On Nov 7, 5:36 am, showmethehoney <alenasha...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> aww im guessing your offended.... sorta like you do when you say that
> im narcisstic, feel superior, etc etc etc?
I'm not offended when I say you're narcissistic or when you say you
feel superior. Why would I be?
I'm trying to find a rational explanation for why a grown man would
say he communes with spirits (or whatever the correct verb you use is,
speaking of getting offended) and think that he doesn't need to bother
with evidence that he does. I think pathological narcissism seems to
explain your overall behaviour quite nicely, and no one has offered me
a better explanation.
> On Nov 7, 8:25 am, Neil Kelsey <neil_kel...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > On Nov 7, 3:50 am, showmethehoney <alenasha...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> > > maybe she doesnt care how fast she is moving through space.
> > Why don't you ask her yourself about her emotions towards her
> > question? Whether she cares or not, mountains are moving without the
> > aid of a god.
> > > this may not be as important to her as it is to you.
> > Why did she ask the question then? Maybe we'll never know! Or maybe
> > instead of playing fun guessing games you can ask her yourself. I
> > don't see the relevance, personally. The question is "is there proof
> > that the mountains have moved over the last several centuries?" and
> > the answer is "all of them."
> > > science is neat but it
> > > isnt emotionally gratifying.
> > It's fairly narcissistic of you to tell me my emotions don't count. I
> > don't see why my sense of awe at the natural world is inferior to your
> > sense of awe (you being a theist/spiritualist) at the supernatural
> > world.
> > > i guess her 'ghost' gives her happiness.
> > You're guessing that she's happy. So far I don't particularly see it.
> > And I lack belief that there's a ghost.
> > > why this offends you is something you may want to address.
> > You're guessing that I'm offended. And I lack belief that Doris will
> > grasp that science explains why the mountains are moving without the
> > need for God to exist.
> > > On Nov 7, 1:08 am, Neil Kelsey <neil_kel...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > > > On Nov 6, 6:43 pm, Saint Onan <gigacy...@ozemail.com.au> wrote:
> > > > > > > > I want to ask if the Sciencits know how many moutains have been moved in the
> > > > > > > > last centuries???
> > > > > > > All of them.
> > > > > On Nov 7, 7:14 am, DJ <dr4...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > Do you have proof of this ......
> > > > > Every mountain on Earth, apart from those within the polar circles,
> > > > > has moved at least a thousand miles in the past day. The proof of this
> > > > > is that the sun came up this morning.
> > > > Not to mention that the entire planet is hurtling through space at 30
> > > > km/second.
> > > > I doubt this will have any effect on Doris though. She's still
> > > > struggling with the thought that a ghost dwells within her.- Hide quoted text -
On Sat, Nov 7, 2009 at 7:21 AM, WVProfessor <augus...@verizon.net> wrote:
> According to the official dictates of my Atheist organization Atheists
> have no faith.
> Similarly scientists have no faith. Only the religious have a belief
> not supported by experience.
Experience teaches that God does exist. I had the experience of going down
a highway at 60 miles an hour. A fellow from a side street who was talking
on his cell phone proceeded to come across the highway after looking in the
opposite direction from which I was coming, and when I honked my horn for
him to remove himself from the highway -- he just stopped in the middle of
it.
I yelped Jesus, Jesus, Jesus and turned my wheel to the right, hoping that I
would hit on the back quarter panel - and found to my dismay that I could
not do a donut in these new cars.
I was sliding side-ways down that highway.
I had slowed enough that when I got close to him - I stepped on the gas and
drove around him by going into the street he was supposed to be going down.
Yep! my God is Alive and Well - because without HIS help, I could not have
done what I did.
I am just a little ole lady - who just knows that if you hit something head
on - I sit too close to the steering wheel in order to reach the pedals -
that I am toast!
So - Jesus came to my rescue -- and HE gets all the praise and the glory.
> Scientists have hopw that things will work out like they expect and
> when it happens reliably they have confidence. None of those are
> faith.
> I spit on your word "faith."
> As for the holy ghost, that indicates you need to go to the funny
> farm.
Ah, the Holy Spirit (or ghost), is the *Comforter* that Jesus promised to
send to His Disciples. That *Comforter* is the *down-payment* of a
Christians promised possession.
And Jesus lives, and leads, guides and directs, the lives of those who
believe that *God raised Jesus from the Dead*.
Faith is what St. Paul said was important to our salvation.
And, Faith is what Abraham, Isaac and Jacob (Israel) possessed according to
Hebrews in the Bible.
Faith is what is counted for a Christians righteousness.
Thanking the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ for giving us in this
dispensation the Grace of God in order to make known the wonderfulness of
His Blessings - which I don't have to work for -- Whooopeee!
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
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On Sat, Nov 7, 2009 at 8:57 AM, thea <thea.n...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sat, Nov 7, 2009 at 7:21 AM, WVProfessor <augus...@verizon.net> wrote:
>> According to the official dictates of my Atheist organization Atheists
>> have no faith.
>> Similarly scientists have no faith. Only the religious have a belief
>> not supported by experience.
> Experience teaches that God does exist. I had the experience of going down
> a highway at 60 miles an hour. A fellow from a side street who was talking
> on his cell phone proceeded to come across the highway after looking in the
> opposite direction from which I was coming, and when I honked my horn for
> him to remove himself from the highway -- he just stopped in the middle of
> it.
> I yelped Jesus, Jesus, Jesus
> and turned my wheel to the right, hoping that I would hit on the back
> quarter panel - and found to my dismay that I could not do a donut in these
> new cars.
> I was sliding side-ways down that highway.
> I had slowed enough that when I got close to him - I stepped on the gas and
> drove around him by going into the street he was supposed to be going down.
> Yep! my God is Alive and Well - because without HIS help, I could not have
> done what I did.
> I am just a little ole lady - who just knows that if you hit something head
> on - I sit too close to the steering wheel in order to reach the pedals -
> that I am toast!
> So - Jesus came to my rescue -- and HE gets all the praise and the glory.
>> Scientists have hopw that things will work out like they expect and
>> when it happens reliably they have confidence. None of those are
>> faith.
>> I spit on your word "faith."
>> As for the holy ghost, that indicates you need to go to the funny
>> farm.
> Ah, the Holy Spirit (or ghost), is the *Comforter* that Jesus promised to
> send to His Disciples. That *Comforter* is the *down-payment* of a
> Christians promised possession.
> And Jesus lives, and leads, guides and directs, the lives of those who
> believe that *God raised Jesus from the Dead*.
> Faith is what St. Paul said was important to our salvation.
> And, Faith is what Abraham, Isaac and Jacob (Israel) possessed according to
> Hebrews in the Bible.
> Faith is what is counted for a Christians righteousness.
> Thanking the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ for giving us in this
> dispensation the Grace of God in order to make known the wonderfulness of
> His Blessings - which I don't have to work for -- Whooopeee!
>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>> "Atheism vs Christianity" group.
>> To post to this group, send email to
>> atheism-vs-christianity@googlegroups.com.
>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
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>> .
>> For more options, visit this group at
>> http://groups.google.com/group/atheism-vs-christianity?hl=en.
> --
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[thea]
Wow. You are lucky. Sounds like the laws of motion, inertia, friction, action and reaction and physics in general were on your side that day.
On Sat, Nov 7, 2009 at 7:21 AM, WVProfessor <augus...@verizon.net> wrote:
According to the official dictates of my Atheist organization Atheists
have no faith.
Similarly scientists have no faith. Only the religious have a belief
not supported by experience.
Experience teaches that God does exist. I had the experience of going down a highway at 60 miles an hour. A fellow from a side street who was talking on his cell phone proceeded to come across the highway after looking in the opposite direction from which I was coming, and when I honked my horn for him to remove himself from the highway -- he just stopped in the middle of it.
I yelped Jesus, Jesus, Jesus and turned my wheel to the right, hoping that I would hit on the back quarter panel - and found to my dismay that I could not do a donut in these new cars.
I was sliding side-ways down that highway.
I had slowed enough that when I got close to him - I stepped on the gas and drove around him by going into the street he was supposed to be going down.
Yep! my God is Alive and Well - because without HIS help, I could not have done what I did.
I am just a little ole lady - who just knows that if you hit something head on - I sit too close to the steering wheel in order to reach the pedals - that I am toast!
So - Jesus came to my rescue -- and HE gets all the praise and the glory.
Scientists have hopw that things will work out like they expect and
when it happens reliably they have confidence. None of those are
faith.
I spit on your word "faith."
As for the holy ghost, that indicates you need to go to the funny
farm.
Ah, the Holy Spirit (or ghost), is the *Comforter* that Jesus promised to send to His Disciples. That *Comforter* is the *down-payment* of a Christians promised possession.
And Jesus lives, and leads, guides and directs, the lives of those who believe that *God raised Jesus from the Dead*.
Faith is what St. Paul said was important to our salvation.
And, Faith is what Abraham, Isaac and Jacob (Israel) possessed according to Hebrews in the Bible.
Faith is what is counted for a Christians righteousness.
Thanking the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ for giving us in this dispensation the Grace of God in order to make known the wonderfulness of His Blessings - which I don't have to work for -- Whooopeee!
--
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To post to this group, send email to atheism-vs-christianity@googlegroups.com.
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-- "The mind is everything. What you think you become."
[Buddha]
errrrr... i didnt say you were offended by calling me all of the
adjectives that you love to throw my way. i said you were guessing???
you know neil...as you said that i was guessing you were offended??? i
actually stated that to check out your reaction to unfounded opinions.
since you missed the point i cant get a good handle on it, although i
presume you dont like others speculating about you, as you do to
others.
im trying to find a reason why you dont comprehend that one cannot
prove things that cannot be placed in a lab for scientific scrutiny.
the whole concept of spirit is beyond your grasp if you have to keep
asking for proof of it. but there i go again, barking up a tree with
no cat in it....
On Nov 7, 8:44 am, Neil Kelsey <neil_kel...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On Nov 7, 5:36 am, showmethehoney <alenasha...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> > aww im guessing your offended.... sorta like you do when you say that
> > im narcisstic, feel superior, etc etc etc?
> I'm not offended when I say you're narcissistic or when you say you
> feel superior. Why would I be?
> I'm trying to find a rational explanation for why a grown man would
> say he communes with spirits (or whatever the correct verb you use is,
> speaking of getting offended) and think that he doesn't need to bother
> with evidence that he does. I think pathological narcissism seems to
> explain your overall behaviour quite nicely, and no one has offered me
> a better explanation.
> > On Nov 7, 8:25 am, Neil Kelsey <neil_kel...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > > On Nov 7, 3:50 am, showmethehoney <alenasha...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> > > > maybe she doesnt care how fast she is moving through space.
> > > Why don't you ask her yourself about her emotions towards her
> > > question? Whether she cares or not, mountains are moving without the
> > > aid of a god.
> > > > this may not be as important to her as it is to you.
> > > Why did she ask the question then? Maybe we'll never know! Or maybe
> > > instead of playing fun guessing games you can ask her yourself. I
> > > don't see the relevance, personally. The question is "is there proof
> > > that the mountains have moved over the last several centuries?" and
> > > the answer is "all of them."
> > > > science is neat but it
> > > > isnt emotionally gratifying.
> > > It's fairly narcissistic of you to tell me my emotions don't count. I
> > > don't see why my sense of awe at the natural world is inferior to your
> > > sense of awe (you being a theist/spiritualist) at the supernatural
> > > world.
> > > > i guess her 'ghost' gives her happiness.
> > > You're guessing that she's happy. So far I don't particularly see it.
> > > And I lack belief that there's a ghost.
> > > > why this offends you is something you may want to address.
> > > You're guessing that I'm offended. And I lack belief that Doris will
> > > grasp that science explains why the mountains are moving without the
> > > need for God to exist.
> > > > On Nov 7, 1:08 am, Neil Kelsey <neil_kel...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > On Nov 6, 6:43 pm, Saint Onan <gigacy...@ozemail.com.au> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > I want to ask if the Sciencits know how many moutains have been moved in the
> > > > > > > > > last centuries???
> > > > > > > > All of them.
> > > > > > On Nov 7, 7:14 am, DJ <dr4...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > Do you have proof of this ......
> > > > > > Every mountain on Earth, apart from those within the polar circles,
> > > > > > has moved at least a thousand miles in the past day. The proof of this
> > > > > > is that the sun came up this morning.
> > > > > Not to mention that the entire planet is hurtling through space at 30
> > > > > km/second.
> > > > > I doubt this will have any effect on Doris though. She's still
> > > > > struggling with the thought that a ghost dwells within her.- Hide quoted text -
> On Sat, Nov 7, 2009 at 8:57 AM, thea <thea.n...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Sat, Nov 7, 2009 at 7:21 AM, WVProfessor <augus...@verizon.net> wrote:
> >> According to the official dictates of my Atheist organization Atheists
> >> have no faith.
> >> Similarly scientists have no faith. Only the religious have a belief
> >> not supported by experience.
> > Experience teaches that God does exist. I had the experience of going down
> > a highway at 60 miles an hour. A fellow from a side street who was talking
> > on his cell phone proceeded to come across the highway after looking in the
> > opposite direction from which I was coming, and when I honked my horn for
> > him to remove himself from the highway -- he just stopped in the middle of
> > it.
> > I yelped Jesus, Jesus, Jesus
> Wow Thea. I do that too ...
> Only it's usually Jesus F******g Christ ;-)
> > and turned my wheel to the right, hoping that I would hit on the back
> > quarter panel - and found to my dismay that I could not do a donut in these
> > new cars.
> > I was sliding side-ways down that highway.
> > I had slowed enough that when I got close to him - I stepped on the gas and
> > drove around him by going into the street he was supposed to be going down.
> > Yep! my God is Alive and Well - because without HIS help, I could not have
> > done what I did.
> > I am just a little ole lady - who just knows that if you hit something head
> > on - I sit too close to the steering wheel in order to reach the pedals -
> > that I am toast!
> > So - Jesus came to my rescue -- and HE gets all the praise and the glory.
> >> Scientists have hopw that things will work out like they expect and
> >> when it happens reliably they have confidence. None of those are
> >> faith.
> >> I spit on your word "faith."
> >> As for the holy ghost, that indicates you need to go to the funny
> >> farm.
> > Ah, the Holy Spirit (or ghost), is the *Comforter* that Jesus promised to
> > send to His Disciples. That *Comforter* is the *down-payment* of a
> > Christians promised possession.
> > And Jesus lives, and leads, guides and directs, the lives of those who
> > believe that *God raised Jesus from the Dead*.
> > Faith is what St. Paul said was important to our salvation.
> > And, Faith is what Abraham, Isaac and Jacob (Israel) possessed according to
> > Hebrews in the Bible.
> > Faith is what is counted for a Christians righteousness.
> > Thanking the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ for giving us in this
> > dispensation the Grace of God in order to make known the wonderfulness of
> > His Blessings - which I don't have to work for -- Whooopeee!
