> On Nov 5, 1:27 am, philosophy <smwil...@tpg.com.au> wrote:
> > > But you don't understand my question... Did the ask you to die for
> > > Allah or Jesus?
> > > The latter seem to have chosen this path himself, and I can see
> > > Christians someday blowing up themselves...
> > > "And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of
> > > their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death"
> > > (Revelation12:11).
> > Which, when using the Pesher technique, and turning it back to the
> > actual
> > reason it was written, a history, it becomes:
> Who claimed that Revelations was written as a history?
> > Then Antipas caused the dismissal of Ananus, who presided at the
> > village communion meal with Jacob-Heli. Joseph, who acted as head
> > of pilgrims, supported Antipas. Antipas in Rome would not admit
> > Agrippa to his midnight Agape meals, and caused him to be
> > excommunicated by the chief Magus.
> > Barbara Thiering "Jesus of the Acopalypse" Page 328.
> Hum, here is what I found about her on Wiki:
> "
> In books and scholarly articles, author Barbara Thiering peculiarly
> applies the term pesher to her elaborate, newly "rediscovered"
> interpretive technique. According to her, in the four Canonical
> Gospels, Acts and Revelation, historical facts have been encoded into
> the text, that is, they were written (and may be revealed) by applying
> the method, forgotten for twenty centuries.
> Her theory has been widely disparaged and dismissed by scholars, and
> Thiering's thesis has received little support. Although she alleges
> use of the pesher technique in the New Testament (and mention of it
> among the Dead Sea Scrolls), there is no Hebrew term in New Testament
> texts and apocrypha corresponding to it.
> "
> (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pesher#Barbara_Thiering.27s_usage)
> _________________________________________________
> Beliefs are what divide people. Doubt unites them.
> -- Peter Ustinov
> > > > But you don't understand my question... Did the ask you to die for
> > > > Allah or Jesus?
> > > > The latter seem to have chosen this path himself, and I can see
> > > > Christians someday blowing up themselves...
> > > > "And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of
> > > > their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death"
> > > > (Revelation12:11).
> > > Which, when using the Pesher technique, and turning it back to the
> > > actual
> > > reason it was written, a history, it becomes:
> > Who claimed that Revelations was written as a history?
Hum, that would be a little circular, would it not?
__________________________________________
Science means simply the aggregate of all the recipes that are always
successful. All the rest is literature.
-- Paul Valéry
> On Nov 6, 5:28 pm, philosophy <smwil...@tpg.com.au> wrote:
> > > > > But you don't understand my question... Did the ask you to die for
> > > > > Allah or Jesus?
> > > > > The latter seem to have chosen this path himself, and I can see
> > > > > Christians someday blowing up themselves...
> > > > > "And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of
> > > > > their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death"
> > > > > (Revelation12:11).
> > > > Which, when using the Pesher technique, and turning it back to the
> > > > actual
> > > > reason it was written, a history, it becomes:
> > > Who claimed that Revelations was written as a history?
> Hum, that would be a little circular, would it not?
Not necessarily. It depends on your perception.
Take the Thalidomide debacle here in Australia where an eminent
scientist William McBride was found by his main assistant (I think his
name was Phil Vardy) to be "cooking the books". Vardy, after a lot of
soul searching "outed" McBride. Thalidomide caused a lot of birth
defects. It is used in some medical conditions and has its place, but
not with developing foetuses.
I think one really has to look critically at the times anything is
written in. Why was there apparently so much convoluted and
conflicting crap written in the NT? It does not present as being
logical. So, let's look a little deeper.
Scientists may be scientists, but they are also human and some don't
have the stamina that is required for rigorous, unbiased reporting.
> __________________________________________
> Science means simply the aggregate of all the recipes that are always
> successful. All the rest is literature.
> -- Paul Valéry
> > > > > > But you don't understand my question... Did the ask you to die for
> > > > > > Allah or Jesus?
> > > > > > The latter seem to have chosen this path himself, and I can see
> > > > > > Christians someday blowing up themselves...
> > > > > > "And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of
> > > > > > their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death"
> > > > > > (Revelation12:11).
