"One of themselves, a prophet of their own, said,"Cretans are always liars, evil beasts, lazy gluttons." This testimony is true."
If the Cretan Paul quoted was a truth-teller, then what the Cretan said (i.e. that all members of the class he belonged to are non-truth-tellers), cannot be the truth. If the Cretan was a liar, then, for the thing he said to be a lie, the Cretan would have to have been a truth-teller. Either way, the proposition contradicts itself, and is incapable of being simply true or false. But Paul declared it to be simply true, and did so purporting to speak inerrantly for the God who cannot "lie" (Heb. 6:18). For one of only two or three times that Paul committed himself on a question of fact to turn out to be a piece of semantic trickery, gives us an indirect indication of the third kind, that our leg is being pulled.
Titus 1:12 is a logical paradox. It cannot be either true or false.
n Romans 3:7 Paul's confession that he told lies so that he might better spread the 'truth of God' is probably the only truth that he ever uttered. To make it worse we then find Paul saying, essentially, "I say the truth in Christ, I lie not." (in Romans 9:1, Galatians 1:20, and 2 Corinthians 11:31).
Trustworthiness.
-- "The mind is everything. What you think you become."
[Buddha]
yawn. if all you have to complain about is the words in the bible, you
are not very interested in conversing with xtians, just putting down a
book that many xtians do not follow daily. the bible is not the only
reason people are xtians. they are not all scared into belief and many
never go to church because they dont buy the dogma. they realize it is
all man-made. why dont you?
On Nov 7, 7:49 am, Simon Ewins <sjew...@gmail.com> wrote:
> "One of themselves, a prophet of their own, said,"Cretans are always liars, evil beasts, lazy gluttons." This testimony is true."
> If the Cretan Paul quoted was a truth-teller, then what the Cretan said (i.e. that all members of the class he belonged to are non-truth-tellers), cannot be the truth. If the Cretan was a liar, then, for the thing he said to be a lie, the Cretan would have to have been a truth-teller. Either way, the proposition contradicts itself, and is incapable of being simply true or false. But Paul declared it to be simply true, and did so purporting to speak inerrantly for the God who cannot "lie" (Heb. 6:18). For one of only two or three times that Paul committed himself on a question of fact to turn out to be a piece of semantic trickery, gives us an indirect indication of the third kind, that our leg is being pulled.
> Titus 1:12 is a logical paradox. It cannot be either true or false.
> n Romans 3:7 Paul's confession that he told lies so that he might better spread the 'truth of God' is probably the only truth that he ever uttered. To make it worse we then find Paul saying, essentially, "I say the truth in Christ, I lie not." (in Romans 9:1, Galatians 1:20, and 2 Corinthians 11:31).
> Trustworthiness.
> --
> "The mind is everything. What you think you become."
> [Buddha]
> yawn. if all you have to complain about is the words in the bible, you
> are not very interested in conversing with xtians, just putting down a
> book that many xtians do not follow daily. the bible is not the only
> reason people are xtians. they are not all scared into belief and many
> never go to church because they dont buy the dogma. they realize it is
> all man-made. why dont you?
I do. These (and there will be more) are the evidence of the manmade origins of the Bible.
If they make you sleepy, just go have a nap.
I have many things to complain about, this is just one. I will get around to them all eventually.
> On Nov 7, 7:49 am, Simon Ewins <sjew...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Titus 1:12
>> "One of themselves, a prophet of their own, said,"Cretans are always liars, evil beasts, lazy gluttons." This testimony is true."
>> If the Cretan Paul quoted was a truth-teller, then what the Cretan said (i.e. that all members of the class he belonged to are non-truth-tellers), cannot be the truth. If the Cretan was a liar, then, for the thing he said to be a lie, the Cretan would have to have been a truth-teller. Either way, the proposition contradicts itself, and is incapable of being simply true or false. But Paul declared it to be simply true, and did so purporting to speak inerrantly for the God who cannot "lie" (Heb. 6:18). For one of only two or three times that Paul committed himself on a question of fact to turn out to be a piece of semantic trickery, gives us an indirect indication of the third kind, that our leg is being pulled.
>> Titus 1:12 is a logical paradox. It cannot be either true or false.
>> n Romans 3:7 Paul's confession that he told lies so that he might better spread the 'truth of God' is probably the only truth that he ever uttered. To make it worse we then find Paul saying, essentially, "I say the truth in Christ, I lie not." (in Romans 9:1, Galatians 1:20, and 2 Corinthians 11:31).
>> Trustworthiness.
>> --
>> "The mind is everything. What you think you become."
>> [Buddha]
>> Virtual Gods:http://users3.jabry.com/sjewins/library/__philorelig.htm > --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> Groups "Atheism vs Christianity" group.
> To post to this group, send email to
> atheism-vs-christianity@googlegroups.com.
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> atheism-vs-christianity+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
> For more options, visit this group at
> http://groups.google.com/group/atheism-vs-christianity?hl=en.
-- "The mind is everything. What you think you become."
[Buddha]
showme,
Your criticism is not sensible. Plenty of Xians think the Bible is
infallible and base their faith on it. In today's post, Simon is
trying to engage them, not you. Where's the problem?
A better response from you would be to close this thread in your
browser and go look for something that interests you.
On Nov 7, 8:23 am, showmethehoney <alenasha...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> yawn. if all you have to complain about is the words in the bible, you
> are not very interested in conversing with xtians, just putting down a
> book that many xtians do not follow daily. the bible is not the only
> reason people are xtians. they are not all scared into belief and many
> never go to church because they dont buy the dogma. they realize it is
> all man-made. why dont you?
> On Nov 7, 7:49 am, Simon Ewins <sjew...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Titus 1:12
> > "One of themselves, a prophet of their own, said,"Cretans are always liars, evil beasts, lazy gluttons." This testimony is true."
> > If the Cretan Paul quoted was a truth-teller, then what the Cretan said (i.e. that all members of the class he belonged to are non-truth-tellers), cannot be the truth. If the Cretan was a liar, then, for the thing he said to be a lie, the Cretan would have to have been a truth-teller. Either way, the proposition contradicts itself, and is incapable of being simply true or false. But Paul declared it to be simply true, and did so purporting to speak inerrantly for the God who cannot "lie" (Heb. 6:18). For one of only two or three times that Paul committed himself on a question of fact to turn out to be a piece of semantic trickery, gives us an indirect indication of the third kind, that our leg is being pulled.
> > Titus 1:12 is a logical paradox. It cannot be either true or false.
> > n Romans 3:7 Paul's confession that he told lies so that he might better spread the 'truth of God' is probably the only truth that he ever uttered. To make it worse we then find Paul saying, essentially, "I say the truth in Christ, I lie not." (in Romans 9:1, Galatians 1:20, and 2 Corinthians 11:31).
> > Trustworthiness.
> > --
> > "The mind is everything. What you think you become."
> > [Buddha]
the manmade interpretation of 'god' is justly criticized.
unfortunately this has nothing to do with 'god', just as religion
doesnt. just a bunch of men speculating. complaining about these
things may fill a void in your life, other wise i cannot understand
your prolific enthusiasm.
On Nov 7, 8:27 am, Simon Ewins <sjew...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > yawn. if all you have to complain about is the words in the bible, you
> > are not very interested in conversing with xtians, just putting down a
> > book that many xtians do not follow daily. the bible is not the only
> > reason people are xtians. they are not all scared into belief and many
> > never go to church because they dont buy the dogma. they realize it is
> > all man-made. why dont you?
> I do. These (and there will be more) are the evidence of the manmade origins of the Bible.
> If they make you sleepy, just go have a nap.
> I have many things to complain about, this is just one. I will get around to them all eventually.
> > On Nov 7, 7:49 am, Simon Ewins <sjew...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> Titus 1:12
> >> "One of themselves, a prophet of their own, said,"Cretans are always liars, evil beasts, lazy gluttons." This testimony is true."
> >> If the Cretan Paul quoted was a truth-teller, then what the Cretan said (i.e. that all members of the class he belonged to are non-truth-tellers), cannot be the truth. If the Cretan was a liar, then, for the thing he said to be a lie, the Cretan would have to have been a truth-teller. Either way, the proposition contradicts itself, and is incapable of being simply true or false. But Paul declared it to be simply true, and did so purporting to speak inerrantly for the God who cannot "lie" (Heb. 6:18). For one of only two or three times that Paul committed himself on a question of fact to turn out to be a piece of semantic trickery, gives us an indirect indication of the third kind, that our leg is being pulled.