> >> --
> >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> >> "Atheism vs Christianity" group.
> >> To post to this group, send email to
> >> atheism-vs-christianity@googlegroups.com.
> >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> >> atheism-vs-christianity+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com<atheism-vs-christianit y%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups.com>
> >> .
> >> For more options, visit this group at
> >>http://groups.google.com/group/atheism-vs-christianity?hl=en.
> > --
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> > "Atheism vs Christianity" group.
> > To post to this group, send email to
> > atheism-vs-christianity@googlegroups.com.
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> > atheism-vs-christianity+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com<atheism-vs-christianit y%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups.com>
> > .
> > For more options, visit this group at
> >http://groups.google.com/group/atheism-vs-christianity?hl=en.
On Sat, Nov 7, 2009 at 11:15 AM, showmethehoney
<alenasha...@googlemail.com>wrote:
> nice reasonable response trancy. way to follow your own admonitions!
> you go girl! ;-)
And the humor challenged, passive-aggressive strikes again.
I'm well aware that you are intellectually incapable of grasping abstract
thought (something required to understand humor) but most people are ashamed
to display their ignorance in public and so blatantly.
> On Nov 7, 9:03 am, Trance Gemini <trancegemi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Sat, Nov 7, 2009 at 8:57 AM, thea <thea.n...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > On Sat, Nov 7, 2009 at 7:21 AM, WVProfessor <augus...@verizon.net>
> wrote:
> > >> According to the official dictates of my Atheist organization Atheists
> > >> have no faith.
> > >> Similarly scientists have no faith. Only the religious have a belief
> > >> not supported by experience.
> > > Experience teaches that God does exist. I had the experience of going
> down
> > > a highway at 60 miles an hour. A fellow from a side street who was
> talking
> > > on his cell phone proceeded to come across the highway after looking in
> the
> > > opposite direction from which I was coming, and when I honked my horn
> for
> > > him to remove himself from the highway -- he just stopped in the middle
> of
> > > it.
> > > I yelped Jesus, Jesus, Jesus
> > Wow Thea. I do that too ...
> > Only it's usually Jesus F******g Christ ;-)
> > > and turned my wheel to the right, hoping that I would hit on the back
> > > quarter panel - and found to my dismay that I could not do a donut in
> these
> > > new cars.
> > > I was sliding side-ways down that highway.
> > > I had slowed enough that when I got close to him - I stepped on the gas
> and
> > > drove around him by going into the street he was supposed to be going
> down.
> > > Yep! my God is Alive and Well - because without HIS help, I could not
> have
> > > done what I did.
> > > I am just a little ole lady - who just knows that if you hit something
> head
> > > on - I sit too close to the steering wheel in order to reach the pedals
> -
> > > that I am toast!
> > > So - Jesus came to my rescue -- and HE gets all the praise and the
> glory.
> > >> Scientists have hopw that things will work out like they expect and
> > >> when it happens reliably they have confidence. None of those are
> > >> faith.
> > >> I spit on your word "faith."
> > >> As for the holy ghost, that indicates you need to go to the funny
> > >> farm.
> > > Ah, the Holy Spirit (or ghost), is the *Comforter* that Jesus promised
> to
> > > send to His Disciples. That *Comforter* is the *down-payment* of a
> > > Christians promised possession.
> > > And Jesus lives, and leads, guides and directs, the lives of those who
> > > believe that *God raised Jesus from the Dead*.
> > > Faith is what St. Paul said was important to our salvation.
> > > And, Faith is what Abraham, Isaac and Jacob (Israel) possessed
> according to
> > > Hebrews in the Bible.
> > > Faith is what is counted for a Christians righteousness.
> > > Thanking the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ for giving us in
> this
> > > dispensation the Grace of God in order to make known the wonderfulness
> of
> > > His Blessings - which I don't have to work for -- Whooopeee!
> > >> --
> > >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> Groups
> > >> "Atheism vs Christianity" group.
> > >> To post to this group, send email to
> > >> atheism-vs-christianity@googlegroups.com.
> > >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> > >> atheism-vs-christianity+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com<atheism-vs-christianit y%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups.com>
> <atheism-vs-christianity%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups.com<y%252Bunsubscribe@ googlegroups.com>
> > > --
> > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> Groups
> > > "Atheism vs Christianity" group.
> > > To post to this group, send email to
> > > atheism-vs-christianity@googlegroups.com.
> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> > > atheism-vs-christianity+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com<atheism-vs-christianit y%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups.com>
> <atheism-vs-christianity%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups.com<y%252Bunsubscribe@ googlegroups.com>
> > --
> > High Priestess of Ribbonology
> > God Is A Ribbon!
> > All Hail The Great Ribbon In The Skyhttp://
> science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2009/15oct_ibex.htm?list1303103- Hide quoted
> text -
> > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
> > - Show quoted text -
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "Atheism vs Christianity" group.
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On Nov 7, 8:13 am, showmethehoney <alenasha...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> errrrr... i didnt say you were offended by calling me all of the
> adjectives that you love to throw my way. i said you were guessing???
But I'm not guessing. Your posts show you to be narcissistic and that
you think you're superior to atheists.
> you know neil...as you said that i was guessing you were offended???
I think you are, because I don't think I'm acting like I'm offended.
I'm prepared to be proved wrong about that.
> i actually stated that to check out your reaction to unfounded opinions.
Which ones were the unfounded opinions? That I'm offended? I don't
know if they're unfounded or not, I'm waiting for you to provide
evidence. I don't feel offended, but people often act unconsciously,
as you demonstrate constantly.
> since you missed the point i cant get a good handle on it, although i
> presume you dont like others speculating about you, as you do to
> others.
Speculate away.
> im trying to find a reason why you dont comprehend that one cannot
> prove things that cannot be placed in a lab for scientific scrutiny.
I'm trying to comprehend why you think I should believe you when you
know you can't prove things that can't be placed in a lab for
scientific scrutiny.
I see no reason to believe that there are mind reading species out
there whose defining trait is that they only reveal themselves to
people with just the right attitude. The rational explanation is that
these supernatural beings are just a function of the mind of the
person claiming they exist. I can understand why you make claims that
"spirits" exist on that basis.
> the whole concept of spirit is beyond your grasp if you have to keep
> asking for proof of it.
I get the concept of supernatural beings, you just don't get the
concept of logic. Special pleading fallacies do not exempt "spirit"
from empirical examination.
> but there i go again, barking up a tree with
> no cat in it....
Aw, you just insulted me. How is that different from name calling,
exactly? Remind me again why aren't you a hypocrite?
> On Nov 7, 8:44 am, Neil Kelsey <neil_kel...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > On Nov 7, 5:36 am, showmethehoney <alenasha...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> > > aww im guessing your offended.... sorta like you do when you say that
> > > im narcisstic, feel superior, etc etc etc?
> > I'm not offended when I say you're narcissistic or when you say you
> > feel superior. Why would I be?
> > I'm trying to find a rational explanation for why a grown man would
> > say he communes with spirits (or whatever the correct verb you use is,
> > speaking of getting offended) and think that he doesn't need to bother
> > with evidence that he does. I think pathological narcissism seems to
> > explain your overall behaviour quite nicely, and no one has offered me
> > a better explanation.
> > > On Nov 7, 8:25 am, Neil Kelsey <neil_kel...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > > > On Nov 7, 3:50 am, showmethehoney <alenasha...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> > > > > maybe she doesnt care how fast she is moving through space.
> > > > Why don't you ask her yourself about her emotions towards her
> > > > question? Whether she cares or not, mountains are moving without the
> > > > aid of a god.
> > > > > this may not be as important to her as it is to you.
> > > > Why did she ask the question then? Maybe we'll never know! Or maybe
> > > > instead of playing fun guessing games you can ask her yourself. I
> > > > don't see the relevance, personally. The question is "is there proof
> > > > that the mountains have moved over the last several centuries?" and
> > > > the answer is "all of them."
> > > > > science is neat but it
> > > > > isnt emotionally gratifying.
> > > > It's fairly narcissistic of you to tell me my emotions don't count. I
> > > > don't see why my sense of awe at the natural world is inferior to your
> > > > sense of awe (you being a theist/spiritualist) at the supernatural
> > > > world.
> > > > > i guess her 'ghost' gives her happiness.
> > > > You're guessing that she's happy. So far I don't particularly see it.
> > > > And I lack belief that there's a ghost.
> > > > > why this offends you is something you may want to address.
> > > > You're guessing that I'm offended. And I lack belief that Doris will
> > > > grasp that science explains why the mountains are moving without the
> > > > need for God to exist.
> > > > > On Nov 7, 1:08 am, Neil Kelsey <neil_kel...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > On Nov 6, 6:43 pm, Saint Onan <gigacy...@ozemail.com.au> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > I want to ask if the Sciencits know how many moutains have been moved in the
> > > > > > > > > > last centuries???
> > > > > > > > > All of them.
> > > > > > > On Nov 7, 7:14 am, DJ <dr4...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > > Do you have proof of this ......
> > > > > > > Every mountain on Earth, apart from those within the polar circles,
> > > > > > > has moved at least a thousand miles in the past day. The proof of this
> > > > > > > is that the sun came up this morning.
> > > > > > Not to mention that the entire planet is hurtling through space at 30
> > > > > > km/second.
> > > > > > I doubt this will have any effect on Doris though. She's still
> > > > > > struggling with the thought that a ghost dwells within her.- Hide quoted text -
> > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
On Fri, Nov 6, 2009 at 8:40 PM, Neil Kelsey <neil_kel...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On Nov 6, 7:07 pm, Doris Ragland <dr4...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Lets word this right--delusional--not true---communicate with supenatural
> > beings--I did not say that--would you please read what I say right---I
> said
> > this the Holy Ghost within me--which it does and is not supernatural
> > beings----
> supernatural –adjective (from dictionary.com)
> 1. of, pertaining to, or being above or beyond what is natural;
> unexplainable by natural law or phenomena; abnormal.
> 2. of, pertaining to, characteristic of, or attributed to God or a
> deity.
> 3. of a superlative degree; preternatural: a missile of supernatural
> speed.
> 4. of, pertaining to, or attributed to ghosts, goblins, or other
> unearthly beings; eerie; occult.
> Notice definition #2.
> The "Holy Ghost" is a supernatural being, by definition.
> >Now the only way you could prove me wrong is to met me eye to eye
> > and be in my presence...
> Millions of others have claimed to have this "Holy Spirit" besides
> you, and none of them have produced evidence that it's true either.
> You can make all the wild claims you want, and I don't have to be in
> your presence for you to be wrong.
> > so since that is not going to happen you think what
> > you want....the proof is here in me....
> Do you know what an "unsupported assertion" is?
> > and my Father in heaven is my
> > wittness...and the spirit bears wittness with one another....
> Unsupported assertions are not evidence that God or the Holy Spirit
> exist. You need to provide evidence to have any credibility.
> > On Fri, Nov 6, 2009 at 6:07 PM, Neil Kelsey <neil_kel...@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
> > > On Nov 6, 5:10 pm, Doris Ragland <dr4...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > spirit upon me- overshadowing - within me--what better wittness than
> that
> > > in
> > > > knowing it exist- I cannot help you don't have that special
> gift...not my
> > > > fault---not my imagination- not in my dreams--
> > > I lack belief that you have a "special gift." I think you, like
> > > "showmethehoney," are simply delusional if you think you communicate
> > > with supernatural beings.
> > > > On Fri, Nov 6, 2009 at 1:03 PM, Neil Kelsey <neil_kel...@hotmail.com
> > > wrote:
> > > > > On Nov 6, 12:42 pm, showmethehoney <alenasha...@googlemail.com>
> wrote:
> > > > > > unfortunately, some people do not need proof to make factual
> sounding
> > > > > > statements
> > > > > Like you, when you say "spirits exist"?
> > > > > At least I can support my statements with objective, verifiable,
> and
> > > > > falifiable evidence. Apparently, you are so fantastic that you
> don't
> > > > > need to bother with piddly details like that.
> > > > > > On Nov 6, 3:14 pm, DJ <dr4...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > Do you have proof of this ......
> > > > > > > On Nov 6, 10:58 am, Neil Kelsey <neil_kel...@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
> > > > > > > > On Nov 6, 10:26 am, Doris Ragland <dr4...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > Ok I wanted to set some guidelines and examples on
> > > Faith---before
> > > > > this gets
> > > > > > > > > started----
> > > > > > > > > I want to ask if the Sciencits know how many moutains have
> been
> > > > > moved in the
> > > > > > > > > last centuries???
> > > > > > > > All of them.
> > > > > > > > > The count---Jesus said if you have the seed of a mustard
> > > > > > > > > seed you can move moutains--
> > > > > > > > The shifting of the Earth's tectonic plates moves mountains.
> > > > > > > > > Of coarse--It will be stated it is Natural
> > > > > > > > > law--so did God move some of these moutains?
> > > > > > > > There's no evidence that he did.
> > > > > > > > > I will try to stay on these
> > > > > > > > > guidelines as I go..alot of it will be history-past-some
> > > present---
> > > > > > > > Before you get started, the Bible isn't history, it is
> mythology.
> > > > > > > > > I half to
> > > > > > > > > go --will finish
> > > > > > > > > > Deuteronomy32-20--And he said I will hide my face from
> them,
> > > I
> > > > > will see
> > > > > > > > > > what their
> > > > > > > > > > end shall be: for they are a very froward generation,
> > > children in
> > > > > whom is
> > > > > > > > > > no faith.
> > > > > > > > > > St.Matthew 6-30- Wherefore, if God so clothe the grass
> of
> > > the
> > > > > field, which
> > > > > > > > > > today is, and tomorrow is cast into the oven, shall he
> not
> > > much
> > > > > more clothe
> > > > > > > > > > you, O ye of little faith?
> > > > > > > > > > St.Matthew 9-21-22- For she said within herself, if I may
> but
> > > > > touch his
> > > > > > > > > > garment, I shall be made whole: 22-But Jesus turned him
> > > about,
> > > > > and wehen he
> > > > > > > > > > saw her, he, said Daughter, be of good comfofrt; thy
> faith
> > > hath
> > > > > made thee
> > > > > > > > > > whole;
> > > > > > > > > > St.Matthew21-21- Jesus answered and said to them, Verily
> I
> > > say
> > > > > unto you, If
> > > > > > > > > > ye have faith, and doubt not, ye shall not only do this
> which
> > > is
> > > > > done to the
> > > > > > > > > > fig tree, but also if ye shall say unto this mountain, Be
> > > thou
> > > > > removed, and
> > > > > > > > > > be thou cast into the sea; it shall be done---(Science)
> > > > > > > > > > St.Luke 17-5- And the apostles said unto the Lord,
> Increase
> > > our
> > > > > faith.