> > > > > Which, when using the Pesher technique, and turning it back to the
> > > > > actual
> > > > > reason it was written, a history, it becomes:
> > > > Who claimed that Revelations was written as a history?
> > Hum, that would be a little circular, would it not?
> Not necessarily. It depends on your perception.
Actually, I was referring to the fact tat I posted a critque of the
method your professor uses, but to refute that critique, you posted a
text that same professor wrote...
> Take the Thalidomide debacle here in Australia where an eminent
> scientist William McBride was found by his main assistant (I think his
> name was Phil Vardy) to be "cooking the books". Vardy, after a lot of
> soul searching "outed" McBride. Thalidomide caused a lot of birth
> defects. It is used in some medical conditions and has its place, but
> not with developing foetuses.
> I think one really has to look critically at the times anything is
> written in. Why was there apparently so much convoluted and
> conflicting crap written in the NT? It does not present as being
> logical. So, let's look a little deeper.
There are very well understood and logical reasons for that, no need
for some mysterious forgotten cabalistic technique from 2,000 years
ago.
> Scientists may be scientists, but they are also human and some don't
> have the stamina that is required for rigorous, unbiased reporting.
__________________________________________
Science means simply the aggregate of all the recipes that are always
successful. All the rest is literature.
-- Paul Valéry
Why, why, why?
We ask the questions, and then cannot seem to find the answers.
Why is it that we cannot take the oldest books we have and see if their is a
gleam of truth to be found that would explain some of the why's that science
not only doesn't ask, but doesn't seem to be able to answer?
The hows and whys of everything need to be answered to perfection.
On Sat, Nov 7, 2009 at 10:41 PM, Answer_42 <ipu.belie...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Nov 7, 3:54 pm, philosophy <smwil...@tpg.com.au> wrote:
> > > > > > > But you don't understand my question... Did the ask you to die
> for
> > > > > > > Allah or Jesus?
> > > > > > > The latter seem to have chosen this path himself, and I can see
> > > > > > > Christians someday blowing up themselves...
> > > > > > > "And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the
> word of
> > > > > > > their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death"
> > > > > > > (Revelation12:11).
> > > > > > Which, when using the Pesher technique, and turning it back to
> the
> > > > > > actual
> > > > > > reason it was written, a history, it becomes:
> > > > > Who claimed that Revelations was written as a history?
> > > Hum, that would be a little circular, would it not?
> > Not necessarily. It depends on your perception.
> Actually, I was referring to the fact tat I posted a critque of the
> method your professor uses, but to refute that critique, you posted a
> text that same professor wrote...
> > Take the Thalidomide debacle here in Australia where an eminent
> > scientist William McBride was found by his main assistant (I think his
> > name was Phil Vardy) to be "cooking the books". Vardy, after a lot of
> > soul searching "outed" McBride. Thalidomide caused a lot of birth
> > defects. It is used in some medical conditions and has its place, but
> > not with developing foetuses.
> > I think one really has to look critically at the times anything is
> > written in. Why was there apparently so much convoluted and
> > conflicting crap written in the NT? It does not present as being
> > logical. So, let's look a little deeper.
> There are very well understood and logical reasons for that, no need
> for some mysterious forgotten cabalistic technique from 2,000 years
> ago.
> > Scientists may be scientists, but they are also human and some don't
> > have the stamina that is required for rigorous, unbiased reporting.
> __________________________________________
> Science means simply the aggregate of all the recipes that are always
> successful. All the rest is literature.
> -- Paul Valéry
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "Atheism vs Christianity" group.
> To post to this group, send email to
> atheism-vs-christianity@googlegroups.com.
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> atheism-vs-christianity+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com<atheism-vs-christianit y%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups.com>
> .
> For more options, visit this group at
> http://groups.google.com/group/atheism-vs-christianity?hl=en.
On Nov 9, 2:17 am, thea <thea.n...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Why, why, why?
Thea, I would rather ask the questions and find logical explanations
than live in some la la land I have no relation to in this reality.
I make sense of my world - not loose myself in some mystical
place in my mind, of my own making. Your way is too easy.
I takes no effort to actually adjust to the here and now. I
choose to see reality as it is. Not take out an insurance policy
for something that probably doesn't exist.
I trust that is a good enough explanation for you?