> >> Titus 1:12 is a logical paradox. It cannot be either true or false.
> >> n Romans 3:7 Paul's confession that he told lies so that he might better spread the 'truth of God' is probably the only truth that he ever uttered. To make it worse we then find Paul saying, essentially, "I say the truth in Christ, I lie not." (in Romans 9:1, Galatians 1:20, and 2 Corinthians 11:31).
> >> Trustworthiness.
> >> --
> >> "The mind is everything. What you think you become."
> >> [Buddha]
> >> Virtual Gods:http://users3.jabry.com/sjewins/library/__philorelig.htm > > --
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> > Groups "Atheism vs Christianity" group.
> > To post to this group, send email to
> > atheism-vs-christianity@googlegroups.com.
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> > atheism-vs-christianity+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
> > For more options, visit this group at
> >http://groups.google.com/group/atheism-vs-christianity?hl=en.
> --
> "The mind is everything. What you think you become."
> [Buddha]
you are right, plenty of xtians do. they are called fundamentalists. i
even think there may be one or two of them here. i guess simon is
doing his best to convert them, but from my experiences with fundies,
you cant move them with a ton of dynamite. i guess by simon stating
that the alphabetic number equivalent of jesus times nine equals 666
is trying to engage xtians is a reasonable dialogue seems relevant to
you. i see it as antagonistic and if i want to state it as such i
will, but thanks for the advice.
On Nov 7, 10:36 am, "Timothy 1:4a" <canfanor...@gmail.com> wrote:
> showme,
> Your criticism is not sensible. Plenty of Xians think the Bible is
> infallible and base their faith on it. In today's post, Simon is
> trying to engage them, not you. Where's the problem?
> A better response from you would be to close this thread in your
> browser and go look for something that interests you.
> On Nov 7, 8:23 am, showmethehoney <alenasha...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> > yawn. if all you have to complain about is the words in the bible, you
> > are not very interested in conversing with xtians, just putting down a
> > book that many xtians do not follow daily. the bible is not the only
> > reason people are xtians. they are not all scared into belief and many
> > never go to church because they dont buy the dogma. they realize it is
> > all man-made. why dont you?
> > On Nov 7, 7:49 am, Simon Ewins <sjew...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > Titus 1:12
> > > "One of themselves, a prophet of their own, said,"Cretans are always liars, evil beasts, lazy gluttons." This testimony is true."
> > > If the Cretan Paul quoted was a truth-teller, then what the Cretan said (i.e. that all members of the class he belonged to are non-truth-tellers), cannot be the truth. If the Cretan was a liar, then, for the thing he said to be a lie, the Cretan would have to have been a truth-teller. Either way, the proposition contradicts itself, and is incapable of being simply true or false. But Paul declared it to be simply true, and did so purporting to speak inerrantly for the God who cannot "lie" (Heb. 6:18). For one of only two or three times that Paul committed himself on a question of fact to turn out to be a piece of semantic trickery, gives us an indirect indication of the third kind, that our leg is being pulled.
> > > Titus 1:12 is a logical paradox. It cannot be either true or false.
> > > n Romans 3:7 Paul's confession that he told lies so that he might better spread the 'truth of God' is probably the only truth that he ever uttered. To make it worse we then find Paul saying, essentially, "I say the truth in Christ, I lie not." (in Romans 9:1, Galatians 1:20, and 2 Corinthians 11:31).
> > > Trustworthiness.
> > > --
> > > "The mind is everything. What you think you become."
> > > [Buddha]
On Nov 7, 7:51 am, showmethehoney <alenasha...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> you are right, plenty of xtians do. they are called fundamentalists. i
> even think there may be one or two of them here. i guess simon is
> doing his best to convert them, but from my experiences with fundies,
> you cant move them with a ton of dynamite. i guess by simon stating
> that the alphabetic number equivalent of jesus times nine equals 666
> is trying to engage xtians is a reasonable dialogue seems relevant to
> you.
LL: You're right. It's impossible to engage xtians in a reasonable
dialogue about religion--but we keep trying thinking there might be
ONE that has something reasonable to say. Very long shot, though.
***************
i see it as antagonistic and if i want to state it as such i
> On Nov 7, 10:36 am, "Timothy 1:4a" <canfanor...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > showme,
> > Your criticism is not sensible. Plenty of Xians think the Bible is
> > infallible and base their faith on it. In today's post, Simon is
> > trying to engage them, not you. Where's the problem?
> > A better response from you would be to close this thread in your
> > browser and go look for something that interests you.
> > On Nov 7, 8:23 am, showmethehoney <alenasha...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> > > yawn. if all you have to complain about is the words in the bible, you
> > > are not very interested in conversing with xtians, just putting down a
> > > book that many xtians do not follow daily. the bible is not the only
> > > reason people are xtians. they are not all scared into belief and many
> > > never go to church because they dont buy the dogma. they realize it is
> > > all man-made. why dont you?
> > > On Nov 7, 7:49 am, Simon Ewins <sjew...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > Titus 1:12
> > > > "One of themselves, a prophet of their own, said,"Cretans are always liars, evil beasts, lazy gluttons." This testimony is true."
> > > > If the Cretan Paul quoted was a truth-teller, then what the Cretan said (i.e. that all members of the class he belonged to are non-truth-tellers), cannot be the truth. If the Cretan was a liar, then, for the thing he said to be a lie, the Cretan would have to have been a truth-teller. Either way, the proposition contradicts itself, and is incapable of being simply true or false. But Paul declared it to be simply true, and did so purporting to speak inerrantly for the God who cannot "lie" (Heb. 6:18). For one of only two or three times that Paul committed himself on a question of fact to turn out to be a piece of semantic trickery, gives us an indirect indication of the third kind, that our leg is being pulled.
> > > > Titus 1:12 is a logical paradox. It cannot be either true or false.
> > > > n Romans 3:7 Paul's confession that he told lies so that he might better spread the 'truth of God' is probably the only truth that he ever uttered. To make it worse we then find Paul saying, essentially, "I say the truth in Christ, I lie not." (in Romans 9:1, Galatians 1:20, and 2 Corinthians 11:31).
> > > > Trustworthiness.
> > > > --
> > > > "The mind is everything. What you think you become."
> > > > [Buddha]
heres a question maybe you can answer because it honestly stumps me.
why do atheists want to talk about something they dont believe in,
reasonably or not? i would really like to know because if i didnt
believe in something, i wouldnt want it to be the topic of
conversation day in and day out. i mean, is there an agenda? is there
some goal you are trying to attain?
i do admire the persistance of simon and a few others, but wouldnt you
guys rather talk about something you do believe in? which of course
raises another question, because the word belief is not something
atheists indulge in....am i right? if so, wouldnt that limit you to
talking about something you already know about?
or is it actually okay to speculate? and if so, why say something is
wrong just because it doesnt pass muster with your speculation
thermometer? i think its okay not to believe in 'god', but to daily go
on and on about it seems like a bit of a waste of time to me. what am
i missing? where is the joy in that? or is there any? after all, a
lot of the comments do seem like they are anger driven or just snide
ridicule...doesnt that get tiring? i know i like it, but im an bratty
oddball........
> On Nov 7, 7:51 am, showmethehoney <alenasha...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> > you are right, plenty of xtians do. they are called fundamentalists. i
> > even think there may be one or two of them here. i guess simon is
> > doing his best to convert them, but from my experiences with fundies,
> > you cant move them with a ton of dynamite. i guess by simon stating
> > that the alphabetic number equivalent of jesus times nine equals 666
> > is trying to engage xtians is a reasonable dialogue seems relevant to
> > you.
> LL: You're right. It's impossible to engage xtians in a reasonable
> dialogue about religion--but we keep trying thinking there might be
> ONE that has something reasonable to say. Very long shot, though.
> ***************
> i see it as antagonistic and if i want to state it as such i
> > will, but thanks for the advice.