> > > > > > > > > > Romans: By whom we have received grace and apostleship,
> for
> > > > > obedience to
> > > > > > > > > > the faith among all nations, for his name
> > > > > > > > > > Romans: 4-5- But to him that worketh is the reward not
> > > reckoned
> > > > > of grace,
> > > > > > > > > > but of debt--But to him that worketh not, but believeth
> on
> > > him
> > > > > that
> > > > > > > > > > justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for
> > > righteouness...
> > > > > > > > > > Romans: 5-1- Therefore being justified by faith, we have
> > > peace
> > > > > with God
> > > > > > > > > > through our Lord Jesus Christ.
> > > > > > > > > > Romans: 10-8- But what saith it? The word is nigh thee,
> even
> > > in
> > > > > thy mouth,
> > > > > > > > > > and in thy heart: that is,the word of faith, which we
> preach.
> > > > > > > > > > Romans: 12-3- For I say, through the grace given unto me,
> to
> > > > > every man that
> > > > > > > > > > is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he
> > > ought
> > > > > to think;
> > > > > > > > > > but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to
> every
> > > man
> > > > > the measure
> > > > > > > > > > of faith
> > > > > > > > > > Romans: 14-1--Him that is weak in the faith receive ye,
> but
> > > not
> > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > > (doubtful disputations.
> > > > > > > > > > 1 Corinthians-2- And though I have the gift of prophecy,
> and
> > > > > understand all
> > > > > > > > > > mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all
> faith,
> > > sot
> > > > > that I could
> > > > > > > > > > remove mountains, and have not charity, (I am nothing)
> > > > > > > > > > 1 Corinthians 15-14- And if Christ be not risen, then is
> our
> > > > > preaching
> > > > > > > > > > vain, and your faith is also vain.
> > > > > > > > > > 2 Corinthians5-7- (For we walk by faith, not by sight;)
> We
> > > are
> > > > > confident, I
> > > > > > > > > > say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and
> to be
> > > > > present with
> > > > > > > > > > the Lord---Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or
> > > absent,
> > > > > we may be
> > > > > > > > > > accepted of him...
> > > > > > > > > > 'Galatians3-7- Therefore they which are of faith or the
> seed
> > > of
> > > > > Abraham.
> > > > > > > > > > Galatians5-6- For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision
> > > availeth
> > > > > any thing,
> > > > > > > > > > nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love
> > > > > > > > > > Hebrews 10-22-Let us draw near with a true heart in full
> > > > > assurance of
> > > > > > > > > > faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil
> conscience,
> > > and
> > > > > our bodies
> > > > > > > > > > washed with (with pure water)
> > > > > > > > > > Hebrews 11-1-Now faith is the (substance of things hoped
> for,
> > > the
> > > > > evidence
> > > > > > > > > > of things not seen)
> > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Nov 6, 2009 at 8:39 AM, Turner Hayes <
> > > > > lordlacol...@gmail.com>wrote:
> > > > > > > > > >> Yet another person equivocating on the definition of
> > > "faith".
> > > > > Can't anyone
> > > > > > > > > >> offer anything new?
> > > > > > > > > >> On Fri, Nov 6, 2009 at 11:36 AM, mdb <
> > > michaeldb...@gmail.com>
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > >>> Is this a better way to consider the title of our
> group?
> > > It
> > > > > seems
> > > > > > > > > >>> that the atheist community really is proposing a faith
> in
> > > > > scientific
> > > > > > > > > >>> evidence versus the Christian community proposing a
> faith
> > > in
> > > > > God.
> > > > > > > > > >>> --
> > > > > > > > > >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to
> the
> > > > > Google Groups
> > > > > > > > > >>> "Atheism vs Christianity" group.
> > > > > > > > > >>> To post to this group, send email to
> > > > > > > > > >>> atheism-vs-christianity@googlegroups.com.
On Nov 7, 9:42 pm, showmethehoney <alenasha...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> unfortunately, no amount of education can lead to the recognition of
> spirit. the way you talk one would think you have a phd in every
> subject on the planet, but yet you are void of spiritual experience. i
> will gladly exchange my experiences for your degrees any day.
> with all your education, you still come across as a very unhappy
> person. you know what they say 'money cant buy you happiness'. the
> same can be said about education. you learn a lot about the physical
> stuff, but have little soul or compassion. imo, the important part of
> life is about emotions, not knowledge. who cares how much you know?
> the real question is, how happy are you?
Obs can speak for himself, but I'd like to point out that what you
call
a spiritual experience does not preclude others like atheists from
having them. What I mean by that is that is all in the descriptors.
I go out of my back door in the mornings, sit on the verandah and
marvel at the magnificent view in front of me. It is uplifting. The
mountain changes colour every moment, the birds are singing, and
some even come in to be fed. The breeze whafts through the
plants. If we've had some rain (and oh we could do with some)
the smell is absolutely magic. The body and mind are uplifted and
peaceful. Some people get these feelings from meditation. Some
get these feelings from experience, and some get these
experiences from fantasy. The feelings are the same, but the
causes are different. From what I understand Obs to be saying, is
that he's simply trying to get you and your like minded colleagues
to understand that. He just has a different way of expressing
himself. There is no need to attack him in the manner you did.
> On Nov 7, 12:45 am, Observer <mayors...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Nov 6, 5:10 pm, Doris Ragland <dr4...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > spirit upon me- overshadowing - within me--what better wittness than that in
> > > knowing it exist- I cannot help you don't have that special gift...not my
> > > fault---not my imagination- not in my dreams--
> > What crap !
> > Doris, you are not of sound mind and do not have the education to
> > understand the biochemistry of the god experience( the hallucinations
> > which tend to bolster ones psychosis )as to the belief in that for
> > which there exists no scientifically verifiable substantiating data
> > for either its existence or any act there of.
> > The uneducated , the ignorant , have not read and do not understand
> > science the criminal misanthrope will not and thereby become the enemy
> > of humankind.
> > Get an education , Please.
> > Psychonomist
> > > On Fri, Nov 6, 2009 at 1:03 PM, Neil Kelsey <neil_kel...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > > > On Nov 6, 12:42 pm, showmethehoney <alenasha...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> > > > > unfortunately, some people do not need proof to make factual sounding
> > > > > statements
> > > > Like you, when you say "spirits exist"?
> > > > At least I can support my statements with objective, verifiable, and
> > > > falifiable evidence. Apparently, you are so fantastic that you don't
> > > > need to bother with piddly details like that.
> > > > > On Nov 6, 3:14 pm, DJ <dr4...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > Do you have proof of this ......
> > > > > > On Nov 6, 10:58 am, Neil Kelsey <neil_kel...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > On Nov 6, 10:26 am, Doris Ragland <dr4...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > > Ok I wanted to set some guidelines and examples on Faith---before
> > > > this gets
> > > > > > > > started----
> > > > > > > > I want to ask if the Sciencits know how many moutains have been
> > > > moved in the
> > > > > > > > last centuries???
> > > > > > > All of them.
> > > > > > > > The count---Jesus said if you have the seed of a mustard
> > > > > > > > seed you can move moutains--
> > > > > > > The shifting of the Earth's tectonic plates moves mountains.
> > > > > > > > Of coarse--It will be stated it is Natural
> > > > > > > > law--so did God move some of these moutains?
> > > > > > > There's no evidence that he did.
> > > > > > > > I will try to stay on these
> > > > > > > > guidelines as I go..alot of it will be history-past-some present---
> > > > > > > Before you get started, the Bible isn't history, it is mythology.
> > > > > > > > I half to
> > > > > > > > go --will finish
> > > > > > > > > Deuteronomy32-20--And he said I will hide my face from them, I
> > > > will see
> > > > > > > > > what their
> > > > > > > > > end shall be: for they are a very froward generation, children in
> > > > whom is
> > > > > > > > > no faith.
> > > > > > > > > St.Matthew 6-30- Wherefore, if God so clothe the grass of the
> > > > field, which
> > > > > > > > > today is, and tomorrow is cast into the oven, shall he not much
> > > > more clothe
> > > > > > > > > you, O ye of little faith?
> > > > > > > > > St.Matthew 9-21-22- For she said within herself, if I may but
> > > > touch his
> > > > > > > > > garment, I shall be made whole: 22-But Jesus turned him about,
> > > > and wehen he
> > > > > > > > > saw her, he, said Daughter, be of good comfofrt; thy faith hath
> > > > made thee
> > > > > > > > > whole;
> > > > > > > > > St.Matthew21-21- Jesus answered and said to them, Verily I say
> > > > unto you, If
> > > > > > > > > ye have faith, and doubt not, ye shall not only do this which is
> > > > done to the
> > > > > > > > > fig tree, but also if ye shall say unto this mountain, Be thou
> > > > removed, and
> > > > > > > > > be thou cast into the sea; it shall be done---(Science)
> > > > > > > > > St.Luke 17-5- And the apostles said unto the Lord, Increase our
> > > > faith.
> > > > > > > > > Romans: By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for
> > > > obedience to
> > > > > > > > > the faith among all nations, for his name
> > > > > > > > > Romans: 4-5- But to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned
> > > > of grace,
> > > > > > > > > but of debt--But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him
> > > > that
> > > > > > > > > justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteouness...
> > > > > > > > > Romans: 5-1- Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace
> > > > with God
> > > > > > > > > through our Lord Jesus Christ.
> > > > > > > > > Romans: 10-8- But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in
> > > > thy mouth,
> > > > > > > > > and in thy heart: that is,the word of faith, which we preach.
> > > > > > > > > Romans: 12-3- For I say, through the grace given unto me, to
> > > > every man that
> > > > > > > > > is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought
> > > > to think;
> > > > > > > > > but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man
> > > > the measure
> > > > > > > > > of faith
> > > > > > > > > Romans: 14-1--Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not
> > > > to
> > > > > > > > > (doubtful disputations.
> > > > > > > > > 1 Corinthians-2- And though I have the gift of prophecy, and
> > > > understand all
> > > > > > > > > mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, sot
> > > > that I could
> > > > > > > > > remove mountains, and have not charity, (I am nothing)
> > > > > > > > > 1 Corinthians 15-14- And if Christ be not risen, then is our
> > > > preaching
> > > > > > > > > vain, and your faith is also vain.
> > > > > > > > > 2 Corinthians5-7- (For we walk by faith, not by sight;) We are
> > > > confident, I
> > > > > > > > > say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be
> > > > present with
> > > > > > > > > the Lord---Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent,
> > > > we may be
> > > > > > > > > accepted of him...
> > > > > > > > > 'Galatians3-7- Therefore they which are of faith or the seed of
> > > > Abraham.
> > > > > > > > > Galatians5-6- For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth
> > > > any thing,
> > > > > > > > > nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love
> > > > > > > > > Hebrews 10-22-Let us draw near with a true heart in full
> > > > assurance of
> > > > > > > > > faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and
> > > > our bodies
> > > > > > > > > washed with (with pure water)
> > > > > > > > > Hebrews 11-1-Now faith is the (substance of things hoped for, the
> > > > evidence
> > > > > > > > > of things not seen)
> > > > > > > > > On Fri, Nov 6, 2009 at 8:39 AM, Turner Hayes <
> > > > lordlacol...@gmail.com>wrote:
> > > > > > > > >> Yet another person equivocating on the definition of "faith".
> > > > Can't anyone
> > > > > > > > >> offer anything new?
> > > > > > > > >> On Fri, Nov 6, 2009 at 11:36 AM, mdb <michaeldb...@gmail.com>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > >>> Is this a better way to consider the title of our group? It
> > > > seems
> > > > > > > > >>> that the atheist community really is proposing a faith in
> > > > scientific
> > > > > > > > >>> evidence versus the Christian community proposing a faith in
> > > > God.
> > > > > > > > >>> --
> > > > > > > > >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the
> > > > Google Groups
> > > > > > > > >>> "Atheism vs Christianity" group.
> > > > > > > > >>> To post to this group, send email to
> > > > > > > > >>> atheism-vs-christianity@googlegroups.com.
> > > > > > > > >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> > > > > > > > >>> atheism-vs-christianity+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com<atheism-vs-christianit y%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups.com>
from what ive seen, observer attacks in every one of his posts. his
typical post is that xtianity is filthy and that the person he is
talking to should get an education. a happy person wouldnt do this imo
but i could be wrong ;-)
in my spiritual experiences the earth did not exist. nothing
transpired in the 'state' i was in that resembled anything i do as a
human. the earth, and humanity, are finite. if everything that is
important to you is in front of your eyes, you will eventually be
quite disappointed, until you become worm candy that is. i have no
such outlook.
On Nov 7, 4:06 pm, philosophy <smwil...@tpg.com.au> wrote:
> On Nov 7, 9:42 pm, showmethehoney <alenasha...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> > unfortunately, no amount of education can lead to the recognition of
> > spirit. the way you talk one would think you have a phd in every
> > subject on the planet, but yet you are void of spiritual experience. i
> > will gladly exchange my experiences for your degrees any day.
> > with all your education, you still come across as a very unhappy
> > person. you know what they say 'money cant buy you happiness'. the
> > same can be said about education. you learn a lot about the physical
> > stuff, but have little soul or compassion. imo, the important part of
> > life is about emotions, not knowledge. who cares how much you know?
> > the real question is, how happy are you?
> Obs can speak for himself, but I'd like to point out that what you
> call
> a spiritual experience does not preclude others like atheists from
> having them. What I mean by that is that is all in the descriptors.
> I go out of my back door in the mornings, sit on the verandah and
> marvel at the magnificent view in front of me. It is uplifting. The
> mountain changes colour every moment, the birds are singing, and
> some even come in to be fed. The breeze whafts through the
> plants. If we've had some rain (and oh we could do with some)
> the smell is absolutely magic. The body and mind are uplifted and
> peaceful. Some people get these feelings from meditation. Some
> get these feelings from experience, and some get these
> experiences from fantasy. The feelings are the same, but the
> causes are different. From what I understand Obs to be saying, is
> that he's simply trying to get you and your like minded colleagues
> to understand that. He just has a different way of expressing
> himself. There is no need to attack him in the manner you did.
> > On Nov 7, 12:45 am, Observer <mayors...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > On Nov 6, 5:10 pm, Doris Ragland <dr4...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > spirit upon me- overshadowing - within me--what better wittness than that in
> > > > knowing it exist- I cannot help you don't have that special gift...not my
> > > > fault---not my imagination- not in my dreams--
> > > What crap !
> > > Doris, you are not of sound mind and do not have the education to
> > > understand the biochemistry of the god experience( the hallucinations
> > > which tend to bolster ones psychosis )as to the belief in that for
> > > which there exists no scientifically verifiable substantiating data
> > > for either its existence or any act there of.
> > > The uneducated , the ignorant , have not read and do not understand
> > > science the criminal misanthrope will not and thereby become the enemy
> > > of humankind.
> > > Get an education , Please.