> We ask the questions, and then cannot seem to find the answers.
> Why is it that we cannot take the oldest books we have and see if their is a
> gleam of truth to be found that would explain some of the why's that science
> not only doesn't ask, but doesn't seem to be able to answer?
> The hows and whys of everything need to be answered to perfection.
> On Sat, Nov 7, 2009 at 10:41 PM, Answer_42 <ipu.belie...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Nov 7, 3:54 pm, philosophy <smwil...@tpg.com.au> wrote:
> > > > > > > > But you don't understand my question... Did the ask you to die
> > for
> > > > > > > > Allah or Jesus?
> > > > > > > > The latter seem to have chosen this path himself, and I can see
> > > > > > > > Christians someday blowing up themselves...
> > > > > > > > "And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the
> > word of
> > > > > > > > their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death"
> > > > > > > > (Revelation12:11).
> > > > > > > Which, when using the Pesher technique, and turning it back to
> > the
> > > > > > > actual
> > > > > > > reason it was written, a history, it becomes:
> > > > > > Who claimed that Revelations was written as a history?
> > > > Hum, that would be a little circular, would it not?
> > > Not necessarily. It depends on your perception.
> > Actually, I was referring to the fact tat I posted a critque of the
> > method your professor uses, but to refute that critique, you posted a
> > text that same professor wrote...
> > > Take the Thalidomide debacle here in Australia where an eminent
> > > scientist William McBride was found by his main assistant (I think his
> > > name was Phil Vardy) to be "cooking the books". Vardy, after a lot of
> > > soul searching "outed" McBride. Thalidomide caused a lot of birth
> > > defects. It is used in some medical conditions and has its place, but
> > > not with developing foetuses.
> > > I think one really has to look critically at the times anything is
> > > written in. Why was there apparently so much convoluted and
> > > conflicting crap written in the NT? It does not present as being
> > > logical. So, let's look a little deeper.
> > There are very well understood and logical reasons for that, no need
> > for some mysterious forgotten cabalistic technique from 2,000 years
> > ago.
> > > Scientists may be scientists, but they are also human and some don't
> > > have the stamina that is required for rigorous, unbiased reporting.
> > __________________________________________
> > Science means simply the aggregate of all the recipes that are always
> > successful. All the rest is literature.
> > -- Paul Valéry
> > --
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> > "Atheism vs Christianity" group.
> > To post to this group, send email to
> > atheism-vs-christianity@googlegroups.com.
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> > atheism-vs-christianity+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com<atheism-vs-christianit y%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups.com>
> > .
> > For more options, visit this group at
> >http://groups.google.com/group/atheism-vs-christianity?hl=en.
Philosophy: I believe that there are answers for every problem we have --
we just don't have the knowledge at our finger tips. Some of the knowledge
we need, has been lived in the lives of those who lived before us - and we
failed to get their knowledge or to incorporate it into our lives correctly
- and that much of this mess we find ourselves in is because we have failed
to listen to past generations.
My grandparents had a raft of knowledge - and I was able to get some -- but
not all that they knew.
Here in the US in 1900 it was against the law for a doctor to tell you how
to keep from having another child.
We have come a long way - but were there reasons for the law - what did they
know when they made this law that we don't know.
On Sun, Nov 8, 2009 at 2:50 PM, philosophy <smwil...@tpg.com.au> wrote:
> On Nov 9, 2:17 am, thea <thea.n...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Why, why, why?
> Thea, I would rather ask the questions and find logical explanations
> than live in some la la land I have no relation to in this reality.
> I make sense of my world - not loose myself in some mystical
> place in my mind, of my own making. Your way is too easy.
> I takes no effort to actually adjust to the here and now. I
> choose to see reality as it is. Not take out an insurance policy
> for something that probably doesn't exist.
> I trust that is a good enough explanation for you?
> > We ask the questions, and then cannot seem to find the answers.
> > Why is it that we cannot take the oldest books we have and see if their
> is a
> > gleam of truth to be found that would explain some of the why's that
> science
> > not only doesn't ask, but doesn't seem to be able to answer?
> > The hows and whys of everything need to be answered to perfection.