> > On Nov 7, 10:36 am, "Timothy 1:4a" <canfanor...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > showme,
> > > Your criticism is not sensible. Plenty of Xians think the Bible is
> > > infallible and base their faith on it. In today's post, Simon is
> > > trying to engage them, not you. Where's the problem?
> > > A better response from you would be to close this thread in your
> > > browser and go look for something that interests you.
> > > On Nov 7, 8:23 am, showmethehoney <alenasha...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> > > > yawn. if all you have to complain about is the words in the bible, you
> > > > are not very interested in conversing with xtians, just putting down a
> > > > book that many xtians do not follow daily. the bible is not the only
> > > > reason people are xtians. they are not all scared into belief and many
> > > > never go to church because they dont buy the dogma. they realize it is
> > > > all man-made. why dont you?
> > > > On Nov 7, 7:49 am, Simon Ewins <sjew...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > Titus 1:12
> > > > > "One of themselves, a prophet of their own, said,"Cretans are always liars, evil beasts, lazy gluttons." This testimony is true."
> > > > > If the Cretan Paul quoted was a truth-teller, then what the Cretan said (i.e. that all members of the class he belonged to are non-truth-tellers), cannot be the truth. If the Cretan was a liar, then, for the thing he said to be a lie, the Cretan would have to have been a truth-teller. Either way, the proposition contradicts itself, and is incapable of being simply true or false. But Paul declared it to be simply true, and did so purporting to speak inerrantly for the God who cannot "lie" (Heb. 6:18). For one of only two or three times that Paul committed himself on a question of fact to turn out to be a piece of semantic trickery, gives us an indirect indication of the third kind, that our leg is being pulled.
> > > > > Titus 1:12 is a logical paradox. It cannot be either true or false.
> > > > > n Romans 3:7 Paul's confession that he told lies so that he might better spread the 'truth of God' is probably the only truth that he ever uttered. To make it worse we then find Paul saying, essentially, "I say the truth in Christ, I lie not." (in Romans 9:1, Galatians 1:20, and 2 Corinthians 11:31).
> > > > > Trustworthiness.
> > > > > --
> > > > > "The mind is everything. What you think you become."
> > > > > [Buddha]
On Nov 7, 7:46 am, showmethehoney <alenasha...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> the manmade interpretation of 'god' is justly criticized.
Observer
There is no other than an man made made interpretation of the
fictitious god thing.
> unfortunately this has nothing to do with 'god'
Observer
What god , where is the scientifically verifiable substantiating data
necessary to provide assurance that such is other than ridiculous
fiction?
, just as religion
> doesnt. just a bunch of men speculating. complaining about these
> things may fill a void in your life, other wise i cannot understand
> your prolific enthusiasm.
Observer
You have spoken the truth when you admit that you can not understand .
Your lack of ability to learn to understand and the sloth which
prevents your education is such that you display little if any
understanding of what it means to be human.
You have not even the class to be ashamed this corruption of human
potentiality.
How we pity you in your slovenliness and detest your lazy mind.
Those who will not try to learn are those who commit thereby heinous
crimes against themselves and against humanity.
How disgusting!
Psychonomist
P.S. Do your self a favor , do not attempt to compete whit Simon as he
is imbued with the produce of hard earned education, a quick wit and a
profound ability to apply critical thought to any subject. Watching
your attempt to do so triggers visions of the village idiot as he at
once attempts pontification and profusely slobbers.
> On Nov 7, 8:27 am, Simon Ewins <sjew...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > [showmethehoney]
> > > yawn. if all you have to complain about is the words in the bible, you
> > > are not very interested in conversing with xtians, just putting down a
> > > book that many xtians do not follow daily. the bible is not the only
> > > reason people are xtians. they are not all scared into belief and many
> > > never go to church because they dont buy the dogma. they realize it is
> > > all man-made. why dont you?
> > I do. These (and there will be more) are the evidence of the manmade origins of the Bible.
> > If they make you sleepy, just go have a nap.
> > I have many things to complain about, this is just one. I will get around to them all eventually.
> > > On Nov 7, 7:49 am, Simon Ewins <sjew...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >> Titus 1:12
> > >> "One of themselves, a prophet of their own, said,"Cretans are always liars, evil beasts, lazy gluttons." This testimony is true."
> > >> If the Cretan Paul quoted was a truth-teller, then what the Cretan said (i.e. that all members of the class he belonged to are non-truth-tellers), cannot be the truth. If the Cretan was a liar, then, for the thing he said to be a lie, the Cretan would have to have been a truth-teller. Either way, the proposition contradicts itself, and is incapable of being simply true or false. But Paul declared it to be simply true, and did so purporting to speak inerrantly for the God who cannot "lie" (Heb. 6:18). For one of only two or three times that Paul committed himself on a question of fact to turn out to be a piece of semantic trickery, gives us an indirect indication of the third kind, that our leg is being pulled.
> > >> Titus 1:12 is a logical paradox. It cannot be either true or false.
> > >> n Romans 3:7 Paul's confession that he told lies so that he might better spread the 'truth of God' is probably the only truth that he ever uttered. To make it worse we then find Paul saying, essentially, "I say the truth in Christ, I lie not." (in Romans 9:1, Galatians 1:20, and 2 Corinthians 11:31).
> > >> Trustworthiness.
> > >> --
> > >> "The mind is everything. What you think you become."
> > >> [Buddha]
> > >> Virtual Gods:http://users3.jabry.com/sjewins/library/__philorelig.htm > > > --
> > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> > > Groups "Atheism vs Christianity" group.
> > > To post to this group, send email to
> > > atheism-vs-christianity@googlegroups.com.
> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> > > atheism-vs-christianity+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
> > > For more options, visit this group at
> > >http://groups.google.com/group/atheism-vs-christianity?hl=en.
> > --
> > "The mind is everything. What you think you become."
> > [Buddha]
Well, I must say something on this Simon is witty and smart and there is
alot of smart people in these forum's and great teachers of alot ...things
that was brought back in memory when I was in School...but don't you think
the word Idoit is just a little harsh....and by the way (the word criticized
is not in a Christain's dictionary---correction maybe...I agree you have to
be open to have a debate or a disscussion on Topic's---and how I do it is
look in books on the Topic's--One thing I notice is the Atheist as lead the
Christain's in doing this--but the Christian's have the Atheist reading
also...It is a good question why be in here if that is all there is---and
you get put down and so fourth--(I will speak for myself it is a determined
,compelled, to claim the victory in Christ Jesus..Plus I enjoy it....
On Sat, Nov 7, 2009 at 1:55 PM, Observer <mayors...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Nov 7, 7:46 am, showmethehoney <alenasha...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> > the manmade interpretation of 'god' is justly criticized.
> Observer
> There is no other than an man made made interpretation of the
> fictitious god thing.
> > unfortunately this has nothing to do with 'god'
> Observer
> What god , where is the scientifically verifiable substantiating data
> necessary to provide assurance that such is other than ridiculous
> fiction?
> , just as religion
> > doesnt. just a bunch of men speculating. complaining about these
> > things may fill a void in your life, other wise i cannot understand
> > your prolific enthusiasm.
> Observer
> You have spoken the truth when you admit that you can not understand .
> Your lack of ability to learn to understand and the sloth which
> prevents your education is such that you display little if any
> understanding of what it means to be human.
> You have not even the class to be ashamed this corruption of human
> potentiality.
> How we pity you in your slovenliness and detest your lazy mind.
> Those who will not try to learn are those who commit thereby heinous
> crimes against themselves and against humanity.
> How disgusting!
> Psychonomist
> P.S. Do your self a favor , do not attempt to compete whit Simon as he
> is imbued with the produce of hard earned education, a quick wit and a
> profound ability to apply critical thought to any subject. Watching
> your attempt to do so triggers visions of the village idiot as he at
> once attempts pontification and profusely slobbers.
> Psychonomist
> > On Nov 7, 8:27 am, Simon Ewins <sjew...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > [showmethehoney]
> > > > yawn. if all you have to complain about is the words in the bible,
> you
> > > > are not very interested in conversing with xtians, just putting down
> a
> > > > book that many xtians do not follow daily. the bible is not the only
> > > > reason people are xtians. they are not all scared into belief and
> many
> > > > never go to church because they dont buy the dogma. they realize it
> is
> > > > all man-made. why dont you?
