in my head >>> as I read.
>>> Anyone else read this? Enjoy it?
>> In a causual reversal, I read this after Stross' "The Atrocity >> Archive" because it has enough similarities of plot that Stross was >> told on no account to read it while he was writing tAA because it >> would throw him off. I only read it once, but I had no problems and >> expect to read it again.
> Another thing Stross said in that afterword was
> Declare : The Atrocity Archives :: John Le Carre : Len Deighton [*]
> (so to speak). I think that's pretty accurate, and although neither SF > writer can entirely live up to the standard of their master, the fact > that they are writing *SF* should compensate for that for the current > audience :-)
<grin> Oh, it more than compensated in this instance, for me at least!
> So it would be interesting to know if RASFW readers' > preferences line up that way. I'm a Le Carre man myself, and > _Declare_ wins over _The Atrocity Archives_ (but only on points, > not by a knockout).
Well, IMHO Le Carre > Deighton, and _Declare_ > _The Atrocity Archives_.
Although I enjoy both Le Carre (usually) and Deighton (sometimes; depends what he's writing), Powers (almost always) and Stross (sometimes a great deal, sometimes not much at all; depends what he's writing)....it's an "on points" thing for me too.
On Nov 1, 5:30 pm, "Endymion9" <endymio...@comcast.net> wrote:
> Just tried to read this. Won't rate it since I bogged down and just couldn't > get thru it. I got about 250 pages in before giving up and tried skimming > ahead to the end, but obviously missed way too much that way.
> Has all the elements of a fantastic story. But just got bogged down in both > the wordiness and my inability to keep the players straight. There were > just too many factions for me to hold them all in my head as I read.
> Anyone else read this? Enjoy it?
> I was hoping for another great read along the lines of Anubis Gates and The > Stress of her Regard.
I really liked Declare but could not finish The Stress of Her Regard. Sometimes Tim just puts too much stuff into his novels...
I have a similar experience to another poster. Read Stress of Her Regard and thought it was one of the best novels I'd ever read. Grabbed Deviant's Palace drooling and hated it and never could get far into it. Got Anubis Gates on recommendations and loved it. So grabbed Earthquake Weather and hated it and couldn't get far into it. So I guess it is a very YMMV depending on which book of his you pick up at which time.
--
-- Dennis/Endy9 ~Some will sink, but we will float. Grab your coat. Let's get out of here. You're my witness, I'm your Mutineer.~ Warren Zevon --
> I have a similar experience to another poster. Read Stress of Her > Regard and thought it was one of the best novels I'd ever read. > Grabbed Deviant's Palace drooling and hated it and never could get far > into it. Got Anubis Gates on recommendations and loved it. So > grabbed Earthquake Weather and hated it and couldn't get far into it. > So I guess it is a very YMMV depending on which book of his you pick > up at which time.
Am hoping it's time-dependent and not book-absolute (okay, I love almost all the Powers I've read, but I don't want to miss *any* for non- intrinsic reasons!), because there are some authors who seem to alternate between good & bad in an invariant, doesn't-matter-which-mood-you-were-in fashion.
Mary Gentle would be one example:
_Rats & Gargoyles_: Yay! _The Architecture of Desire_: SQUICK! _Ash_: Yay! _1610: A Sundial in a Grave_: SQUICK! _Ilario_: too scared to read it...
have left off the Orthe novels & _Left To His Own Devices_ as haven't got round to reading them yet, _Grunts_ because it sucked too much to actually be called a book, and _Scholars and Soldiers_ because a) it was a collection, and b) it was made of pretty and I couldn't fit it into the above pattern.
> >> Has all the elements of a fantastic story. But just got bogged down > >> in both the wordiness and my inability to keep the players straight. > >> There were just too many factions for me to hold them all in my head > >> as I read.
> >> Anyone else read this? Enjoy it?
> > In a causual reversal, I read this after Stross' "The Atrocity Archive" > > because it has enough similarities of plot that Stross was told on no > > account to read it while he was writing tAA because it would throw him off. > > I only read it once, but I had no problems and expect to read it again.
> Another thing Stross said in that afterword was
> Declare : The Atrocity Archives :: John Le Carre : Len Deighton [*]
> (so to speak). I think that's pretty accurate, and although neither SF > writer can entirely live up to the standard of their master, the fact > that they are writing *SF* should compensate for that for the current > audience :-) So it would be interesting to know if RASFW readers' > preferences line up that way. I'm a Le Carre man myself, and > _Declare_ wins over _The Atrocity Archives_ (but only on points, > not by a knockout).