> > On Sat, Nov 7, 2009 at 10:41 PM, Answer_42 <ipu.belie...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > > On Nov 7, 3:54 pm, philosophy <smwil...@tpg.com.au> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > But you don't understand my question... Did the ask you to
> die
> > > for
> > > > > > > > > Allah or Jesus?
> > > > > > > > > The latter seem to have chosen this path himself, and I can
> see
> > > > > > > > > Christians someday blowing up themselves...
> > > > > > > > > "And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the
> > > word of
> > > > > > > > > their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the
> death"
> > > > > > > > > (Revelation12:11).
> > > > > > > > Which, when using the Pesher technique, and turning it back
> to
> > > the
> > > > > > > > actual
> > > > > > > > reason it was written, a history, it becomes:
> > > > > > > Who claimed that Revelations was written as a history?
> > > > > Hum, that would be a little circular, would it not?
> > > > Not necessarily. It depends on your perception.
> > > Actually, I was referring to the fact tat I posted a critque of the
> > > method your professor uses, but to refute that critique, you posted a
> > > text that same professor wrote...
> > > > Take the Thalidomide debacle here in Australia where an eminent
> > > > scientist William McBride was found by his main assistant (I think
> his
> > > > name was Phil Vardy) to be "cooking the books". Vardy, after a lot of
> > > > soul searching "outed" McBride. Thalidomide caused a lot of birth
> > > > defects. It is used in some medical conditions and has its place,
> but
> > > > not with developing foetuses.
> > > > I think one really has to look critically at the times anything is
> > > > written in. Why was there apparently so much convoluted and
> > > > conflicting crap written in the NT? It does not present as being
> > > > logical. So, let's look a little deeper.
> > > There are very well understood and logical reasons for that, no need
> > > for some mysterious forgotten cabalistic technique from 2,000 years
> > > ago.
> > > > Scientists may be scientists, but they are also human and some don't
> > > > have the stamina that is required for rigorous, unbiased reporting.
> > > __________________________________________
> > > Science means simply the aggregate of all the recipes that are always
> > > successful. All the rest is literature.
> > > -- Paul Valéry
> > > --
> > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> Groups
> > > "Atheism vs Christianity" group.
> > > To post to this group, send email to
> > > atheism-vs-christianity@googlegroups.com.
> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> > > atheism-vs-christianity+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com<atheism-vs-christianit y%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups.com>
> <atheism-vs-christianity%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups.com<atheism-vs-christia nity%252Bunsubscribe@googlegroups.com>
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "Atheism vs Christianity" group.
> To post to this group, send email to
> atheism-vs-christianity@googlegroups.com.
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> atheism-vs-christianity+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com<atheism-vs-christianit y%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups.com>
> .
> For more options, visit this group at
> http://groups.google.com/group/atheism-vs-christianity?hl=en.
On Nov 8, 5:02 pm, thea <thea.n...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Philosophy: I believe that there are answers for every problem we have --
> we just don't have the knowledge at our finger tips. Some of the knowledge
> we need, has been lived in the lives of those who lived before us - and we
> failed to get their knowledge or to incorporate it into our lives correctly
> - and that much of this mess we find ourselves in is because we have failed
> to listen to past generations.
> My grandparents had a raft of knowledge - and I was able to get some -- but
> not all that they knew.
> Here in the US in 1900 it was against the law for a doctor to tell you how
> to keep from having another child.
> We have come a long way - but were there reasons for the law -
On Nov 9, 11:02 am, thea <thea.n...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Philosophy: I believe that there are answers for every problem we have --
So do I Thea. We just find them in different places. Having computer
problems at the moment, so need a Techie. Can't see God fixing it for
me -
chuckle. Mind you, if I could get the old fella to work a miracle, it
wouldn't
cost me, would it. Now there's a thought - God, a way to keep the
bills
from coming in. When you've nutted that one out Thea, I'll be
interested:-)
> we just don't have the knowledge at our finger tips. Some of the knowledge
> we need, has been lived in the lives of those who lived before us - and we
> failed to get their knowledge or to incorporate it into our lives correctly
> - and that much of this mess we find ourselves in is because we have failed
> to listen to past generations.