> > > I do. These (and there will be more) are the evidence of the manmade
> origins of the Bible.
> > > If they make you sleepy, just go have a nap.
> > > I have many things to complain about, this is just one. I will get
> around to them all eventually.
> > > > On Nov 7, 7:49 am, Simon Ewins <sjew...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > >> Titus 1:12
> > > >> "One of themselves, a prophet of their own, said,"Cretans are always
> liars, evil beasts, lazy gluttons." This testimony is true."
> > > >> If the Cretan Paul quoted was a truth-teller, then what the Cretan
> said (i.e. that all members of the class he belonged to are
> non-truth-tellers), cannot be the truth. If the Cretan was a liar, then,
> for the thing he said to be a lie, the Cretan would have to have been a
> truth-teller. Either way, the proposition contradicts itself, and is
> incapable of being simply true or false. But Paul declared it to be simply
> true, and did so purporting to speak inerrantly for the God who cannot
> "lie" (Heb. 6:18). For one of only two or three times that Paul committed
> himself on a question of fact to turn out to be a piece of semantic
> trickery, gives us an indirect indication of the third kind, that our leg is
> being pulled.
> > > >> Titus 1:12 is a logical paradox. It cannot be either true or false.
> > > >> n Romans 3:7 Paul's confession that he told lies so that he might
> better spread the 'truth of God' is probably the only truth that he ever
> uttered. To make it worse we then find Paul saying, essentially, "I say the
> truth in Christ, I lie not." (in Romans 9:1, Galatians 1:20, and 2
> Corinthians 11:31).
> > > >> Trustworthiness.
> > > >> --
> > > >> "The mind is everything. What you think you become."
> > > >> [Buddha]
> > > >> Virtual Gods:
> http://users3.jabry.com/sjewins/library/__philorelig.htm > > > > --
> > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> > > > Groups "Atheism vs Christianity" group.
> > > > To post to this group, send email to
> > > > atheism-vs-christianity@googlegroups.com.
> > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> > > > atheism-vs-christianity+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com<atheism-vs-christianit y%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups.com>
> .
> > > > For more options, visit this group at
> > > >http://groups.google.com/group/atheism-vs-christianity?hl=en.
> > > --
> > > "The mind is everything. What you think you become."
> > > [Buddha]
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "Atheism vs Christianity" group.
> To post to this group, send email to
> atheism-vs-christianity@googlegroups.com.
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> atheism-vs-christianity+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com<atheism-vs-christianit y%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups.com>
> .
> For more options, visit this group at
> http://groups.google.com/group/atheism-vs-christianity?hl=en.
On Nov 8, 12:52 am, showmethehoney <alenasha...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> heres a question maybe you can answer because it honestly stumps me.
> why do atheists want to talk about something they dont believe in,
> reasonably or not? i would really like to know because if i didnt
> believe in something, i wouldnt want it to be the topic of
> conversation day in and day out. i mean, is there an agenda? is there
> some goal you are trying to attain?
> i do admire the persistance of simon and a few others, but wouldnt you
> guys rather talk about something you do believe in?
Pardon me, persistence of SE or others, is it any different from yours
- I wonder.
:)
cheers
student13
There are several fundies who post here and a great many more who
occasionally browse. Lots of posts are written especially to them.
You're not one, so why not ignore the experiment?
Some fundies do have teflon brains, but I myself know several fundies
in real life who have deconverted. They are actually easier to
deconvert than traditional Christians, because fundie ideas are so...
what's the word I'm looking for... ignorant. A little real knowledge
goes a long way. For example, Wesleyans believe in a literal six day
(144 hour) creation and that the world is very close to 6000 years
old. The varve record alone makes that belief unsupportable.
If you want to complain about the 9 x 74 = 666 post, why not do it in
that thread? Frankly I don't think this OP on Cretan cretins is very
strong, but your response just ain't so: lots of people use the Bible
as the main prop for their faith.
On Nov 7, 10:51 am, showmethehoney <alenasha...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> you are right, plenty of xtians do. they are called fundamentalists. i
> even think there may be one or two of them here. i guess simon is
> doing his best to convert them, but from my experiences with fundies,
> you cant move them with a ton of dynamite. i guess by simon stating
> that the alphabetic number equivalent of jesus times nine equals 666
> is trying to engage xtians is a reasonable dialogue seems relevant to
> you. i see it as antagonistic and if i want to state it as such i
> will, but thanks for the advice.
> On Nov 7, 10:36 am, "Timothy 1:4a" <canfanor...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > showme,
> > Your criticism is not sensible. Plenty of Xians think the Bible is
> > infallible and base their faith on it. In today's post, Simon is
> > trying to engage them, not you. Where's the problem?
> > A better response from you would be to close this thread in your
> > browser and go look for something that interests you.
> > On Nov 7, 8:23 am, showmethehoney <alenasha...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> > > yawn. if all you have to complain about is the words in the bible, you
> > > are not very interested in conversing with xtians, just putting down a
> > > book that many xtians do not follow daily. the bible is not the only
> > > reason people are xtians. they are not all scared into belief and many
> > > never go to church because they dont buy the dogma. they realize it is
> > > all man-made. why dont you?
> > > On Nov 7, 7:49 am, Simon Ewins <sjew...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > Titus 1:12
> > > > "One of themselves, a prophet of their own, said,"Cretans are always liars, evil beasts, lazy gluttons." This testimony is true."
> > > > If the Cretan Paul quoted was a truth-teller, then what the Cretan said (i.e. that all members of the class he belonged to are non-truth-tellers), cannot be the truth. If the Cretan was a liar, then, for the thing he said to be a lie, the Cretan would have to have been a truth-teller. Either way, the proposition contradicts itself, and is incapable of being simply true or false. But Paul declared it to be simply true, and did so purporting to speak inerrantly for the God who cannot "lie" (Heb. 6:18). For one of only two or three times that Paul committed himself on a question of fact to turn out to be a piece of semantic trickery, gives us an indirect indication of the third kind, that our leg is being pulled.
> > > > Titus 1:12 is a logical paradox. It cannot be either true or false.
> > > > n Romans 3:7 Paul's confession that he told lies so that he might better spread the 'truth of God' is probably the only truth that he ever uttered. To make it worse we then find Paul saying, essentially, "I say the truth in Christ, I lie not." (in Romans 9:1, Galatians 1:20, and 2 Corinthians 11:31).
> > > > Trustworthiness.
> > > > --
> > > > "The mind is everything. What you think you become."
> > > > [Buddha]
On Sat, Nov 7, 2009 at 11:16 PM, Timothy 1:4a <canfanor...@gmail.com> wrote:
> There are several fundies who post here and a great many more who
> occasionally browse. Lots of posts are written especially to them.
> You're not one, so why not ignore the experiment?
> Some fundies do have teflon brains, but I myself know several fundies
> in real life who have deconverted. They are actually easier to
> deconvert than traditional Christians, because fundie ideas are so...
> what's the word I'm looking for... ignorant. A little real knowledge
> goes a long way. For example, Wesleyans believe in a literal six day
> (144 hour) creation and that the world is very close to 6000 years
> old. The varve record alone makes that belief unsupportable.
> If you want to complain about the 9 x 74 = 666 post, why not do it in
> that thread? Frankly I don't think this OP on Cretan cretins is very
> strong, but your response just ain't so: lots of people use the Bible
> as the main prop for their faith.
> On Nov 7, 10:51 am, showmethehoney <alenasha...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> > you are right, plenty of xtians do. they are called fundamentalists. i
> > even think there may be one or two of them here. i guess simon is
> > doing his best to convert them, but from my experiences with fundies,
> > you cant move them with a ton of dynamite. i guess by simon stating
> > that the alphabetic number equivalent of jesus times nine equals 666
> > is trying to engage xtians is a reasonable dialogue seems relevant to
> > you. i see it as antagonistic and if i want to state it as such i
> > will, but thanks for the advice.
> > On Nov 7, 10:36 am, "Timothy 1:4a" <canfanor...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > showme,
> > > Your criticism is not sensible. Plenty of Xians think the Bible is
> > > infallible and base their faith on it. In today's post, Simon is
> > > trying to engage them, not you. Where's the problem?