> > > Psychonomist
> > > > On Fri, Nov 6, 2009 at 1:03 PM, Neil Kelsey <neil_kel...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > On Nov 6, 12:42 pm, showmethehoney <alenasha...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > unfortunately, some people do not need proof to make factual sounding
> > > > > > statements
> > > > > Like you, when you say "spirits exist"?
> > > > > At least I can support my statements with objective, verifiable, and
> > > > > falifiable evidence. Apparently, you are so fantastic that you don't
> > > > > need to bother with piddly details like that.
> > > > > > On Nov 6, 3:14 pm, DJ <dr4...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > Do you have proof of this ......
> > > > > > > On Nov 6, 10:58 am, Neil Kelsey <neil_kel...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > > On Nov 6, 10:26 am, Doris Ragland <dr4...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > Ok I wanted to set some guidelines and examples on Faith---before
> > > > > this gets
> > > > > > > > > started----
> > > > > > > > > I want to ask if the Sciencits know how many moutains have been
> > > > > moved in the
> > > > > > > > > last centuries???
> > > > > > > > All of them.
> > > > > > > > > The count---Jesus said if you have the seed of a mustard
> > > > > > > > > seed you can move moutains--
> > > > > > > > The shifting of the Earth's tectonic plates moves mountains.
> > > > > > > > > Of coarse--It will be stated it is Natural
> > > > > > > > > law--so did God move some of these moutains?
> > > > > > > > There's no evidence that he did.
> > > > > > > > > I will try to stay on these
> > > > > > > > > guidelines as I go..alot of it will be history-past-some present---
> > > > > > > > Before you get started, the Bible isn't history, it is mythology.
> > > > > > > > > I half to
> > > > > > > > > go --will finish
> > > > > > > > > > Deuteronomy32-20--And he said I will hide my face from them, I
> > > > > will see
> > > > > > > > > > what their
> > > > > > > > > > end shall be: for they are a very froward generation, children in
> > > > > whom is
> > > > > > > > > > no faith.
> > > > > > > > > > St.Matthew 6-30- Wherefore, if God so clothe the grass of the
> > > > > field, which
> > > > > > > > > > today is, and tomorrow is cast into the oven, shall he not much
> > > > > more clothe
> > > > > > > > > > you, O ye of little faith?
> > > > > > > > > > St.Matthew 9-21-22- For she said within herself, if I may but
> > > > > touch his
> > > > > > > > > > garment, I shall be made whole: 22-But Jesus turned him about,
> > > > > and wehen he
> > > > > > > > > > saw her, he, said Daughter, be of good comfofrt; thy faith hath
> > > > > made thee
> > > > > > > > > > whole;
> > > > > > > > > > St.Matthew21-21- Jesus answered and said to them, Verily I say
> > > > > unto you, If
> > > > > > > > > > ye have faith, and doubt not, ye shall not only do this which is
> > > > > done to the
> > > > > > > > > > fig tree, but also if ye shall say unto this mountain, Be thou
> > > > > removed, and
> > > > > > > > > > be thou cast into the sea; it shall be done---(Science)
> > > > > > > > > > St.Luke 17-5- And the apostles said unto the Lord, Increase our
> > > > > faith.
> > > > > > > > > > Romans: By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for
> > > > > obedience to
> > > > > > > > > > the faith among all nations, for his name
> > > > > > > > > > Romans: 4-5- But to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned
> > > > > of grace,
> > > > > > > > > > but of debt--But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him
> > > > > that
> > > > > > > > > > justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteouness...
> > > > > > > > > > Romans: 5-1- Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace
> > > > > with God
> > > > > > > > > > through our Lord Jesus Christ.
> > > > > > > > > > Romans: 10-8- But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in
> > > > > thy mouth,
> > > > > > > > > > and in thy heart: that is,the word of faith, which we preach.
> > > > > > > > > > Romans: 12-3- For I say, through the grace given unto me, to
> > > > > every man that
> > > > > > > > > > is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought
> > > > > to think;
> > > > > > > > > > but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man
> > > > > the measure
> > > > > > > > > > of faith
> > > > > > > > > > Romans: 14-1--Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not
> > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > > (doubtful disputations.
> > > > > > > > > > 1 Corinthians-2- And though I have the gift of prophecy, and
> > > > > understand all
> > > > > > > > > > mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, sot
> > > > > that I could
> > > > > > > > > > remove mountains, and have not charity, (I am nothing)
> > > > > > > > > > 1 Corinthians 15-14- And if Christ be not risen, then is our
> > > > > preaching
> > > > > > > > > > vain, and your faith is also vain.
> > > > > > > > > > 2 Corinthians5-7- (For we walk by faith, not by sight;) We are
> > > > > confident, I
> > > > > > > > > > say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be
> > > > > present with
> > > > > > > > > > the Lord---Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent,
> > > > > we may be
> > > > > > > > > > accepted of him...
> > > > > > > > > > 'Galatians3-7- Therefore they which are of faith or the seed of
> > > > > Abraham.
> > > > > > > > > > Galatians5-6- For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth
> > > > > any thing,
> > > > > > > > > > nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love
> > > > > > > > > > Hebrews 10-22-Let us draw near with a true heart in full
> > > > > assurance of
> > > > > > > > > > faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and
> > > > > our bodies
> > > > > > > > > > washed with (with pure water)
> > > > > > > > > > Hebrews 11-1-Now faith is the (substance of things hoped for, the
> > > > > evidence
> > > > > > > > > > of things not seen)
> > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Nov 6, 2009 at 8:39 AM, Turner Hayes <
> > > > > lordlacol...@gmail.com>wrote:
> > > > > > > > > >> Yet another person equivocating on the definition of "faith".
> > > > > Can't anyone
> > On Nov 6, 7:07 pm, Doris Ragland <dr4...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > Lets word this right--delusional--not true---communicate with supenatural
> > > beings--I did not say that--would you please read what I say right---I
> > said
> > > this the Holy Ghost within me--which it does and is not supernatural
> > > beings----
> > supernatural –adjective (from dictionary.com)
> > 1. of, pertaining to, or being above or beyond what is natural;
> > unexplainable by natural law or phenomena; abnormal.
> > 2. of, pertaining to, characteristic of, or attributed to God or a
> > deity.
> > 3. of a superlative degree; preternatural: a missile of supernatural
> > speed.
> > 4. of, pertaining to, or attributed to ghosts, goblins, or other
> > unearthly beings; eerie; occult.
> > Notice definition #2.
> > The "Holy Ghost" is a supernatural being, by definition.
> > >Now the only way you could prove me wrong is to met me eye to eye
> > > and be in my presence...
> > Millions of others have claimed to have this "Holy Spirit" besides
> > you, and none of them have produced evidence that it's true either.
> > You can make all the wild claims you want, and I don't have to be in
> > your presence for you to be wrong.
> > > so since that is not going to happen you think what
> > > you want....the proof is here in me....
> > Do you know what an "unsupported assertion" is?
> > > and my Father in heaven is my
> > > wittness...and the spirit bears wittness with one another....
> > Unsupported assertions are not evidence that God or the Holy Spirit
> > exist. You need to provide evidence to have any credibility.
> > > On Fri, Nov 6, 2009 at 6:07 PM, Neil Kelsey <neil_kel...@hotmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > > > On Nov 6, 5:10 pm, Doris Ragland <dr4...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > spirit upon me- overshadowing - within me--what better wittness than
> > that
> > > > in
> > > > > knowing it exist- I cannot help you don't have that special
> > gift...not my
> > > > > fault---not my imagination- not in my dreams--
> > > > I lack belief that you have a "special gift." I think you, like
> > > > "showmethehoney," are simply delusional if you think you communicate
> > > > with supernatural beings.
> > > > > On Fri, Nov 6, 2009 at 1:03 PM, Neil Kelsey <neil_kel...@hotmail.com
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > > On Nov 6, 12:42 pm, showmethehoney <alenasha...@googlemail.com>
> > wrote:
> > > > > > > unfortunately, some people do not need proof to make factual
> > sounding
> > > > > > > statements
> > > > > > Like you, when you say "spirits exist"?
> > > > > > At least I can support my statements with objective, verifiable,
> > and
> > > > > > falifiable evidence. Apparently, you are so fantastic that you
> > don't
> > > > > > need to bother with piddly details like that.
> > > > > > > On Nov 6, 3:14 pm, DJ <dr4...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > > Do you have proof of this ......
> > > > > > > > On Nov 6, 10:58 am, Neil Kelsey <neil_kel...@hotmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > On Nov 6, 10:26 am, Doris Ragland <dr4...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > Ok I wanted to set some guidelines and examples on
> > > > Faith---before
> > > > > > this gets
> > > > > > > > > > started----
> > > > > > > > > > I want to ask if the Sciencits know how many moutains have
> > been
> > > > > > moved in the
> > > > > > > > > > last centuries???
> > > > > > > > > All of them.
> > > > > > > > > > The count---Jesus said if you have the seed of a mustard
> > > > > > > > > > seed you can move moutains--
> > > > > > > > > The shifting of the Earth's tectonic plates moves mountains.
> > > > > > > > > > Of coarse--It will be stated it is Natural
> > > > > > > > > > law--so did God move some of these moutains?
> > > > > > > > > There's no evidence that he did.
> > > > > > > > > > I will try to stay on these
> > > > > > > > > > guidelines as I go..alot of it will be history-past-some
> > > > present---
> > > > > > > > > Before you get started, the Bible isn't history, it is
> > mythology.
> > > > > > > > > > I half to
> > > > > > > > > > go --will finish
> > > > > > > > > > > Deuteronomy32-20--And he said I will hide my face from
> > them,
> > > > I
> > > > > > will see
> > > > > > > > > > > what their
> > > > > > > > > > > end shall be: for they are a very froward generation,
> > > > children in
> > > > > > whom is
> > > > > > > > > > > no faith.
> > > > > > > > > > > St.Matthew 6-30- Wherefore, if God so clothe the grass
> > of
> > > > the
> > > > > > field, which
> > > > > > > > > > > today is, and tomorrow is cast into the oven, shall he
> > not
> > > > much
> > > > > > more clothe
> > > > > > > > > > > you, O ye of little faith?
> > > > > > > > > > > St.Matthew 9-21-22- For she said within herself, if I may
> > but
> > > > > > touch his
> > > > > > > > > > > garment, I shall be made whole: 22-But Jesus turned him
> > > > about,
> > > > > > and wehen he
> > > > > > > > > > > saw her, he, said Daughter, be of good comfofrt; thy
> > faith
> > > > hath
> > > > > > made thee
> > > > > > > > > > > whole;
> > > > > > > > > > > St.Matthew21-21- Jesus answered and said to them, Verily
> > I
> > > > say
> > > > > > unto you, If
> > > > > > > > > > > ye have faith, and doubt not, ye shall not only do this
> > which
> > > > is
> > > > > > done to the
> > > > > > > > > > > fig tree, but also if ye shall say unto this mountain, Be
> > > > thou
> > > > > > removed, and
> > > > > > > > > > > be thou cast into the sea; it shall be done---(Science)
> > > > > > > > > > > St.Luke 17-5- And the apostles said unto the Lord,
> > Increase
> > > > our
> > > > > > faith.
> > > > > > > > > > > Romans: By whom we have received grace and apostleship,
> > for
> > > > > > obedience to
> > > > > > > > > > > the faith among all nations, for his name
> > > > > > > > > > > Romans: 4-5- But to him that worketh is the reward not
> > > > reckoned
> > > > > > of grace,
> > > > > > > > > > > but of debt--But to him that worketh not, but believeth
> > on
> > > > him
> > > > > > that
> > > > > > > > > > > justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for
> > > > righteouness...
> > > > > > > > > > > Romans: 5-1- Therefore being justified by faith, we have
> > > > peace
> > > > > > with God
> > > > > > > > > > > through our Lord Jesus Christ.
> > > > > > > > > > > Romans: 10-8- But what saith it? The word is nigh thee,
> > even
> > > > in
> > > > > > thy mouth,
> > > > > > > > > > > and in thy heart: that is,the word of faith, which we
> > preach.
> > > > > > > > > > > Romans: 12-3- For I say, through the grace given unto me,
> > to
> > > > > > every man that
> > > > > > > > > > > is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he
> > > > ought
> > > > > > to think;
> > > > > > > > > > > but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to
> > every
> > > > man
> > > > > > the measure
> > > > > > > > > > > of faith
> > > > > > > > > > > Romans: 14-1--Him that is weak in the faith receive ye,
> > but
> > > > not
> > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > > > (doubtful disputations.
> > > > > > > > > > > 1 Corinthians-2- And though I have the gift of prophecy,
> > and
> > > > > > understand all
> > > > > > > > > > > mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all
> > faith,
> > > > sot
> > > > > > that I could
> > > > > > > > > > > remove mountains, and have not charity, (I am nothing)
> > > > > > > > > > > 1 Corinthians 15-14- And if Christ be not risen, then is
> > our
> > > > > > preaching
> > > > > > > > > > > vain, and your faith is also vain.
> > > > > > > > > > > 2 Corinthians5-7- (For we walk by faith, not by sight;)
> > We
> > > > are
> > > > > > confident, I
> > > > > > > > > > > say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and
> > to be
> > > > > > present with
> > > > > > > > > > > the Lord---Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or
> > > > absent,
> > > > > > we may be
> > > > > > > > > > > accepted of him...
> > > > > > > > > > > 'Galatians3-7- Therefore they which are of faith or the
> > seed
> > > > of
> > > > > > Abraham.
> > > > > > > > > > > Galatians5-6- For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision
> > > > availeth
> > > > > > any thing,
> > > > > > > > > > > nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love
> > > > > > > > > > > Hebrews 10-22-Let us draw near with a true heart in full
> > > > > > assurance of
> > > > > > > > > > > faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil
> > conscience,
> > > > and
> > > > > > our bodies
> > > > > > > > > > > washed with (with pure water)
> > > > > > > > > > > Hebrews 11-1-Now faith is the (substance of things hoped
> > for,
> > > > the
> > > > > > evidence
> > > > > > > > > > > of things not seen)
> > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Nov 6, 2009 at 8:39 AM, Turner Hayes <
> > > > > > lordlacol...@gmail.com>wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > >> Yet another person equivocating on the definition of
> > > > "faith".
> > > > > > Can't anyone
> > > > > > > > > > >> offer anything new?
On Nov 7, 4:24 pm, showmethehoney <alenasha...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> from what ive seen, observer attacks in every one of his posts. his
> typical post is that xtianity is filthy and that the person he is
> talking to should get an education. a happy person wouldnt do this imo
> but i could be wrong ;-)
> in my spiritual experiences the earth did not exist.
Well, there we go. Your experiences clearly never happened (or at
least not what you think they are).
I'm sure that if the Earth ceased to exist at any point in history we
would know about it.
> nothing
> transpired in the 'state' i was in that resembled anything i do as a
> human. the earth, and humanity, are finite. if everything that is
> important to you is in front of your eyes, you will eventually be
> quite disappointed, until you become worm candy that is. i have no
> such outlook.