> My grandparents had a raft of knowledge - and I was able to get some -- but
> not all that they knew.
> Here in the US in 1900 it was against the law for a doctor to tell you how
> to keep from having another child.
> We have come a long way - but were there reasons for the law - what did they
> know when they made this law that we don't know.
> On Sun, Nov 8, 2009 at 2:50 PM, philosophy <smwil...@tpg.com.au> wrote:
> > On Nov 9, 2:17 am, thea <thea.n...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > Why, why, why?
> > Thea, I would rather ask the questions and find logical explanations
> > than live in some la la land I have no relation to in this reality.
> > I make sense of my world - not loose myself in some mystical
> > place in my mind, of my own making. Your way is too easy.
> > I takes no effort to actually adjust to the here and now. I
> > choose to see reality as it is. Not take out an insurance policy
> > for something that probably doesn't exist.
> > I trust that is a good enough explanation for you?
> > > We ask the questions, and then cannot seem to find the answers.
> > > Why is it that we cannot take the oldest books we have and see if their
> > is a
> > > gleam of truth to be found that would explain some of the why's that
> > science
> > > not only doesn't ask, but doesn't seem to be able to answer?
> > > The hows and whys of everything need to be answered to perfection.
> > > On Sat, Nov 7, 2009 at 10:41 PM, Answer_42 <ipu.belie...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > > > On Nov 7, 3:54 pm, philosophy <smwil...@tpg.com.au> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > But you don't understand my question... Did the ask you to
> > die
> > > > for
> > > > > > > > > > Allah or Jesus?
> > > > > > > > > > The latter seem to have chosen this path himself, and I can
> > see
> > > > > > > > > > Christians someday blowing up themselves...
> > > > > > > > > > "And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the
> > > > word of
> > > > > > > > > > their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the
> > death"
> > > > > > > > > > (Revelation12:11).
> > > > > > > > > Which, when using the Pesher technique, and turning it back
> > to
> > > > the
> > > > > > > > > actual
> > > > > > > > > reason it was written, a history, it becomes:
> > > > > > > > Who claimed that Revelations was written as a history?
> > > > > > Hum, that would be a little circular, would it not?
> > > > > Not necessarily. It depends on your perception.
> > > > Actually, I was referring to the fact tat I posted a critque of the
> > > > method your professor uses, but to refute that critique, you posted a
> > > > text that same professor wrote...
> > > > > Take the Thalidomide debacle here in Australia where an eminent
> > > > > scientist William McBride was found by his main assistant (I think
> > his
> > > > > name was Phil Vardy) to be "cooking the books". Vardy, after a lot of
> > > > > soul searching "outed" McBride. Thalidomide caused a lot of birth
> > > > > defects. It is used in some medical conditions and has its place,
> > but
> > > > > not with developing foetuses.
> > > > > I think one really has to look critically at the times anything is
> > > > > written in. Why was there apparently so much convoluted and
> > > > > conflicting crap written in the NT? It does not present as being
> > > > > logical. So, let's look a little deeper.
> > > > There are very well understood and logical reasons for that, no need
> > > > for some mysterious forgotten cabalistic technique from 2,000 years
> > > > ago.
> > > > > Scientists may be scientists, but they are also human and some don't
> > > > > have the stamina that is required for rigorous, unbiased reporting.
> > > > __________________________________________
> > > > Science means simply the aggregate of all the recipes that are always
> > > > successful. All the rest is literature.
> > > > -- Paul Valéry
> > > > --
> > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> > Groups
> > > > "Atheism vs Christianity" group.
> > > > To post to this group, send email to
> > > > atheism-vs-christianity@googlegroups.com.
> > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> > > > atheism-vs-christianity+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com<atheism-vs-christianit y%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups.com>
> > <atheism-vs-christianity%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups.com<atheism-vs-christia nity%252Bunsubscribe@googlegroups.com>
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> > "Atheism vs Christianity" group.
> > To post to this group, send email to
> > atheism-vs-christianity@googlegroups.com.
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> > atheism-vs-christianity+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com<atheism-vs-christianit y%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups.com>
> > .
> > For more options, visit this group at
> >http://groups.google.com/group/atheism-vs-christianity?hl=en.
|