> > > A better response from you would be to close this thread in your
> > > browser and go look for something that interests you.
> > > On Nov 7, 8:23 am, showmethehoney <alenasha...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> > > > yawn. if all you have to complain about is the words in the bible,
> you
> > > > are not very interested in conversing with xtians, just putting down
> a
> > > > book that many xtians do not follow daily. the bible is not the only
> > > > reason people are xtians. they are not all scared into belief and
> many
> > > > never go to church because they dont buy the dogma. they realize it
> is
> > > > all man-made. why dont you?
> > > > On Nov 7, 7:49 am, Simon Ewins <sjew...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > Titus 1:12
> > > > > "One of themselves, a prophet of their own, said,"Cretans are
> always liars, evil beasts, lazy gluttons." This testimony is true."
> > > > > If the Cretan Paul quoted was a truth-teller, then what the Cretan
> said (i.e. that all members of the class he belonged to are
> non-truth-tellers), cannot be the truth. If the Cretan was a liar, then,
> for the thing he said to be a lie, the Cretan would have to have been a
> truth-teller. Either way, the proposition contradicts itself, and is
> incapable of being simply true or false. But Paul declared it to be simply
> true, and did so purporting to speak inerrantly for the God who cannot
> "lie" (Heb. 6:18). For one of only two or three times that Paul committed
> himself on a question of fact to turn out to be a piece of semantic
> trickery, gives us an indirect indication of the third kind, that our leg is
> being pulled.
> > > > > Titus 1:12 is a logical paradox. It cannot be either true or false.
> > > > > n Romans 3:7 Paul's confession that he told lies so that he might
> better spread the 'truth of God' is probably the only truth that he ever
> uttered. To make it worse we then find Paul saying, essentially, "I say the
> truth in Christ, I lie not." (in Romans 9:1, Galatians 1:20, and 2
> Corinthians 11:31).
> > > > > Trustworthiness.
> > > > > --
> > > > > "The mind is everything. What you think you become."
> > > > > [Buddha]
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "Atheism vs Christianity" group.
> To post to this group, send email to
> atheism-vs-christianity@googlegroups.com.
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> atheism-vs-christianity+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com<atheism-vs-christianit y%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups.com>
> .
> For more options, visit this group at
> http://groups.google.com/group/atheism-vs-christianity?hl=en.
"Fundies" is short for fundamentalists, usually meaning Christian
fundamentalists. Their views are unpopular with most atheists, most
non-Christians, and many Christians. And with me.
Fundie is an umbrella term which covers a wide range of Christian
religions. What they have in common is a too-literal interpretation of
the Bible, a poor understanding of science, and a right wing
philosophy which (unlike traditional right wing philosophy) likes to
interfere with their neighbors' lives.
On Nov 8, 12:50 pm, Doris Ragland <dr4...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Would you please explain what a fundies is...I speak clear....The #666 is a
> number of a man's name...
666 is a number which maps to the name of a man who died about 1900
years ago. At the time it was written, it presumably would have been
treasonous (with a death penalty) to name him. Hence the coy clue.
Since then, in every generation, people with no sense of history have
been associating 666 with other men (thousands of men by now) and
predicting the end of the world within their own lifetimes.
Here's one of my favorites, thanks to the disingenuous treatment of
"M" and "X":
"The number of the beast has been interpreted to stand for Pope Leo X
(by Michael Stifel (1486 - 1567)). He considered the name LEO DECIMVS
X, added the values of the constituent letters L,D,C,I,V,X in their
meaning of Roman numerals, discarded the other letters because they do
not denote a Roman numeral and also the Roman numeral 'M' because its
meaning 'Mystery' eliminates its value."
http://www.popsubculture.com/pop/bio_project/sub/666.html
Note that "LEO DECIMVS X" is Latin for "Leo the tenth the tenth" :-P
> On Sat, Nov 7, 2009 at 11:16 PM, Timothy 1:4a <canfanor...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > There are several fundies who post here and a great many more who
> > occasionally browse. Lots of posts are written especially to them.
> > You're not one, so why not ignore the experiment?
> > Some fundies do have teflon brains, but I myself know several fundies
> > in real life who have deconverted. They are actually easier to
> > deconvert than traditional Christians, because fundie ideas are so...
> > what's the word I'm looking for... ignorant. A little real knowledge
> > goes a long way. For example, Wesleyans believe in a literal six day
> > (144 hour) creation and that the world is very close to 6000 years
> > old. The varve record alone makes that belief unsupportable.
> > If you want to complain about the 9 x 74 = 666 post, why not do it in
> > that thread? Frankly I don't think this OP on Cretan cretins is very
> > strong, but your response just ain't so: lots of people use the Bible
> > as the main prop for their faith.
> > On Nov 7, 10:51 am, showmethehoney <alenasha...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> > > you are right, plenty of xtians do. they are called fundamentalists. i
> > > even think there may be one or two of them here. i guess simon is
> > > doing his best to convert them, but from my experiences with fundies,
> > > you cant move them with a ton of dynamite. i guess by simon stating
> > > that the alphabetic number equivalent of jesus times nine equals 666
> > > is trying to engage xtians is a reasonable dialogue seems relevant to
> > > you. i see it as antagonistic and if i want to state it as such i
> > > will, but thanks for the advice.
> > > On Nov 7, 10:36 am, "Timothy 1:4a" <canfanor...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > showme,
> > > > Your criticism is not sensible. Plenty of Xians think the Bible is
> > > > infallible and base their faith on it. In today's post, Simon is
> > > > trying to engage them, not you. Where's the problem?
> > > > A better response from you would be to close this thread in your
> > > > browser and go look for something that interests you.
> > > > On Nov 7, 8:23 am, showmethehoney <alenasha...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> > > > > yawn. if all you have to complain about is the words in the bible,
> > you
> > > > > are not very interested in conversing with xtians, just putting down
> > a
> > > > > book that many xtians do not follow daily. the bible is not the only
> > > > > reason people are xtians. they are not all scared into belief and
> > many
> > > > > never go to church because they dont buy the dogma. they realize it
> > is
> > > > > all man-made. why dont you?
> > > > > On Nov 7, 7:49 am, Simon Ewins <sjew...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > Titus 1:12
> > > > > > "One of themselves, a prophet of their own, said,"Cretans are
> > always liars, evil beasts, lazy gluttons." This testimony is true."
> > > > > > If the Cretan Paul quoted was a truth-teller, then what the Cretan
> > said (i.e. that all members of the class he belonged to are
> > non-truth-tellers), cannot be the truth. If the Cretan was a liar, then,
> > for the thing he said to be a lie, the Cretan would have to have been a
> > truth-teller. Either way, the proposition contradicts itself, and is
> > incapable of being simply true or false. But Paul declared it to be simply
> > true, and did so purporting to speak inerrantly for the God who cannot
> > "lie" (Heb. 6:18). For one of only two or three times that Paul committed
> > himself on a question of fact to turn out to be a piece of semantic
> > trickery, gives us an indirect indication of the third kind, that our leg is
> > being pulled.
> > > > > > Titus 1:12 is a logical paradox. It cannot be either true or false.
> > > > > > n Romans 3:7 Paul's confession that he told lies so that he might
> > better spread the 'truth of God' is probably the only truth that he ever
> > uttered. To make it worse we then find Paul saying, essentially, "I say the
> > truth in Christ, I lie not." (in Romans 9:1, Galatians 1:20, and 2
> > Corinthians 11:31).
> > > > > > Trustworthiness.
> > > > > > --
> > > > > > "The mind is everything. What you think you become."
> > > > > > [Buddha]
> > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
> > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
> > > - Show quoted text -
> > --
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> > "Atheism vs Christianity" group.
> > To post to this group, send email to
> > atheism-vs-christianity@googlegroups.com.
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> > atheism-vs-christianity+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com<atheism-vs-christianit y%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups.com>
> > .
> > For more options, visit this group at
> >http://groups.google.com/group/atheism-vs-christianity?hl=en.