> On Nov 7, 4:06 pm, philosophy <smwil...@tpg.com.au> wrote:
> > On Nov 7, 9:42 pm, showmethehoney <alenasha...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> > > unfortunately, no amount of education can lead to the recognition of
> > > spirit. the way you talk one would think you have a phd in every
> > > subject on the planet, but yet you are void of spiritual experience. i
> > > will gladly exchange my experiences for your degrees any day.
> > > with all your education, you still come across as a very unhappy
> > > person. you know what they say 'money cant buy you happiness'. the
> > > same can be said about education. you learn a lot about the physical
> > > stuff, but have little soul or compassion. imo, the important part of
> > > life is about emotions, not knowledge. who cares how much you know?
> > > the real question is, how happy are you?
> > Obs can speak for himself, but I'd like to point out that what you
> > call
> > a spiritual experience does not preclude others like atheists from
> > having them. What I mean by that is that is all in the descriptors.
> > I go out of my back door in the mornings, sit on the verandah and
> > marvel at the magnificent view in front of me. It is uplifting. The
> > mountain changes colour every moment, the birds are singing, and
> > some even come in to be fed. The breeze whafts through the
> > plants. If we've had some rain (and oh we could do with some)
> > the smell is absolutely magic. The body and mind are uplifted and
> > peaceful. Some people get these feelings from meditation. Some
> > get these feelings from experience, and some get these
> > experiences from fantasy. The feelings are the same, but the
> > causes are different. From what I understand Obs to be saying, is
> > that he's simply trying to get you and your like minded colleagues
> > to understand that. He just has a different way of expressing
> > himself. There is no need to attack him in the manner you did.
> > > On Nov 7, 12:45 am, Observer <mayors...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > On Nov 6, 5:10 pm, Doris Ragland <dr4...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > spirit upon me- overshadowing - within me--what better wittness than that in
> > > > > knowing it exist- I cannot help you don't have that special gift...not my
> > > > > fault---not my imagination- not in my dreams--
> > > > What crap !
> > > > Doris, you are not of sound mind and do not have the education to
> > > > understand the biochemistry of the god experience( the hallucinations
> > > > which tend to bolster ones psychosis )as to the belief in that for
> > > > which there exists no scientifically verifiable substantiating data
> > > > for either its existence or any act there of.
> > > > The uneducated , the ignorant , have not read and do not understand
> > > > science the criminal misanthrope will not and thereby become the enemy
> > > > of humankind.
> > > > Get an education , Please.
> > > > Psychonomist
> > > > > On Fri, Nov 6, 2009 at 1:03 PM, Neil Kelsey <neil_kel...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > On Nov 6, 12:42 pm, showmethehoney <alenasha...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > unfortunately, some people do not need proof to make factual sounding
> > > > > > > statements
> > > > > > Like you, when you say "spirits exist"?
> > > > > > At least I can support my statements with objective, verifiable, and
> > > > > > falifiable evidence. Apparently, you are so fantastic that you don't
> > > > > > need to bother with piddly details like that.
> > > > > > > On Nov 6, 3:14 pm, DJ <dr4...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > > Do you have proof of this ......
> > > > > > > > On Nov 6, 10:58 am, Neil Kelsey <neil_kel...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > On Nov 6, 10:26 am, Doris Ragland <dr4...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > Ok I wanted to set some guidelines and examples on Faith---before
> > > > > > this gets
> > > > > > > > > > started----
> > > > > > > > > > I want to ask if the Sciencits know how many moutains have been
> > > > > > moved in the
> > > > > > > > > > last centuries???
> > > > > > > > > All of them.
> > > > > > > > > > The count---Jesus said if you have the seed of a mustard
> > > > > > > > > > seed you can move moutains--
> > > > > > > > > The shifting of the Earth's tectonic plates moves mountains.
> > > > > > > > > > Of coarse--It will be stated it is Natural
> > > > > > > > > > law--so did God move some of these moutains?
> > > > > > > > > There's no evidence that he did.
> > > > > > > > > > I will try to stay on these
> > > > > > > > > > guidelines as I go..alot of it will be history-past-some present---
> > > > > > > > > Before you get started, the Bible isn't history, it is mythology.
> > > > > > > > > > I half to
> > > > > > > > > > go --will finish
> > > > > > > > > > > Deuteronomy32-20--And he said I will hide my face from them, I
> > > > > > will see
> > > > > > > > > > > what their
> > > > > > > > > > > end shall be: for they are a very froward generation, children in
> > > > > > whom is
> > > > > > > > > > > no faith.
> > > > > > > > > > > St.Matthew 6-30- Wherefore, if God so clothe the grass of the
> > > > > > field, which
> > > > > > > > > > > today is, and tomorrow is cast into the oven, shall he not much
> > > > > > more clothe
> > > > > > > > > > > you, O ye of little faith?
> > > > > > > > > > > St.Matthew 9-21-22- For she said within herself, if I may but
> > > > > > touch his
> > > > > > > > > > > garment, I shall be made whole: 22-But Jesus turned him about,
> > > > > > and wehen he
> > > > > > > > > > > saw her, he, said Daughter, be of good comfofrt; thy faith hath
> > > > > > made thee
> > > > > > > > > > > whole;
> > > > > > > > > > > St.Matthew21-21- Jesus answered and said to them, Verily I say
> > > > > > unto you, If
> > > > > > > > > > > ye have faith, and doubt not, ye shall not only do this which is
> > > > > > done to the
> > > > > > > > > > > fig tree, but also if ye shall say unto this mountain, Be thou
> > > > > > removed, and
> > > > > > > > > > > be thou cast into the sea; it shall be done---(Science)
> > > > > > > > > > > St.Luke 17-5- And the apostles said unto the Lord, Increase our
> > > > > > faith.
> > > > > > > > > > > Romans: By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for
> > > > > > obedience to
> > > > > > > > > > > the faith among all nations, for his name
> > > > > > > > > > > Romans: 4-5- But to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned
> > > > > > of grace,
> > > > > > > > > > > but of debt--But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him
> > > > > > that
> > > > > > > > > > > justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteouness...
> > > > > > > > > > > Romans: 5-1- Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace
> > > > > > with God
> > > > > > > > > > > through our Lord Jesus Christ.
> > > > > > > > > > > Romans: 10-8- But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in
> > > > > > thy mouth,
> > > > > > > > > > > and in thy heart: that is,the word of faith, which we preach.
> > > > > > > > > > > Romans: 12-3- For I say, through the grace given unto me, to
> > > > > > every man that
> > > > > > > > > > > is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought
> > > > > > to think;
> > > > > > > > > > > but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man
> > > > > > the measure
> > > > > > > > > > > of faith
> > > > > > > > > > > Romans: 14-1--Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not
> > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > > > (doubtful disputations.
> > > > > > > > > > > 1 Corinthians-2- And though I have the gift of prophecy, and
> > > > > > understand all
> > > > > > > > > > > mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, sot
> > > > > > that I could
> > > > > > > > > > > remove mountains, and have not charity, (I am nothing)
> > > > > > > > > > > 1 Corinthians 15-14- And if Christ be not risen, then is our
> > > > > > preaching
> > > > > > > > > > > vain, and your faith is also vain.
> > > > > > > > > > > 2 Corinthians5-7- (For we walk by faith, not by sight;) We are
> > > > > > confident, I
> > > > > > > > > > > say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be
> > > > > > present with
> > > > > > > > > > > the Lord---Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent,
> > > > > > we may be
> > > > > > > > > > > accepted of him...
> > > > > > > > > > > 'Galatians3-7- Therefore they which are of faith or the seed of
> > > > > > Abraham.
> > > > > > > > > > > Galatians5-6- For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth
> > > > > > any thing,
> > > > > > > > > > > nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love
> > > > > > > > > > > Hebrews 10-22-Let us draw near with
No problem with being happy. But I think one does not need to cling to
illusions in order to be happy. If you do, then there is some other
aspect of your life that might benefit from some tinkering.
On Nov 7, 11:42 am, showmethehoney <alenasha...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> unfortunately, no amount of education can lead to the recognition of
> spirit. the way you talk one would think you have a phd in every
> subject on the planet, but yet you are void of spiritual experience. i
> will gladly exchange my experiences for your degrees any day.
> with all your education, you still come across as a very unhappy
> person. you know what they say 'money cant buy you happiness'. the
> same can be said about education. you learn a lot about the physical
> stuff, but have little soul or compassion. imo, the important part of
> life is about emotions, not knowledge. who cares how much you know?
> the real question is, how happy are you?
> On Nov 7, 12:45 am, Observer <mayors...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Nov 6, 5:10 pm, Doris Ragland <dr4...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > spirit upon me- overshadowing - within me--what better wittness than that in
> > > knowing it exist- I cannot help you don't have that special gift...not my
> > > fault---not my imagination- not in my dreams--
> > What crap !
> > Doris, you are not of sound mind and do not have the education to
> > understand the biochemistry of the god experience( the hallucinations
> > which tend to bolster ones psychosis )as to the belief in that for
> > which there exists no scientifically verifiable substantiating data
> > for either its existence or any act there of.
> > The uneducated , the ignorant , have not read and do not understand
> > science the criminal misanthrope will not and thereby become the enemy
> > of humankind.
> > Get an education , Please.
> > Psychonomist
> > > On Fri, Nov 6, 2009 at 1:03 PM, Neil Kelsey <neil_kel...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > > > On Nov 6, 12:42 pm, showmethehoney <alenasha...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> > > > > unfortunately, some people do not need proof to make factual sounding
> > > > > statements
> > > > Like you, when you say "spirits exist"?
> > > > At least I can support my statements with objective, verifiable, and
> > > > falifiable evidence. Apparently, you are so fantastic that you don't
> > > > need to bother with piddly details like that.
> > > > > On Nov 6, 3:14 pm, DJ <dr4...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > Do you have proof of this ......
> > > > > > On Nov 6, 10:58 am, Neil Kelsey <neil_kel...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > On Nov 6, 10:26 am, Doris Ragland <dr4...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > > Ok I wanted to set some guidelines and examples on Faith---before
> > > > this gets
> > > > > > > > started----
> > > > > > > > I want to ask if the Sciencits know how many moutains have been
> > > > moved in the
> > > > > > > > last centuries???
> > > > > > > All of them.
> > > > > > > > The count---Jesus said if you have the seed of a mustard
> > > > > > > > seed you can move moutains--
> > > > > > > The shifting of the Earth's tectonic plates moves mountains.
> > > > > > > > Of coarse--It will be stated it is Natural
> > > > > > > > law--so did God move some of these moutains?
> > > > > > > There's no evidence that he did.
> > > > > > > > I will try to stay on these
> > > > > > > > guidelines as I go..alot of it will be history-past-some present---
> > > > > > > Before you get started, the Bible isn't history, it is mythology.
> > > > > > > > I half to
> > > > > > > > go --will finish
> > > > > > > > > Deuteronomy32-20--And he said I will hide my face from them, I
> > > > will see
> > > > > > > > > what their
> > > > > > > > > end shall be: for they are a very froward generation, children in
> > > > whom is
> > > > > > > > > no faith.
> > > > > > > > > St.Matthew 6-30- Wherefore, if God so clothe the grass of the
> > > > field, which
> > > > > > > > > today is, and tomorrow is cast into the oven, shall he not much
> > > > more clothe
> > > > > > > > > you, O ye of little faith?
> > > > > > > > > St.Matthew 9-21-22- For she said within herself, if I may but
> > > > touch his
> > > > > > > > > garment, I shall be made whole: 22-But Jesus turned him about,
> > > > and wehen he
> > > > > > > > > saw her, he, said Daughter, be of good comfofrt; thy faith hath
> > > > made thee
> > > > > > > > > whole;
> > > > > > > > > St.Matthew21-21- Jesus answered and said to them, Verily I say
> > > > unto you, If
> > > > > > > > > ye have faith, and doubt not, ye shall not only do this which is
> > > > done to the
> > > > > > > > > fig tree, but also if ye shall say unto this mountain, Be thou
> > > > removed, and
> > > > > > > > > be thou cast into the sea; it shall be done---(Science)
> > > > > > > > > St.Luke 17-5- And the apostles said unto the Lord, Increase our
> > > > faith.
> > > > > > > > > Romans: By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for
> > > > obedience to
> > > > > > > > > the faith among all nations, for his name
> > > > > > > > > Romans: 4-5- But to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned
> > > > of grace,
> > > > > > > > > but of debt--But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him
> > > > that
> > > > > > > > > justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteouness...
> > > > > > > > > Romans: 5-1- Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace
> > > > with God
> > > > > > > > > through our Lord Jesus Christ.
> > > > > > > > > Romans: 10-8- But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in
> > > > thy mouth,
> > > > > > > > > and in thy heart: that is,the word of faith, which we preach.
> > > > > > > > > Romans: 12-3- For I say, through the grace given unto me, to
> > > > every man that
> > > > > > > > > is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought
> > > > to think;
> > > > > > > > > but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man
> > > > the measure
> > > > > > > > > of faith
> > > > > > > > > Romans: 14-1--Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not
> > > > to
> > > > > > > > > (doubtful disputations.
> > > > > > > > > 1 Corinthians-2- And though I have the gift of prophecy, and
> > > > understand all
> > > > > > > > > mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, sot
> > > > that I could
> > > > > > > > > remove mountains, and have not charity, (I am nothing)
> > > > > > > > > 1 Corinthians 15-14- And if Christ be not risen, then is our
> > > > preaching
> > > > > > > > > vain, and your faith is also vain.
> > > > > > > > > 2 Corinthians5-7- (For we walk by faith, not by sight;) We are
> > > > confident, I
> > > > > > > > > say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be
> > > > present with
> > > > > > > > > the Lord---Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent,
> > > > we may be
> > > > > > > > > accepted of him...
> > > > > > > > > 'Galatians3-7- Therefore they which are of faith or the seed of
> > > > Abraham.
> > > > > > > > > Galatians5-6- For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth
> > > > any thing,
> > > > > > > > > nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love
> > > > > > > > > Hebrews 10-22-Let us draw near with a true heart in full
> > > > assurance of
> > > > > > > > > faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and
> > > > our bodies
> > > > > > > > > washed with (with pure water)
> > > > > > > > > Hebrews 11-1-Now faith is the (substance of things hoped for, the
> > > > evidence
> > > > > > > > > of things not seen)
> > > > > > > > > On Fri, Nov 6, 2009 at 8:39 AM, Turner Hayes <
> > > > lordlacol...@gmail.com>wrote:
> > > > > > > > >> Yet another person equivocating on the definition of "faith".
> > > > Can't anyone
> > > > > > > > >> offer anything new?
> > > > > > > > >> On Fri, Nov 6, 2009 at 11:36 AM, mdb <michaeldb...@gmail.com>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > >>> Is this a better way to consider the title of our group? It
> > > > seems
> > > > > > > > >>> that the atheist community really is proposing a faith in
> > > > scientific
> > > > > > > > >>> evidence versus the Christian community proposing a faith in
> > > > God.