> [*] Put that way rather than "Tim Powers : Charlie Stross", because if > we include _The Jennifer Morgue_ we would have to bring in Ian Fleming.
> -- > Chris Thompson > Email: cet1 [at] cam.ac.uk
An interesting comparison. I was impressed most by the virtuosic writing of Declare (and buttonholed Powers next time I saw him to tell him so). The control he displays is fantastic.
A possibly strange thing is that I didn't note any particular similarity to Atrocity Archives. I loved tAA for the way it refreshed the entire genre, and it made me look back on and re-evaluate things like "Magic, Inc." and Operation Chaos,and how a very underrated agenda of John Campbell's in 1939 is still rresonating into the 21st century. The same thoughts could be applied to Powers' iinterpenetration of the mundane and the magical, but I think Powers' world is so uniquely Powers' that perhaps comparisons dont leap to mind.
In message <uuWdnXPp04NjlnPXnZ2dnUVZ_hSdn...@giganews.com> "Endymion9" <endymio...@comcast.net> wrote:
> Just tried to read this. Won't rate it since I bogged down and just couldn't > get thru it. I got about 250 pages in before giving up and tried skimming > ahead to the end, but obviously missed way too much that way. > > Has all the elements of a fantastic story. But just got bogged down in both > the wordiness and my inability to keep the players straight. There were > just too many factions for me to hold them all in my head as I read. > > Anyone else read this? Enjoy it?
I managed to get to the end but so far haven't felt tempted to reread it. The supposedly British main character just wasn't, and the mistakes kept jarring me out of any WSoD I'd managed to build up. As one example having a character waiting for a check instead of a cheque is just about tolerable, having them tell someone else they're waiting for one in the mail isn't. Small things, but far too many of them.
On Nov 2, 9:40 am, Anthony Frost <Vu...@vulch.org> wrote:
> having a character waiting for a check instead of a cheque is > just about tolerable, having them tell someone else they're waiting for > one in the mail isn't. Small things, but far too many of them.
Is that testimony to the efficiency of the British Postal Service?
On Nov 2, 10:32 am, "Endymion9" <endymio...@comcast.net> wrote:
> Thanks for the feedback everyone.
> I have a similar experience to another poster. Read Stress of Her Regard > and thought it was one of the best novels I'd ever read. Grabbed Deviant's > Palace drooling and hated it and never could get far into it. Got Anubis > Gates on recommendations and loved it. So grabbed Earthquake Weather and > hated it and couldn't get far into it. So I guess it is a very YMMV > depending on which book of his you pick up at which time.
Mileage does vary, but a very rough guide to Powers might look something like this:
1. _The Skies Discrowned_ (later rewritten and published as _Forsake the Sky_) and _Epitaph in Rust_ (later rewritten and published as _An Epitaph in Rust_), both 1976. Early/minor. 2. _The Drawing of the Dark_, 1979. Shows promise and foreshadows some of the themes that Powers would develop later. 3. _The Anubis Gates_, 1983. The book that put Powers on everyone's map, probably his masterpiece. 4. _Dinner at Deviant's Palace_, 1985. Off-beat and rather atypical for Powers. Some people like it, some people dislike/hate it. 5. _On Stranger Tides_, 1987. A generally well liked solid novel, but then again, it's about pirates :) 6. _The Stress of Her Regard_, 1989. Although well written, this novel seems to work for some people, but not for others. 7. _Last Call_, 1992. Generally very well received. 8. _Expiration Date_, 1995, and _Earthquake Weather_, 1997. Related to _Last Call_, but not as well regarded as LC. 9. _Declare_, 2000. Very well received with only a few quibbles here and there. 10. _Three Days to Never_, 2006. Disappointing after a long hiatus.