So I have a quesiton....it seems that Nero,,,Romans--Hitler--this is what
they had in common mass destruction...right wing is ---mass and destructive?
and I know what a fundamentalist Christain is...I have said this for years
that God and science has gone hand in hand...there is nothing wrong with
scienceist the good ones....I think the Bible was full of science and a
matter of fact this is well known...this is what I think it is a gift to be
previlage to go into a futherance of what God has to offer...and what I mean
by this --we did not just stop and except that the world was flat--(simple
example) what I think is this lack of understanding in some people --so it
makes them go where they are excepted----and their is a purpose for all
things...I hope the word excepted is not offending---there was alot not
excepted that was so smart and contributed in area's for mankind...The
Christains (some) have a need for people to say yes I believe in Jesus
Christ....
On Sun, Nov 8, 2009 at 10:29 AM, Timothy 1:4a <canfanor...@gmail.com> wrote:
> "Fundies" is short for fundamentalists, usually meaning Christian
> fundamentalists. Their views are unpopular with most atheists, most
> non-Christians, and many Christians. And with me.
> Fundie is an umbrella term which covers a wide range of Christian
> religions. What they have in common is a too-literal interpretation of
> the Bible, a poor understanding of science, and a right wing
> philosophy which (unlike traditional right wing philosophy) likes to
> interfere with their neighbors' lives.
> On Nov 8, 12:50 pm, Doris Ragland <dr4...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Would you please explain what a fundies is...I speak clear....The #666 is
> a
> > number of a man's name...
> 666 is a number which maps to the name of a man who died about 1900
> years ago. At the time it was written, it presumably would have been
> treasonous (with a death penalty) to name him. Hence the coy clue.
> Since then, in every generation, people with no sense of history have
> been associating 666 with other men (thousands of men by now) and
> predicting the end of the world within their own lifetimes.
> Here's one of my favorites, thanks to the disingenuous treatment of
> "M" and "X":
> "The number of the beast has been interpreted to stand for Pope Leo X
> (by Michael Stifel (1486 - 1567)). He considered the name LEO DECIMVS
> X, added the values of the constituent letters L,D,C,I,V,X in their
> meaning of Roman numerals, discarded the other letters because they do
> not denote a Roman numeral and also the Roman numeral 'M' because its
> meaning 'Mystery' eliminates its value."
> http://www.popsubculture.com/pop/bio_project/sub/666.html
> Note that "LEO DECIMVS X" is Latin for "Leo the tenth the tenth" :-P
> > On Sat, Nov 7, 2009 at 11:16 PM, Timothy 1:4a <canfanor...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > > There are several fundies who post here and a great many more who
> > > occasionally browse. Lots of posts are written especially to them.
> > > You're not one, so why not ignore the experiment?
> > > Some fundies do have teflon brains, but I myself know several fundies
> > > in real life who have deconverted. They are actually easier to
> > > deconvert than traditional Christians, because fundie ideas are so...
> > > what's the word I'm looking for... ignorant. A little real knowledge
> > > goes a long way. For example, Wesleyans believe in a literal six day
> > > (144 hour) creation and that the world is very close to 6000 years
> > > old. The varve record alone makes that belief unsupportable.
> > > If you want to complain about the 9 x 74 = 666 post, why not do it in
> > > that thread? Frankly I don't think this OP on Cretan cretins is very
> > > strong, but your response just ain't so: lots of people use the Bible
> > > as the main prop for their faith.
> > > On Nov 7, 10:51 am, showmethehoney <alenasha...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> > > > you are right, plenty of xtians do. they are called fundamentalists.
> i
> > > > even think there may be one or two of them here. i guess simon is
> > > > doing his best to convert them, but from my experiences with fundies,
> > > > you cant move them with a ton of dynamite. i guess by simon stating
> > > > that the alphabetic number equivalent of jesus times nine equals 666
> > > > is trying to engage xtians is a reasonable dialogue seems relevant to
> > > > you. i see it as antagonistic and if i want to state it as such i
> > > > will, but thanks for the advice.
> > > > On Nov 7, 10:36 am, "Timothy 1:4a" <canfanor...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > showme,
> > > > > Your criticism is not sensible. Plenty of Xians think the Bible is
> > > > > infallible and base their faith on it. In today's post, Simon is
> > > > > trying to engage them, not you. Where's the problem?
> > > > > A better response from you would be to close this thread in your
> > > > > browser and go look for something that interests you.
> > > > > On Nov 7, 8:23 am, showmethehoney <alenasha...@googlemail.com>
> wrote:
> > > > > > yawn. if all you have to complain about is the words in the
> bible,
> > > you
> > > > > > are not very interested in conversing with xtians, just putting
> down
> > > a
> > > > > > book that many xtians do not follow daily. the bible is not the
> only
> > > > > > reason people are xtians. they are not all scared into belief and
> > > many
> > > > > > never go to church because they dont buy the dogma. they realize
> it
> > > is
> > > > > > all man-made. why dont you?
> > > > > > On Nov 7, 7:49 am, Simon Ewins <sjew...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > Titus 1:12
> > > > > > > "One of themselves, a prophet of their own, said,"Cretans are
> > > always liars, evil beasts, lazy gluttons." This testimony is true."
> > > > > > > If the Cretan Paul quoted was a truth-teller, then what the
> Cretan
> > > said (i.e. that all members of the class he belonged to are
> > > non-truth-tellers), cannot be the truth. If the Cretan was a liar,
> then,
> > > for the thing he said to be a lie, the Cretan would have to have been a
> > > truth-teller. Either way, the proposition contradicts itself, and is
> > > incapable of being simply true or false. But Paul declared it to be
> simply
> > > true, and did so purporting to speak inerrantly for the God who cannot
> > > "lie" (Heb. 6:18). For one of only two or three times that Paul
> committed
> > > himself on a question of fact to turn out to be a piece of semantic
> > > trickery, gives us an indirect indication of the third kind, that our
> leg is
> > > being pulled.
> > > > > > > Titus 1:12 is a logical paradox. It cannot be either true or
> false.
> > > > > > > n Romans 3:7 Paul's confession that he told lies so that he
> might
> > > better spread the 'truth of God' is probably the only truth that he
> ever
> > > uttered. To make it worse we then find Paul saying, essentially, "I
> say the
> > > truth in Christ, I lie not." (in Romans 9:1, Galatians 1:20, and 2
> > > Corinthians 11:31).
> > > > > > > Trustworthiness.
> > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > "The mind is everything. What you think you become."
> > > > > > > [Buddha]
> > > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
> > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
> > > > - Show quoted text -
> > > --
> > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> Groups
> > > "Atheism vs Christianity" group.
> > > To post to this group, send email to
> > > atheism-vs-christianity@googlegroups.com.
> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
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On Nov 8, 3:17 pm, Doris Ragland <dr4...@gmail.com> wrote:
> So I have a quesiton....it seems that Nero,,,Romans--Hitler--this is what
> they had in common mass destruction...right wing is ---mass and destructive?
> and I know what a fundamentalist Christain is...I have said this for years
> that God and science has gone hand in hand...there is nothing wrong with
> scienceist the good ones....I think the Bible was full of science and a
> matter of fact this is well known...this is what I think it is a gift to be
> previlage to go into a futherance of what God has to offer...and what I mean
> by this --we did not just stop and except that the world was flat--(simple
> example) what I think is this lack of understanding in some people --so it
> makes them go where they are excepted----and their is a purpose for all
> things...I hope the word excepted is not offending---there was alot not
> excepted that was so smart and contributed in area's for mankind...The
> Christains (some) have a need for people to say yes I believe in Jesus
> Christ....
Now I have a question for you: where is the "science" in the Bible?
All I have found there is a collection of myths.