> > > > > > > > >>> --
> > > > > > > > >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the
> > > > Google Groups
> > > > > > > > >>> "Atheism vs Christianity" group.
> > > > > > > > >>> To post to this group, send email to
> > > > > > > > >>> atheism-vs-christianity@googlegroups.com.
> > > > > > > > >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> > > > > > > > >>> atheism-vs-christianity+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com<atheism-vs-christianit y%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups.com>
> > > > <atheism-vs-christianity%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups.com<y%252Bunsubscri be@googlegroups.com>
showmethehoney: "science is neat but it
isnt emotionally gratifying"
I find this statement slightly surprising, to be honest. Call me a
geek, but I find the pursuit of science quite exciting. Isn't it
amazing that one is trying to find out what makes the universe tick?
Or how we came to be? These are all exciting questions, and only
science is able to get anywhere close to the truth.
On Nov 7, 11:50 am, showmethehoney <alenasha...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> maybe she doesnt care how fast she is moving through space. this may
> not be as important to her as it is to you. science is neat but it
> isnt emotionally gratifying. i guess her 'ghost' gives her happiness.
> why this offends you is something you may want to address.
> On Nov 7, 1:08 am, Neil Kelsey <neil_kel...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > On Nov 6, 6:43 pm, Saint Onan <gigacy...@ozemail.com.au> wrote:
> > > > > > I want to ask if the Sciencits know how many moutains have been moved in the
> > > > > > last centuries???
> > > > > All of them.
> > > On Nov 7, 7:14 am, DJ <dr4...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > Do you have proof of this ......
> > > Every mountain on Earth, apart from those within the polar circles,
> > > has moved at least a thousand miles in the past day. The proof of this
> > > is that the sun came up this morning.
> > Not to mention that the entire planet is hurtling through space at 30
> > km/second.
> > I doubt this will have any effect on Doris though. She's still
> > struggling with the thought that a ghost dwells within her.
On Sat, Nov 7, 2009 at 4:03 PM, Neil Kelsey <neil_kel...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On Nov 7, 12:37 pm, Doris Ragland <dr4...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Neil I have evidence....me
> Testimonials aren't evidence. At least, they aren't valid evidence.
> Why should I on earth should I believe that you have a ghost inside of
> you?
> On Fri, Nov 6, 2009 at 8:40 PM, Neil Kelsey <neil_kel...@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
> > > On Nov 6, 7:07 pm, Doris Ragland <dr4...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > Lets word this right--delusional--not true---communicate with
> supenatural
> > > > beings--I did not say that--would you please read what I say
> right---I
> > > said
> > > > this the Holy Ghost within me--which it does and is not supernatural
> > > > beings----
> > > 1. of, pertaining to, or being above or beyond what is natural;
> > > unexplainable by natural law or phenomena; abnormal.
> > > 2. of, pertaining to, characteristic of, or attributed to God or a
> > > deity.
> > > 3. of a superlative degree; preternatural: a missile of supernatural
> > > speed.
> > > 4. of, pertaining to, or attributed to ghosts, goblins, or other
> > > unearthly beings; eerie; occult.
> > > Notice definition #2.
> > > The "Holy Ghost" is a supernatural being, by definition.
> > > >Now the only way you could prove me wrong is to met me eye to eye
> > > > and be in my presence...
> > > Millions of others have claimed to have this "Holy Spirit" besides
> > > you, and none of them have produced evidence that it's true either.
> > > You can make all the wild claims you want, and I don't have to be in
> > > your presence for you to be wrong.
> > > > so since that is not going to happen you think what
> > > > you want....the proof is here in me....
> > > Do you know what an "unsupported assertion" is?
> > > > and my Father in heaven is my
> > > > wittness...and the spirit bears wittness with one another....
> > > Unsupported assertions are not evidence that God or the Holy Spirit
> > > exist. You need to provide evidence to have any credibility.
> > > > On Fri, Nov 6, 2009 at 6:07 PM, Neil Kelsey <neil_kel...@hotmail.com
> > > wrote:
> > > > > On Nov 6, 5:10 pm, Doris Ragland <dr4...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > spirit upon me- overshadowing - within me--what better wittness
> than
> > > that
> > > > > in
> > > > > > knowing it exist- I cannot help you don't have that special
> > > gift...not my
> > > > > > fault---not my imagination- not in my dreams--
> > > > > I lack belief that you have a "special gift." I think you, like
> > > > > "showmethehoney," are simply delusional if you think you
> communicate
> > > > > with supernatural beings.
> > > > > > On Fri, Nov 6, 2009 at 1:03 PM, Neil Kelsey <
> neil_kel...@hotmail.com
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > On Nov 6, 12:42 pm, showmethehoney <alenasha...@googlemail.com
> > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > unfortunately, some people do not need proof to make factual
> > > sounding
> > > > > > > > statements
> > > > > > > Like you, when you say "spirits exist"?
> > > > > > > At least I can support my statements with objective,
> verifiable,
> > > and
> > > > > > > falifiable evidence. Apparently, you are so fantastic that you
> > > don't
> > > > > > > need to bother with piddly details like that.
> > > > > > > > On Nov 6, 3:14 pm, DJ <dr4...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > Do you have proof of this ......
> > > > > > > > > On Nov 6, 10:58 am, Neil Kelsey <neil_kel...@hotmail.com>
> > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > On Nov 6, 10:26 am, Doris Ragland <dr4...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > Ok I wanted to set some guidelines and examples on
> > > > > Faith---before
> > > > > > > this gets
> > > > > > > > > > > started----
> > > > > > > > > > > I want to ask if the Sciencits know how many moutains
> have
> > > been
> > > > > > > moved in the
> > > > > > > > > > > last centuries???
> > > > > > > > > > All of them.
> > > > > > > > > > > The count---Jesus said if you have the seed of a
> mustard
> > > > > > > > > > > seed you can move moutains--
> > > > > > > > > > The shifting of the Earth's tectonic plates moves
> mountains.
> > > > > > > > > > > Of coarse--It will be stated it is Natural
> > > > > > > > > > > law--so did God move some of these moutains?
> > > > > > > > > > There's no evidence that he did.
> > > > > > > > > > > I will try to stay on these
> > > > > > > > > > > guidelines as I go..alot of it will be
> history-past-some
> > > > > present---
> > > > > > > > > > Before you get started, the Bible isn't history, it is
> > > mythology.
> > > > > > > > > > > I half to
> > > > > > > > > > > go --will finish
> > > > > > > > > > > > Deuteronomy32-20--And he said I will hide my face
> from
> > > them,
> > > > > I
> > > > > > > will see
> > > > > > > > > > > > what their
> > > > > > > > > > > > end shall be: for they are a very froward generation,
> > > > > children in
> > > > > > > whom is
> > > > > > > > > > > > no faith.
> > > > > > > > > > > > St.Matthew 6-30- Wherefore, if God so clothe the
> grass
> > > of
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > field, which
> > > > > > > > > > > > today is, and tomorrow is cast into the oven, shall
> he
> > > not
> > > > > much
> > > > > > > more clothe
> > > > > > > > > > > > you, O ye of little faith?
> > > > > > > > > > > > St.Matthew 9-21-22- For she said within herself, if I
> may
> > > but
> > > > > > > touch his
> > > > > > > > > > > > garment, I shall be made whole: 22-But Jesus turned
> him
> > > > > about,
> > > > > > > and wehen he
> > > > > > > > > > > > saw her, he, said Daughter, be of good comfofrt; thy
> > > faith
> > > > > hath
> > > > > > > made thee
> > > > > > > > > > > > whole;
> > > > > > > > > > > > St.Matthew21-21- Jesus answered and said to them,
> Verily
> > > I
> > > > > say
> > > > > > > unto you, If
> > > > > > > > > > > > ye have faith, and doubt not, ye shall not only do
> this
> > > which
> > > > > is
> > > > > > > done to the
> > > > > > > > > > > > fig tree, but also if ye shall say unto this
> mountain, Be
> > > > > thou
> > > > > > > removed, and
> > > > > > > > > > > > be thou cast into the sea; it shall be
> done---(Science)
> > > > > > > > > > > > St.Luke 17-5- And the apostles said unto the Lord,
> > > Increase
> > > > > our
> > > > > > > faith.
> > > > > > > > > > > > Romans: By whom we have received grace and
> apostleship,
> > > for
> > > > > > > obedience to
> > > > > > > > > > > > the faith among all nations, for his name
> > > > > > > > > > > > Romans: 4-5- But to him that worketh is the reward
> not
> > > > > reckoned
> > > > > > > of grace,
> > > > > > > > > > > > but of debt--But to him that worketh not, but
> believeth
> > > on
> > > > > him
> > > > > > > that
> > > > > > > > > > > > justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for
> > > > > righteouness...
> > > > > > > > > > > > Romans: 5-1- Therefore being justified by faith, we
> have
> > > > > peace
> > > > > > > with God
> > > > > > > > > > > > through our Lord Jesus Christ.
> > > > > > > > > > > > Romans: 10-8- But what saith it? The word is nigh
> thee,
> > > even
> > > > > in
> > > > > > > thy mouth,
> > > > > > > > > > > > and in thy heart: that is,the word of faith, which we
> > > preach.
> > > > > > > > > > > > Romans: 12-3- For I say, through the grace given unto
> me,
> > > to
> > > > > > > every man that
> > > > > > > > > > > > is among you, not to think of himself more highly
> than he
> > > > > ought
> > > > > > > to think;
> > > > > > > > > > > > but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to
> > > every
> > > > > man
> > > > > > > the measure
> > > > > > > > > > > > of faith
> > > > > > > > > > > > Romans: 14-1--Him that is weak in the faith receive
> ye,
> > > but
> > > > > not
> > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > > > > (doubtful disputations.
> > > > > > > > > > > > 1 Corinthians-2- And though I have the gift of
> prophecy,
> > > and
> > > > > > > understand all
> > > > > > > > > > > > mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all
> > > faith,
> > > > > sot
> > > > > > > that I could
> > > > > > > > > > > > remove mountains, and have not charity, (I am
> nothing)
> > > > > > > > > > > > 1 Corinthians 15-14- And if Christ be not risen, then
> is
> > > our
> > > > > > > preaching
> > > > > > > > > > > > vain, and your faith is also vain.
> > > > > > > > > > > > 2 Corinthians5-7- (For we walk by faith, not by
> sight;)
> > > We
> > > > > are
> > > > > > > confident, I
> > > > > > > > > > > > say, and willing rather to be absent from the body,
> and
> > > to be
> > > > > > > present with
> > > > > > > > > > > > the Lord---Wherefore we labour, that, whether present
> or
> > > > > absent,
> > > > > > > we may be
> > > > > > > > > > > > accepted of him...
> > > > > > > > > > > > 'Galatians3-7- Therefore they which are of faith or
> the
> > > seed
> > > > > of
> > > > > > > Abraham.
> > > > > > > > > > > > Galatians5-6- For in Jesus Christ neither
> circumcision
> > > > > availeth
> > > > > > > any thing,
> > > > > > > > > > > > nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love
> > > > > > > > > > > > Hebrews 10-22-Let us draw near with a true heart in
> full
> > > > > > > assurance of
> > > > > > > > > > > > faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil
On Nov 8, 12:33 pm, Doris Ragland <dr4...@gmail.com> wrote:
> It is not the
> Ghost like casper the Ghost....
I see no difference. There's no evidence that either one exists, so
they're both exactly the same from where I sit. And you failed to tell
me why I should believe you.
> On Sat, Nov 7, 2009 at 4:03 PM, Neil Kelsey <neil_kel...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > On Nov 7, 12:37 pm, Doris Ragland <dr4...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > Neil I have evidence....me
> > Testimonials aren't evidence. At least, they aren't valid evidence.
> > Why should I on earth should I believe that you have a ghost inside of
> > you?
> > On Fri, Nov 6, 2009 at 8:40 PM, Neil Kelsey <neil_kel...@hotmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > > > On Nov 6, 7:07 pm, Doris Ragland <dr4...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > Lets word this right--delusional--not true---communicate with
> > supenatural
> > > > > beings--I did not say that--would you please read what I say
> > right---I
> > > > said
> > > > > this the Holy Ghost within me--which it does and is not supernatural
> > > > > beings----
> > > > 1. of, pertaining to, or being above or beyond what is natural;
> > > > unexplainable by natural law or phenomena; abnormal.
> > > > 2. of, pertaining to, characteristic of, or attributed to God or a
> > > > deity.
> > > > 3. of a superlative degree; preternatural: a missile of supernatural
> > > > speed.
> > > > 4. of, pertaining to, or attributed to ghosts, goblins, or other
> > > > unearthly beings; eerie; occult.
> > > > Notice definition #2.
> > > > The "Holy Ghost" is a supernatural being, by definition.
> > > > >Now the only way you could prove me wrong is to met me eye to eye
> > > > > and be in my presence...
> > > > Millions of others have claimed to have this "Holy Spirit" besides
> > > > you, and none of them have produced evidence that it's true either.
> > > > You can make all the wild claims you want, and I don't have to be in
> > > > your presence for you to be wrong.
> > > > > so since that is not going to happen you think what
> > > > > you want....the proof is here in me....
> > > > Do you know what an "unsupported assertion" is?
> > > > > and my Father in heaven is my
> > > > > wittness...and the spirit bears wittness with one another....
> > > > Unsupported assertions are not evidence that God or the Holy Spirit
> > > > exist. You need to provide evidence to have any credibility.
> > > > > On Fri, Nov 6, 2009 at 6:07 PM, Neil Kelsey <neil_kel...@hotmail.com
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > > On Nov 6, 5:10 pm, Doris Ragland <dr4...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > spirit upon me- overshadowing - within me--what better wittness
> > than
> > > > that
> > > > > > in
> > > > > > > knowing it exist- I cannot help you don't have that special
> > > > gift...not my
> > > > > > > fault---not my imagination- not in my dreams--
> > > > > > I lack belief that you have a "special gift." I think you, like
> > > > > > "showmethehoney," are simply delusional if you think you
> > communicate
> > > > > > with supernatural beings.
> > > > > > > On Fri, Nov 6, 2009 at 1:03 PM, Neil Kelsey <
> > neil_kel...@hotmail.com
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > On Nov 6, 12:42 pm, showmethehoney <alenasha...@googlemail.com
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > unfortunately, some people do not need proof to make factual
> > > > sounding
> > > > > > > > > statements
> > > > > > > > Like you, when you say "spirits exist"?
> > > > > > > > At least I can support my statements with objective,
> > verifiable,
> > > > and
> > > > > > > > falifiable evidence. Apparently, you are so fantastic that you
> > > > don't
> > > > > > > > need to bother with piddly details like that.