If this is within the ballpark, then a reading list might look something like this:
1. _The Anubis Gates_ 2. _Declare_ 3. _Last Call_ 4. _On Stranger Tides_ 5. _The Stress of Her Regard_ 6. _The Drawing of the Dark_ 7. _Expiration Date_ 8. _Earthquake Weather_ 9. _Three Days to Never_ 10. _Dinner at Deviant's Palace_ 11. _Forsake the Sky_ 12. _An Epitaph in Rust_
On Mon, 02 Nov 2009 08:55:34 -0600, Johnny Tindalos <Jamai...@UnrealEmail.arg> wrote:
> Mary Gentle would be one example:
> _Rats & Gargoyles_: Yay! > _The Architecture of Desire_: SQUICK! > _Ash_: Yay! > _1610: A Sundial in a Grave_: SQUICK! > _Ilario_: too scared to read it...
I would say that _Ilario_ is a Yay! even though I didn't have the Squick! reactions you did. Not as good as _Ash_ but still pretty much up there.
-- Andy Leighton => an...@azaal.plus.com "The Lord is my shepherd, but we still lost the sheep dog trials" - Robert Rankin, _They Came And Ate Us_
> On Mon, 02 Nov 2009 08:55:34 -0600, > Johnny Tindalos <Jamai...@UnrealEmail.arg> wrote: > > Mary Gentle would be one example:
> > _Rats & Gargoyles_: Yay! > > _The Architecture of Desire_: SQUICK! > > _Ash_: Yay! > > _1610: A Sundial in a Grave_: SQUICK!
I grok that categorization. Not so much "squick" as "the author's misanthropy has broken the levees and flooded the book."
> > _Ilario_: too scared to read it...
> I would say that _Ilario_ is a Yay! even though I didn't have the Squick! > reactions you did. Not as good as _Ash_ but still pretty much up there.
Better than _Ash_, I thought. And much better than _R&G_, which was a feast of wonderful ideas that would have been even better if they'd been made into a novel.
_Ilario_ is the book where Gentle takes her acute perception of humanity's flaws -- see above -- and builds it into a powerful story about humans, rather than just waving it around on a stick and spitting at the audience.
(I've seen people argue that _Ilario_ is too much idiot-plotting, but I've never been good at noticing that.) (Punchlines fall where ye will.)
--Z
-- "And Aholibamah bare Jeush, and Jaalam, and Korah: these were the borogoves..." *
On Mon, 02 Nov 2009 08:22:25 -0800, Ahasuerus wrote: > Mileage does vary, but a very rough guide to Powers might look > something like this:
Thanks for this. I too found it useful.
2. _Declare_
Going on my Christmas list, thank you.
I'm just not getting _Expiration Date_, although I quite liked _Earthquake Weather_ perhaps I should add _Last Call_ too.
-- ======================================================================= = David --- If you use Microsoft products, you will, inevitably, get = Mitchell --- viruses, so please don't add me to your address book. =======================================================================
<david.robot.mitch...@googlemail.com> wrote: > On Mon, 02 Nov 2009 08:22:25 -0800, Ahasuerus wrote: > > Mileage does vary, but a very rough guide to Powers might look > > something like this:
> Thanks for this. I too found it useful.
> 2. _Declare_
> Going on my Christmas list, thank you.
> I'm just not getting _Expiration Date_, although I quite liked > _Earthquake Weather_ perhaps I should add _Last Call_ too.
> -- > ======================================================================= > = David --- If you use Microsoft products, you will, inevitably, get > = Mitchell --- viruses, so please don't add me to your address book. > =======================================================================
I found both books made much more sense after I read Last Call
Ahasuerus wrote: > On Nov 2, 10:32 am, "Endymion9" <endymio...@comcast.net> wrote: >> Thanks for the feedback everyone.
>> I have a similar experience to another poster. Read Stress of Her >> Regard and thought it was one of the best novels I'd ever read. >> Grabbed Deviant's Palace drooling and hated it and never could get >> far into it. Got Anubis Gates on recommendations and loved it. So >> grabbed Earthquake Weather and hated it and couldn't get far into >> it. So I guess it is a very YMMV depending on which book of his you >> pick up at which time.
> Mileage does vary, but a very rough guide to Powers might look > something like this:
> 1. _The Skies Discrowned_ (later rewritten and published as _Forsake > the Sky_) and Epitaph in Rust (later rewritten and published as _An > Epitaph in Rust_), both 1976. Early/minor. > 4. _Dinner at Deviant's Palace_, 1985. Off-beat and rather atypical > for Powers. Some people like it, some people dislike/hate it.
Atypical for mature Powers, though not that far from the first two, which are also SF (as opposed to Fantasy) and have the same odd mixture of the future, the Middle Ages, and monsters.
|