From the time of Aristolle 2,300 years ago, scientific theory held the
Universe to be eternal the unchanging stellar of the heavens was shining
evidence of this eternity..Einstein even claimed proven it though with some
sleight of hand. Through the early 1960's in the face of mounting evidence
to the contrary, two thrids of leading U.S. scientists surveyed believed
it.. For 3,330 years since revelatiion on Sinai, the Bible denied it,
steadfastly claiming there was a b eginning to our Universe... Only in the
Past thirty years has science resolved the question...Based on data from
telescopes Particle accelerators, the 3,330 year old-Genesis1:1 was correct
all along..There was a beginning the old, we learned is not necessrily the
out date much of the appeal for the Aristolelian theory of an eternal
Universe was that a unverse with a beginning poses a problem that borders on
theology as weinberg wrote in the clossing page of his classic The First
Three Minutes, "Some cosomologists are Philosophically attracted to the
oscillating model.(of the Universe) especially because, like the
steady-state (Enteral)model nicely avoids the problem of Genesis". The
"problem of Genesis" beginning. Weinberg, and many scientists since,
proceeded to demonstrate on theoretucal grounds that the law nature demand a
beginning for Universe, a time before which there was neither time nor space
nor matter. Because we have lived for the past thiry years with strong
evidence for the Big Bang, we take the fact of a begenning as an obvious
given as popular wisdom. But let us not lose perspective. This shift in
scientific opinion, after millennia of opposition represents the most
significant change science can ever make toward Biblical Philosophy..
Evolution, dinosaur's, cavemen, are all trivial controversies when compared
to the concept of a beginning . While a beginning does not confirm the
existence of a beginner, it does open the way for possbility...Here are some
scripture's out of the Bible to show of Science---Genesis 22:17
Jeremiah 33:22
Even today, scientists admit that they do not know how many stars there are
only about 3,000 now..can be seen with the naked eye. We have seen
estimates of 10 stars-which is a lot of stars The number grains of sand on
the earth -grains is estimated to be 10(25) as scientists discover more
stars would'nt it be interesting to discover that these two # match---here
is some more scripture's of science 1 Corenthians 15:41--Jeremiah
31:35,36----Statements Consistent with
Meteorology ----Ecclesiastes1:6--------Bible Fluid dynamic's----Job
28:28----I say this Science and the Bible does exist.....there is many ,many
more...Thank you for reading....
On Sun, Nov 8, 2009 at 2:47 PM, Medusa <Medusa4...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Nov 8, 3:17 pm, Doris Ragland <dr4...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > So I have a quesiton....it seems that Nero,,,Romans--Hitler--this is what
> > they had in common mass destruction...right wing is ---mass and
> destructive?
> > and I know what a fundamentalist Christain is...I have said this for
> years
> > that God and science has gone hand in hand...there is nothing wrong with
> > scienceist the good ones....I think the Bible was full of science and a
> > matter of fact this is well known...this is what I think it is a gift to
> be
> > previlage to go into a futherance of what God has to offer...and what I
> mean
> > by this --we did not just stop and except that the world was
> flat--(simple
> > example) what I think is this lack of understanding in some people --so
> it
> > makes them go where they are excepted----and their is a purpose for all
> > things...I hope the word excepted is not offending---there was alot not
> > excepted that was so smart and contributed in area's for mankind...The
> > Christains (some) have a need for people to say yes I believe in Jesus
> > Christ....
> Now I have a question for you: where is the "science" in the Bible?
> All I have found there is a collection of myths.
> Medusa
> --
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On Nov 8, 4:17 pm, Doris Ragland <dr4...@gmail.com> wrote:
> So I have a quesiton....it seems that Nero,,,Romans--Hitler--this is what
> they had in common mass destruction...right wing is ---mass and destructive?
That's a pretty good question, too much for me to answer tonight. I
could list a bunch of opinions on hot topics that are usually held by
"right wingers" but I don't have a good definition. I don't even know
if I'd call Nero right wing.
> and I know what a fundamentalist Christain is...I have said this for years
> that God and science has gone hand in hand...there is nothing wrong with
> scienceist the good ones....I think the Bible was full of science and a
> matter of fact this is well known...this is what I think it is a gift to be
> previlage to go into a futherance of what God has to offer...and what I mean
> by this --we did not just stop and except that the world was flat--(simple
> example) what I think is this lack of understanding in some people --so it
> makes them go where they are excepted----and their is a purpose for all
> things...I hope the word excepted is not offending---there was alot not
> excepted that was so smart and contributed in area's for mankind...The
> Christains (some) have a need for people to say yes I believe in Jesus
> Christ....
> On Sun, Nov 8, 2009 at 10:29 AM, Timothy 1:4a <canfanor...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > "Fundies" is short for fundamentalists, usually meaning Christian
> > fundamentalists. Their views are unpopular with most atheists, most
> > non-Christians, and many Christians. And with me.
> > Fundie is an umbrella term which covers a wide range of Christian
> > religions. What they have in common is a too-literal interpretation of
> > the Bible, a poor understanding of science, and a right wing
> > philosophy which (unlike traditional right wing philosophy) likes to
> > interfere with their neighbors' lives.
> > On Nov 8, 12:50 pm, Doris Ragland <dr4...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > Would you please explain what a fundies is...I speak clear....The #666 is
> > a
> > > number of a man's name...
> > 666 is a number which maps to the name of a man who died about 1900
> > years ago. At the time it was written, it presumably would have been
> > treasonous (with a death penalty) to name him. Hence the coy clue.
> > Since then, in every generation, people with no sense of history have
> > been associating 666 with other men (thousands of men by now) and
> > predicting the end of the world within their own lifetimes.
> > Here's one of my favorites, thanks to the disingenuous treatment of
> > "M" and "X":
> > "The number of the beast has been interpreted to stand for Pope Leo X
> > (by Michael Stifel (1486 - 1567)). He considered the name LEO DECIMVS
> > X, added the values of the constituent letters L,D,C,I,V,X in their
> > meaning of Roman numerals, discarded the other letters because they do
> > not denote a Roman numeral and also the Roman numeral 'M' because its
> > meaning 'Mystery' eliminates its value."
> >http://www.popsubculture.com/pop/bio_project/sub/666.html
> > Note that "LEO DECIMVS X" is Latin for "Leo the tenth the tenth" :-P
> > > On Sat, Nov 7, 2009 at 11:16 PM, Timothy 1:4a <canfanor...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > > > There are several fundies who post here and a great many more who
> > > > occasionally browse. Lots of posts are written especially to them.
> > > > You're not one, so why not ignore the experiment?
> > > > Some fundies do have teflon brains, but I myself know several fundies
> > > > in real life who have deconverted. They are actually easier to
> > > > deconvert than traditional Christians, because fundie ideas are so...
> > > > what's the word I'm looking for... ignorant. A little real knowledge
> > > > goes a long way. For example, Wesleyans believe in a literal six day
> > > > (144 hour) creation and that the world is very close to 6000 years
> > > > old. The varve record alone makes that belief unsupportable.
> > > > If you want to complain about the 9 x 74 = 666 post, why not do it in
> > > > that thread? Frankly I don't think this OP on Cretan cretins is very
> > > > strong, but your response just ain't so: lots of people use the Bible
> > > > as the main prop for their faith.
> > > > On Nov 7, 10:51 am, showmethehoney <alenasha...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> > > > > you are right, plenty of xtians do. they are called fundamentalists.
> > i
> > > > > even think there may be one or two of them here. i guess simon is
> > > > > doing his best to convert them, but from my experiences with fundies,
> > > > > you cant move them with a ton of dynamite. i guess by simon stating
> > > > > that the alphabetic number equivalent of jesus times nine equals 666
> > > > > is trying to engage xtians is a reasonable dialogue seems relevant to
> > > > > you. i see it as antagonistic and if i want to state it as such i
> > > > > will, but thanks for the advice.
> > > > > On Nov 7, 10:36 am, "Timothy 1:4a" <canfanor...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > showme,
> > > > > > Your criticism is not sensible. Plenty of Xians think the Bible is
> > > > > > infallible and base their faith on it. In today's post, Simon is
> > > > > > trying to engage them, not you. Where's the problem?
> > > > > > A better response from you would be to close this thread in your
> > > > > > browser and go look for something that interests you.
> > > > > > On Nov 7, 8:23 am, showmethehoney <alenasha...@googlemail.com>
> > wrote:
> > > > > > > yawn. if all you have to complain about is the words in the
> > bible,
> > > > you
> > > > > > > are not very interested in conversing with xtians, just putting
> > down
> > > > a
> > > > > > > book that many xtians do not follow daily. the bible is not the
> > only
> > > > > > > reason people are xtians. they are not all scared into belief and
> > > > many
> > > > > > > never go to church because they dont buy the dogma. they realize
> > it
> > > > is
> > > > > > > all man-made. why dont you?