> > > > > > > > > On Nov 6, 3:14 pm, DJ <dr4...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > Do you have proof of this ......
> > > > > > > > > > On Nov 6, 10:58 am, Neil Kelsey <neil_kel...@hotmail.com>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > Ok I wanted to set some guidelines and examples on
> > > > > > Faith---before
> > > > > > > > this gets
> > > > > > > > > > > > started----
> > > > > > > > > > > > I want to ask if the Sciencits know how many moutains
> > have
> > > > been
> > > > > > > > moved in the
> > > > > > > > > > > > last centuries???
> > > > > > > > > > > All of them.
> > > > > > > > > > > > The count---Jesus said if you have the seed of a
> > mustard
> > > > > > > > > > > > seed you can move moutains--
> > > > > > > > > > > The shifting of the Earth's tectonic plates moves
> > mountains.
> > > > > > > > > > > > Of coarse--It will be stated it is Natural
> > > > > > > > > > > > law--so did God move some of these moutains?
> > > > > > > > > > > There's no evidence that he did.
> > > > > > > > > > > > I will try to stay on these
> > > > > > > > > > > > guidelines as I go..alot of it will be
> > history-past-some
> > > > > > present---
> > > > > > > > > > > Before you get started, the Bible isn't history, it is
> > > > mythology.
> > > > > > > > > > > > I half to
> > > > > > > > > > > > go --will finish
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Romans: By whom we have received grace and
> > apostleship,
> > > > for
> > > > > > > > obedience to
> > > > > > > > > > > > > the faith among all nations, for his name
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Romans: 4-5- But to him that worketh is the reward
> > not
> > > > > > reckoned
> > > > > > > > of grace,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > but of debt--But to him that worketh not, but
> > believeth
> > > > on
> > > > > > him
> > > > > > > > that
> > > > > > > > > > > > > justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for
> > > > > > righteouness...
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Romans: 5-1- Therefore being justified by faith, we
> > have
> > > > > > peace
> > > > > > > > with God
> > > > > > > > > > > > > through our Lord Jesus Christ.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Romans: 10-8- But what saith it? The word is nigh
> > thee,
> > > > even
> > > > > > in
> > > > > > > > thy mouth,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > and in thy heart: that is,the word of faith, which we
> > > > preach.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Romans: 12-3- For I say, through the grace given unto
> > me,
> > > > to
> > > > > > > > every man that
> > > > > > > > > > > > > is among you, not to think of himself more highly
> > than he
> > > > > > ought
> > > > > > > > to think;
> > > > > > > > > > > > > but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to
> > > > every
> > > > > > man
> > > > > > > > the measure
> > > > > > > > > > > > > of faith
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Romans: 14-1--Him that is weak in the faith receive
> > ye,
> > > > but
> > > > > > not
> > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > > > > > (doubtful disputations.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > 1 Corinthians-2- And though I have the gift of
> > prophecy,
> > > > and
> > > > > > > > understand all
> > > > > > > > > > > > > mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all
> > > > faith,
> > > > > > sot
> > > > > > > > that I could
> > > > > > > > > > > > > remove mountains, and have not charity, (I am
> > nothing)
> > > > > > > > > > > > > 1 Corinthians 15-14- And if Christ be not risen, then
> > is
> > > > our
> > > > > > > > preaching
> > > > > > > > > > > > > vain, and your faith is also vain.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > 2 Corinthians5-7- (For we walk by faith, not by
> > sight;)
> > > > We
> > > > > > are
> > > > > > > > confident, I
> > > > > > > > > > > > > say, and willing rather to be absent from the body,
> > and
> > > > to be
> > > > > > > > present with
> > > > > > > > > > > > > the Lord---Wherefore we labour, that, whether present
> > or
> > > > > > absent,
Neil that is a very good question...I could say just take my word for
it---but I know you would not except this...So you could not believe or
know...unless you experince it ---and ask Jesus to come into your
heart...are the spirit over shadow's you..and would know there is something
to it...are thru prayer...that you might recieve it...I must confess I am
not a perfect person but I know this it is true..I am a wittness to this...I
am not trying to convince...but to give...
On Sun, Nov 8, 2009 at 1:14 PM, Neil Kelsey <neil_kel...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On Nov 8, 12:33 pm, Doris Ragland <dr4...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > It is not the
> > Ghost like casper the Ghost....
> I see no difference. There's no evidence that either one exists, so
> they're both exactly the same from where I sit. And you failed to tell
> me why I should believe you.
> > On Sat, Nov 7, 2009 at 4:03 PM, Neil Kelsey <neil_kel...@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
> > > On Nov 7, 12:37 pm, Doris Ragland <dr4...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > Neil I have evidence....me
> > > Testimonials aren't evidence. At least, they aren't valid evidence.
> > > Why should I on earth should I believe that you have a ghost inside of
> > > you?
> > > On Fri, Nov 6, 2009 at 8:40 PM, Neil Kelsey <neil_kel...@hotmail.com>
> > > wrote:
> > > > > On Nov 6, 7:07 pm, Doris Ragland <dr4...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > Lets word this right--delusional--not true---communicate with
> > > supenatural
> > > > > > beings--I did not say that--would you please read what I say
> > > right---I
> > > > > said
> > > > > > this the Holy Ghost within me--which it does and is not
> supernatural
> > > > > > beings----
> > > > > 1. of, pertaining to, or being above or beyond what is natural;
> > > > > unexplainable by natural law or phenomena; abnormal.
> > > > > 2. of, pertaining to, characteristic of, or attributed to God or a
> > > > > deity.
> > > > > 3. of a superlative degree; preternatural: a missile of
> supernatural
> > > > > speed.
> > > > > 4. of, pertaining to, or attributed to ghosts, goblins, or other
> > > > > unearthly beings; eerie; occult.
> > > > > Notice definition #2.
> > > > > The "Holy Ghost" is a supernatural being, by definition.
> > > > > >Now the only way you could prove me wrong is to met me eye to eye
> > > > > > and be in my presence...
> > > > > Millions of others have claimed to have this "Holy Spirit" besides
> > > > > you, and none of them have produced evidence that it's true either.
> > > > > You can make all the wild claims you want, and I don't have to be
> in
> > > > > your presence for you to be wrong.
> > > > > > so since that is not going to happen you think what
> > > > > > you want....the proof is here in me....
> > > > > Do you know what an "unsupported assertion" is?
> > > > > > and my Father in heaven is my
> > > > > > wittness...and the spirit bears wittness with one another....
> > > > > Unsupported assertions are not evidence that God or the Holy Spirit
> > > > > exist. You need to provide evidence to have any credibility.
> > > > > > On Fri, Nov 6, 2009 at 6:07 PM, Neil Kelsey <
> neil_kel...@hotmail.com
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > On Nov 6, 5:10 pm, Doris Ragland <dr4...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > > spirit upon me- overshadowing - within me--what better
> wittness
> > > than
> > > > > that
> > > > > > > in
> > > > > > > > knowing it exist- I cannot help you don't have that special
> > > > > gift...not my
> > > > > > > > fault---not my imagination- not in my dreams--
> > > > > > > I lack belief that you have a "special gift." I think you, like
> > > > > > > "showmethehoney," are simply delusional if you think you
> > > communicate
> > > > > > > with supernatural beings.
> > > > > > > > On Fri, Nov 6, 2009 at 1:03 PM, Neil Kelsey <
> > > neil_kel...@hotmail.com
> > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > On Nov 6, 12:42 pm, showmethehoney <
> alenasha...@googlemail.com
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > unfortunately, some people do not need proof to make
> factual
> > > > > sounding
> > > > > > > > > > statements
> > > > > > > > > Like you, when you say "spirits exist"?
> > > > > > > > > At least I can support my statements with objective,
> > > verifiable,
> > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > falifiable evidence. Apparently, you are so fantastic that
> you
> > > > > don't
> > > > > > > > > need to bother with piddly details like that.
> > > > > > > > > > On Nov 6, 3:14 pm, DJ <dr4...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > Do you have proof of this ......
> > > > > > > > > > > On Nov 6, 10:58 am, Neil Kelsey <
> neil_kel...@hotmail.com>
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Ok I wanted to set some guidelines and examples on
> > > > > > > Faith---before
> > > > > > > > > this gets
> > > > > > > > > > > > > started----
> > > > > > > > > > > > > I want to ask if the Sciencits know how many
> moutains
> > > have
> > > > > been
> > > > > > > > > moved in the
> > > > > > > > > > > > > last centuries???
> > > > > > > > > > > > All of them.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > The count---Jesus said if you have the seed of a
> > > mustard
> > > > > > > > > > > > > seed you can move moutains--
> > > > > > > > > > > > The shifting of the Earth's tectonic plates moves
> > > mountains.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Of coarse--It will be stated it is Natural
> > > > > > > > > > > > > law--so did God move some of these moutains?
> > > > > > > > > > > > There's no evidence that he did.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > I will try to stay on these
> > > > > > > > > > > > > guidelines as I go..alot of it will be
> > > history-past-some
> > > > > > > present---
> > > > > > > > > > > > Before you get started, the Bible isn't history, it
> is
> > > > > mythology.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Romans: By whom we have received grace and
> > > apostleship,
> > > > > for
> > > > > > > > > obedience to
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > the faith among all nations, for his name
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Romans: 4-5- But to him that worketh is the
> reward
> > > not
> > > > > > > reckoned
> > > > > > > > > of grace,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > but of debt--But to him that worketh not, but
> > > believeth
> > > > > on
> > > > > > > him
> > > > > > > > > that
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for
> > > > > > > righteouness...
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Romans: 5-1- Therefore being justified by faith,
> we
> > > have
> > > > > > > peace
> > > > > > > > > with God
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > through our Lord Jesus Christ.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Romans: 10-8- But what saith it? The word is
> nigh
> > > thee,
> > > > > even
> > > > > > > in
> > > > > > > > > thy mouth,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > and in thy heart: that is,the word of faith,
> which we
> > > > > preach.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Romans: 12-3- For I say, through the grace given
> unto
> > > me,
> > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > every man that
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > is among you, not to think of himself more highly
> > > than he
> > > > > > > ought
> > > > > > > > > to think;
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt
> to
> > > > > every
> > > > > > > man
> > > > > > > > > the measure
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > of faith
On Nov 8, 1:26 pm, Doris Ragland <dr4...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Neil that is a very good question...I could say just take my word for
> it---but I know you would not except this...So you could not believe or
> know...unless you experince it ---and ask Jesus to come into your
> heart...
I did, nothing happened.
> are the spirit over shadow's you..and would know there is something
> to it...are thru prayer...
I prayed, nothing happened.
> that you might recieve it...I must confess I am
> not a perfect person but I know this it is true..I am a wittness to this...
Testimonials are not valid evidence that you have a ghost inside of
you.
> I am not trying to convince...
Why do Christians keep arguing, and say they aren't arguing? Why do
they keep trying to convince, and say they aren't trying to convince?
Look, I don't mind if you're trying to convince me, just be honest
about it.
> but to give...
I disagree that "giving" equals "convincing." I will continue to think
you are delusional.
> On Sun, Nov 8, 2009 at 1:14 PM, Neil Kelsey <neil_kel...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > On Nov 8, 12:33 pm, Doris Ragland <dr4...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > It is not the
> > > Ghost like casper the Ghost....
> > I see no difference. There's no evidence that either one exists, so
> > they're both exactly the same from where I sit. And you failed to tell
> > me why I should believe you.
> > > On Sat, Nov 7, 2009 at 4:03 PM, Neil Kelsey <neil_kel...@hotmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > > > On Nov 7, 12:37 pm, Doris Ragland <dr4...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > Neil I have evidence....me
> > > > Testimonials aren't evidence. At least, they aren't valid evidence.
> > > > Why should I on earth should I believe that you have a ghost inside of
> > > > you?
> > > > On Fri, Nov 6, 2009 at 8:40 PM, Neil Kelsey <neil_kel...@hotmail.com>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > > On Nov 6, 7:07 pm, Doris Ragland <dr4...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > Lets word this right--delusional--not true---communicate with
> > > > supenatural
> > > > > > > beings--I did not say that--would you please read what I say
> > > > right---I
> > > > > > said
> > > > > > > this the Holy Ghost within me--which it does and is not
> > supernatural
> > > > > > > beings----
> > > > > > 1. of, pertaining to, or being above or beyond what is natural;
> > > > > > unexplainable by natural law or phenomena; abnormal.
> > > > > > 2. of, pertaining to, characteristic of, or attributed to God or a
> > > > > > deity.
> > > > > > 3. of a superlative degree; preternatural: a missile of
> > supernatural
> > > > > > speed.
> > > > > > 4. of, pertaining to, or attributed to ghosts, goblins, or other
> > > > > > unearthly beings; eerie; occult.
> > > > > > Notice definition #2.
> > > > > > The "Holy Ghost" is a supernatural being, by definition.
> > > > > > >Now the only way you could prove me wrong is to met me eye to eye
> > > > > > > and be in my presence...
> > > > > > Millions of others have claimed to have this "Holy Spirit" besides
> > > > > > you, and none of them have produced evidence that it's true either.
> > > > > > You can make all the wild claims you want, and I don't have to be
> > in
> > > > > > your presence for you to be wrong.
> > > > > > > so since that is not going to happen you think what
> > > > > > > you want....the proof is here in me....
> > > > > > Do you know what an "unsupported assertion" is?
> > > > > > > and my Father in heaven is my
> > > > > > > wittness...and the spirit bears wittness with one another....
> > > > > > Unsupported assertions are not evidence that God or the Holy Spirit
> > > > > > exist. You need to provide evidence to have any credibility.
> > > > > > > On Fri, Nov 6, 2009 at 6:07 PM, Neil Kelsey <
> > neil_kel...@hotmail.com
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > On Nov 6, 5:10 pm, Doris Ragland <dr4...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > spirit upon me- overshadowing - within me--what better
> > wittness
> > > > than
> > > > > > that
> > > > > > > > in
> > > > > > > > > knowing it exist- I cannot help you don't have that special
> > > > > > gift...not my
> > > > > > > > > fault---not my imagination- not in my dreams--
> > > > > > > > I lack belief that you have a "special gift." I think you, like
> > > > > > > > "showmethehoney," are simply delusional if you think you
> > > > communicate
> > > > > > > > with supernatural beings.
> > > > > > > > > On Fri, Nov 6, 2009 at 1:03 PM, Neil Kelsey <
> > > > neil_kel...@hotmail.com
> > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > On Nov 6, 12:42 pm, showmethehoney <
> > alenasha...@googlemail.com
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > unfortunately, some people do not need proof to make
> > factual
> > > > > > sounding
> > > > > > > > > > > statements
> > > > > > > > > > Like you, when you say "spirits exist"?
> > > > > > > > > > At least I can support my statements with objective,
> > > > verifiable,
> > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > > falifiable evidence. Apparently, you are so fantastic that
> > you
> > > > > > don't
> > > > > > > > > > need to bother with piddly details like that.