> > > > > > > On Nov 7, 7:49 am, Simon Ewins <sjew...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > > Titus 1:12
> > > > > > > > "One of themselves, a prophet of their own, said,"Cretans are
> > > > always liars, evil beasts, lazy gluttons." This testimony is true."
> > > > > > > > If the Cretan Paul quoted was a truth-teller, then what the
> > Cretan
> > > > said (i.e. that all members of the class he belonged to are
> > > > non-truth-tellers), cannot be the truth. If the Cretan was a liar,
> > then,
> > > > for the thing he said to be a lie, the Cretan would have to have been a
> > > > truth-teller. Either way, the proposition contradicts itself, and is
> > > > incapable of being simply true or false. But Paul declared it to be
> > simply
> > > > true, and did so purporting to speak inerrantly for the God who cannot
> > > > "lie" (Heb. 6:18). For one of only two or three times that Paul
> > committed
> > > > himself on a question of fact to turn out to be a piece of semantic
> > > > trickery, gives us an indirect indication of the third kind, that our
> > leg is
> > > > being pulled.
> > > > > > > > Titus 1:12 is a logical paradox. It cannot be either true or
> > false.
> > > > > > > > n Romans 3:7 Paul's confession that he told lies so that he
> > might
> > > > better spread the 'truth of God' is probably the only truth that he
> > ever
> > > > uttered. To make it worse we then find Paul saying, essentially, "I
> > say the
> > > > truth in Christ, I lie not." (in Romans 9:1, Galatians 1:20, and 2
> > > > Corinthians 11:31).
> > > > > > > > Trustworthiness.
> > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > > "The mind is everything. What you think you become."
> > > > > > > > [Buddha]
> > > > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
> > > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
> > > > > - Show quoted text -
> > > > --
> > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> > Groups
> > > > "Atheism vs Christianity" group.
> > > > To post to this group, send email to
> > > > atheism-vs-christianity@googlegroups.com.
> > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
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> On Nov 8, 12:52 am, showmethehoney <alenasha...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> > heres a question maybe you can answer because it honestly stumps me.
> > why do atheists want to talk about something they dont believe in,
> > reasonably or not? i would really like to know because if i didnt
> > believe in something, i wouldnt want it to be the topic of
> > conversation day in and day out. i mean, is there an agenda? is there
> > some goal you are trying to attain?
> > i do admire the persistance of simon and a few others, but wouldnt you
> > guys rather talk about something you do believe in?
> Pardon me, persistence of SE or others, is it any different from yours
> - I wonder.
> :)
> cheers
> student13
> On Nov 8, 12:00 am, student13 <pairam...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Nov 8, 12:52 am, showmethehoney <alenasha...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> > > heres a question maybe you can answer because it honestly stumps me.
> > > why do atheists want to talk about something they dont believe in,
> > > reasonably or not? i would really like to know because if i didnt
> > > believe in something, i wouldnt want it to be the topic of
> > > conversation day in and day out. i mean, is there an agenda? is there
> > > some goal you are trying to attain?
> > > i do admire the persistance of simon and a few others, but wouldnt you
> > > guys rather talk about something you do believe in?
> > Pardon me, persistence of SE or others, is it any different from yours
> > - I wonder.
> > :)
> > cheers
> > student13
> On Nov 9, 5:02 am, showmethehoney <alenasha...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> > i guess youve noticed that ive started 30 threads in the last 4 days?
> LL: A sign of severe obsessive/compulsive disorder!
> ************************
> > On Nov 8, 12:00 am, student13 <pairam...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > On Nov 8, 12:52 am, showmethehoney <alenasha...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> > > > heres a question maybe you can answer because it honestly stumps me.
> > > > why do atheists want to talk about something they dont believe in,
> > > > reasonably or not? i would really like to know because if i didnt
> > > > believe in something, i wouldnt want it to be the topic of
> > > > conversation day in and day out. i mean, is there an agenda? is there
> > > > some goal you are trying to attain?
> > > > i do admire the persistance of simon and a few others, but wouldnt you
> > > > guys rather talk about something you do believe in?
> > > Pardon me, persistence of SE or others, is it any different from yours
> > > - I wonder.
> > > :)
> > > cheers
> > > student13
On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 12:59 PM, Timothy 1:4a <canfanor...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Eek, that's Simon you're talking about, not showme :)
> Apparently Simon dug out an old database and has been cross-posting
> old conversations into AvC. No harm in it.
> On Nov 9, 2:54 pm, LL <llp...@aol.com> wrote:
> > On Nov 9, 5:02 am, showmethehoney <alenasha...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> > > i guess youve noticed that ive started 30 threads in the last 4 days?
> > LL: A sign of severe obsessive/compulsive disorder!
> > ************************
> > > On Nov 8, 12:00 am, student13 <pairam...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > On Nov 8, 12:52 am, showmethehoney <alenasha...@googlemail.com>
> wrote:
> > > > > heres a question maybe you can answer because it honestly stumps
> me.
> > > > > why do atheists want to talk about something they dont believe in,
> > > > > reasonably or not? i would really like to know because if i didnt
> > > > > believe in something, i wouldnt want it to be the topic of
> > > > > conversation day in and day out. i mean, is there an agenda? is
> there
> > > > > some goal you are trying to attain?
> > > > > i do admire the persistance of simon and a few others, but wouldnt
> you
> > > > > guys rather talk about something you do believe in?
> > > > Pardon me, persistence of SE or others, is it any different from
> yours
> > > > - I wonder.
> > > > :)
> > > > cheers
> > > > student13
> --
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> "One of themselves, a prophet of their own, said,"Cretans are always liars, evil beasts, lazy gluttons." This testimony is true."
> If the Cretan Paul quoted was a truth-teller, then what the Cretan said (i.e. that all members of the class he belonged to are non-truth-tellers), cannot be the truth. If the Cretan was a liar, then, for the thing he said to be a lie, the Cretan would have to have been a truth-teller. Either way, the proposition contradicts itself, and is incapable of being simply true or false. But Paul declared it to be simply true, and did so purporting to speak inerrantly for the God who cannot "lie" (Heb. 6:18). For one of only two or three times that Paul committed himself on a question of fact to turn out to be a piece of semantic trickery, gives us an indirect indication of the third kind, that our leg is being pulled.
> Titus 1:12 is a logical paradox. It cannot be either true or false.
> n Romans 3:7 Paul's confession that he told lies so that he might better spread the 'truth of God' is probably the only truth that he ever uttered. To make it worse we then find Paul saying, essentially, "I say the truth in Christ, I lie not." (in Romans 9:1, Galatians 1:20, and 2 Corinthians 11:31).
> Trustworthiness.
> --
> "The mind is everything. What you think you become."
> [Buddha]
> On Nov 7, 7:49 am, Simon Ewins <sjew...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Titus 1:12
>> "One of themselves, a prophet of their own, said,"Cretans are always liars, evil beasts, lazy gluttons." This testimony is true."
>> If the Cretan Paul quoted was a truth-teller, then what the Cretan said (i.e. that all members of the class he belonged to are non-truth-tellers), cannot be the truth. If the Cretan was a liar, then, for the thing he said to be a lie, the Cretan would have to have been a truth-teller. Either way, the proposition contradicts itself, and is incapable of being simply true or false. But Paul declared it to be simply true, and did so purporting to speak inerrantly for the God who cannot "lie" (Heb. 6:18). For one of only two or three times that Paul committed himself on a question of fact to turn out to be a piece of semantic trickery, gives us an indirect indication of the third kind, that our leg is being pulled.
>> Titus 1:12 is a logical paradox. It cannot be either true or false.
>> n Romans 3:7 Paul's confession that he told lies so that he might better spread the 'truth of God' is probably the only truth that he ever uttered. To make it worse we then find Paul saying, essentially, "I say the truth in Christ, I lie not." (in Romans 9:1, Galatians 1:20, and 2 Corinthians 11:31).
>> Trustworthiness.
>> --
>> "The mind is everything. What you think you become."
>> [Buddha]
>> Virtual Gods:http://users3.jabry.com/sjewins/library/__philorelig.htm > --
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-- "In my life, I have prayed but one prayer: Oh Lord, make my enemies ridiculous. And God granted it."
[Voltaire]
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