> > > > > > > > > > > On Nov 6, 3:14 pm, DJ <dr4...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > Do you have proof of this ......
> > > > > > > > > > > > On Nov 6, 10:58 am, Neil Kelsey <
> > neil_kel...@hotmail.com>
> > > > > > wrote:
On Sun, Nov 8, 2009 at 1:46 PM, Neil Kelsey <neil_kel...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On Nov 8, 1:26 pm, Doris Ragland <dr4...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Neil that is a very good question...I could say just take my word for
> > it---but I know you would not except this...So you could not believe or
> > know...unless you experince it ---and ask Jesus to come into your
> > heart...
> I did, nothing happened.
> > are the spirit over shadow's you..and would know there is something
> > to it...are thru prayer...
> I prayed, nothing happened.
> > that you might recieve it...I must confess I am
> > not a perfect person but I know this it is true..I am a wittness to
> this...
> Testimonials are not valid evidence that you have a ghost inside of
> you.
> > I am not trying to convince...
> Why do Christians keep arguing, and say they aren't arguing? Why do
> they keep trying to convince, and say they aren't trying to convince?
> Look, I don't mind if you're trying to convince me, just be honest
> about it.
> > but to give...
> I disagree that "giving" equals "convincing." I will continue to think
> you are delusional.
> > On Sun, Nov 8, 2009 at 1:14 PM, Neil Kelsey <neil_kel...@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
> > > On Nov 8, 12:33 pm, Doris Ragland <dr4...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > It is not the
> > > > Ghost like casper the Ghost....
> > > I see no difference. There's no evidence that either one exists, so
> > > they're both exactly the same from where I sit. And you failed to tell
> > > me why I should believe you.
> > > > On Sat, Nov 7, 2009 at 4:03 PM, Neil Kelsey <neil_kel...@hotmail.com
> > > wrote:
> > > > > On Nov 7, 12:37 pm, Doris Ragland <dr4...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > Neil I have evidence....me
> > > > > Testimonials aren't evidence. At least, they aren't valid evidence.
> > > > > Why should I on earth should I believe that you have a ghost inside
> of
> > > > > you?
> > > > > On Fri, Nov 6, 2009 at 8:40 PM, Neil Kelsey <
> neil_kel...@hotmail.com>
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > On Nov 6, 7:07 pm, Doris Ragland <dr4...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > > Lets word this right--delusional--not true---communicate with
> > > > > supenatural
> > > > > > > > beings--I did not say that--would you please read what I say
> > > > > right---I
> > > > > > > said
> > > > > > > > this the Holy Ghost within me--which it does and is not
> > > supernatural
> > > > > > > > beings----
> > > > > > > 1. of, pertaining to, or being above or beyond what is natural;
> > > > > > > unexplainable by natural law or phenomena; abnormal.
> > > > > > > 2. of, pertaining to, characteristic of, or attributed to God
> or a
> > > > > > > deity.
> > > > > > > 3. of a superlative degree; preternatural: a missile of
> > > supernatural
> > > > > > > speed.
> > > > > > > 4. of, pertaining to, or attributed to ghosts, goblins, or
> other
> > > > > > > unearthly beings; eerie; occult.
> > > > > > > Notice definition #2.
> > > > > > > The "Holy Ghost" is a supernatural being, by definition.
> > > > > > > >Now the only way you could prove me wrong is to met me eye to
> eye
> > > > > > > > and be in my presence...
> > > > > > > Millions of others have claimed to have this "Holy Spirit"
> besides
> > > > > > > you, and none of them have produced evidence that it's true
> either.
> > > > > > > You can make all the wild claims you want, and I don't have to
> be
> > > in
> > > > > > > your presence for you to be wrong.
> > > > > > > > so since that is not going to happen you think what
> > > > > > > > you want....the proof is here in me....
> > > > > > > Do you know what an "unsupported assertion" is?
> > > > > > > > and my Father in heaven is my
> > > > > > > > wittness...and the spirit bears wittness with one another....
> > > > > > > Unsupported assertions are not evidence that God or the Holy
> Spirit
> > > > > > > exist. You need to provide evidence to have any credibility.
> > > > > > > > On Fri, Nov 6, 2009 at 6:07 PM, Neil Kelsey <
> > > neil_kel...@hotmail.com
> > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > On Nov 6, 5:10 pm, Doris Ragland <dr4...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > spirit upon me- overshadowing - within me--what better
> > > wittness
> > > > > than
> > > > > > > that
> > > > > > > > > in
> > > > > > > > > > knowing it exist- I cannot help you don't have that
> special
> > > > > > > gift...not my
> > > > > > > > > > fault---not my imagination- not in my dreams--
> > > > > > > > > I lack belief that you have a "special gift." I think you,
> like
> > > > > > > > > "showmethehoney," are simply delusional if you think you
> > > > > communicate
> > > > > > > > > with supernatural beings.
> > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Nov 6, 2009 at 1:03 PM, Neil Kelsey <
> > > > > neil_kel...@hotmail.com
> > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > unfortunately, some people do not need proof to make
> > > factual
> > > > > > > sounding
> > > > > > > > > > > > statements
> > > > > > > > > > > Like you, when you say "spirits exist"?
> > > > > > > > > > > At least I can support my statements with objective,
> > > > > verifiable,
> > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > > > falifiable evidence. Apparently, you are so fantastic
> that
> > > you
> > > > > > > don't
> > > > > > > > > > > need to bother with piddly details like that.
> > > > > > > > > > > > On Nov 6, 3:14 pm, DJ <dr4...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Do you have proof of this ......
> On Sun, Nov 8, 2009 at 1:46 PM, Neil Kelsey <neil_kel...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > On Nov 8, 1:26 pm, Doris Ragland <dr4...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > Neil that is a very good question...I could say just take my word for
> > > it---but I know you would not except this...So you could not believe or
> > > know...unless you experince it ---and ask Jesus to come into your
> > > heart...
> > I did, nothing happened.
> > > are the spirit over shadow's you..and would know there is something
> > > to it...are thru prayer...
> > I prayed, nothing happened.
> > > that you might recieve it...I must confess I am
> > > not a perfect person but I know this it is true..I am a wittness to
> > this...
> > Testimonials are not valid evidence that you have a ghost inside of
> > you.
> > > I am not trying to convince...
> > Why do Christians keep arguing, and say they aren't arguing? Why do
> > they keep trying to convince, and say they aren't trying to convince?
> > Look, I don't mind if you're trying to convince me, just be honest
> > about it.
> > > but to give...
> > I disagree that "giving" equals "convincing." I will continue to think
> > you are delusional.
> > > On Sun, Nov 8, 2009 at 1:14 PM, Neil Kelsey <neil_kel...@hotmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > > > On Nov 8, 12:33 pm, Doris Ragland <dr4...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > It is not the
> > > > > Ghost like casper the Ghost....
> > > > I see no difference. There's no evidence that either one exists, so
> > > > they're both exactly the same from where I sit. And you failed to tell
> > > > me why I should believe you.
> > > > > On Sat, Nov 7, 2009 at 4:03 PM, Neil Kelsey <neil_kel...@hotmail.com
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > > On Nov 7, 12:37 pm, Doris Ragland <dr4...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > Neil I have evidence....me
> > > > > > Testimonials aren't evidence. At least, they aren't valid evidence.
> > > > > > Why should I on earth should I believe that you have a ghost inside
> > of
> > > > > > you?
> > > > > > On Fri, Nov 6, 2009 at 8:40 PM, Neil Kelsey <
> > neil_kel...@hotmail.com>
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > On Nov 6, 7:07 pm, Doris Ragland <dr4...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > Lets word this right--delusional--not true---communicate with
> > > > > > supenatural
> > > > > > > > > beings--I did not say that--would you please read what I say
> > > > > > right---I
> > > > > > > > said
> > > > > > > > > this the Holy Ghost within me--which it does and is not
> > > > supernatural
> > > > > > > > > beings----
> > > > > > > > 1. of, pertaining to, or being above or beyond what is natural;
> > > > > > > > unexplainable by natural law or phenomena; abnormal.
> > > > > > > > 2. of, pertaining to, characteristic of, or attributed to God
> > or a
> > > > > > > > deity.
> > > > > > > > 3. of a superlative degree; preternatural: a missile of
> > > > supernatural
> > > > > > > > speed.
> > > > > > > > 4. of, pertaining to, or attributed to ghosts, goblins, or
> > other
> > > > > > > > unearthly beings; eerie; occult.
> > > > > > > > Notice definition #2.
> > > > > > > > The "Holy Ghost" is a supernatural being, by definition.
> > > > > > > > >Now the only way you could prove me wrong is to met me eye to
> > eye
> > > > > > > > > and be in my presence...
> > > > > > > > Millions of others have claimed to have this "Holy Spirit"
> > besides
> > > > > > > > you, and none of them have produced evidence that it's true
> > either.
> > > > > > > > You can make all the wild claims you want, and I don't have to
> > be
> > > > in
> > > > > > > > your presence for you to be wrong.
> > > > > > > > > so since that is not going to happen you think what
> > > > > > > > > you want....the proof is here in me....
> > > > > > > > Do you know what an "unsupported assertion" is?
> > > > > > > > > and my Father in heaven is my
> > > > > > > > > wittness...and the spirit bears wittness with one another....
> > > > > > > > Unsupported assertions are not evidence that God or the Holy
> > Spirit
> > > > > > > > exist. You need to provide evidence to have any credibility.
> > > > > > > > > On Fri, Nov 6, 2009 at 6:07 PM, Neil Kelsey <
> > > > neil_kel...@hotmail.com
> > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > On Nov 6, 5:10 pm, Doris Ragland <dr4...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > spirit upon me- overshadowing - within me--what better
> > > > wittness
> > > > > > than
> > > > > > > > that
> > > > > > > > > > in
> > > > > > > > > > > knowing it exist- I cannot help you don't have that
> > special
> > > > > > > > gift...not my
> > > > > > > > > > > fault---not my imagination- not in my dreams--
> > > > > > > > > > I lack belief that you have a "special gift." I think you,
> > like
> > > > > > > > > > "showmethehoney," are simply delusional if you think you
> > > > > > communicate
> > > > > > > > > > with supernatural beings.
> > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Nov 6, 2009 at 1:03 PM, Neil Kelsey <
> > > > > > neil_kel...@hotmail.com
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ok I wanted to set some guidelines and examples
> > on
> > > > > > > > > > Faith---before
> > > > > > > > > > > > this gets
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > started----
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I want to ask if the Sciencits know how many
> > > > moutains
> > > > > > have
> > > > > > > > been
> > > > > > > > > > > > moved in the
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > last centuries???
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > All of them.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The count---Jesus said if you have the seed of
> > a
> > > > > > mustard
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > seed you can move moutains--
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The shifting of the Earth's tectonic plates moves
> > > > > > mountains.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Of coarse--It will be stated it is Natural
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > law--so did God move some of these moutains?
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There's no evidence that he did.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I will try to stay on these
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > guidelines as I go..alot of it will be
> > > > > > history-past-some
> > > > > > > > > > present---
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Before you get started, the Bible isn't history,
> > it
> > > > is
> > > > > > > > mythology.
On Nov 7, 3:42 am, showmethehoney <alenasha...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> unfortunately, no amount of education can lead to the recognition of
> spirit.
Precisely true , because there is no scientifically verifiable
substantiating data for the existence of spirit.
The English word "spirit" has many differing meanings and
connotations, but commonly refers to a supernatural being or essence —
transcendent and therefore metaphysical in its nature: the Concise
Oxford Dictionary defines it as "the non-physical part of a person".
the way you talk one would think you have a phd in every
> subject on the planet, but yet you are void of spiritual experience. i
> will gladly exchange my experiences for your degrees any day.
Observer
One needs very little education to make your lack there of obvious.
You are a pitiful undereducated, misanthropic and quite stupid
person. .
Your experiences are puny by comparison or those I have experienced
over the past 73 + years.My life has been blessed by having in it a
collection of some truly brilliant and extremely well educated people.
Your ignorance is all the worse because it is self chosen and is one
of the reasons I use the word misanthropic when referring to you. The
greatest evil that can befall mankind is ignorance and you cling to it
in desperation. Educate your self and set your poor mind free!
> with all your education, you still come across as a very unhappy
Observer
Hardly ! You interpret resolve to the dedicated task of my life for
unhappiness then you may be beyond rescue from the snake pit of
ignorance,
> person. you know what they say 'money cant buy you happiness'.
Iv'e been rich and Ive been poor I like rich much better.
the
> same can be said about education.
Observer
No one but a bafoon could string together such nonsense .
you learn a lot about the physical
> stuff,
Please provide scientifically verifiable substantiating data that
other than the physical universe exists.
You are indeed a stupid fuck !
but have little soul or compassion.
Observer
I nave no soul but great compassion for a very sick world which
infected with the hideous meme of religion. You see my stupid friend
soul does not exist and you can not make such into a reality
regardless of your powerful stupidity and your ignorance.
imo, the important part of
> life is about emotions,
Observer
Emotion is the sensory perception of the release of peptides and
endogenous opiates into the biological system. You fail to know this
because you are too stupid to read about human neurology.
I have learned to control such and induce the powerful feelings which
you will never know because you are to lazy to learn and too stupid
to care.
not knowledge. who cares how much you know?
Certainly one as bereft of intelligence as are you could never
appreciate the value of lesser over greater ignorance.
> the real question is, how happy are you?
My life style , though I am dying of heart disease , provides me with
a great deal of happiness and personal satisfaction.
I am thrilled each and every day that I can contribute to creating
doubt in the mind of a true believer so that s/he may eventually
abandon the psychosis of religion/spiritualism/superstition and
replace such with the joy of actual learning through the application
of scientific method to well asked questions and previously acquired
knowledge for the purpose of advancing from greater to lesser
ignorance.
Too bad you are too stupid to enjoy the trip it is a real thrill.
> On Nov 7, 12:45 am, Observer <mayors...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Nov 6, 5:10 pm, Doris Ragland <dr4...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > spirit upon me- overshadowing - within me--what better wittness than that in
> > > knowing it exist- I cannot help you don't have that special gift...not my
> > > fault---not my imagination- not in my dreams--
> > What crap !
> > Doris, you are not of sound mind and do not have the education to
> > understand the biochemistry of the god experience( the hallucinations
> > which tend to bolster ones psychosis )as to the belief in that for
> > which there exists no scientifically verifiable substantiating data
> > for either its existence or any act there of.
> > The uneducated , the ignorant , have not read and do not understand
> > science the criminal misanthrope will not and thereby become the enemy
> > of humankind.
> > Get an education , Please.
> > Psychonomist
> > > On Fri, Nov 6, 2009 at 1:03 PM, Neil Kelsey <neil_kel...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > > > On Nov 6, 12:42 pm, showmethehoney <alenasha...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> > > > > unfortunately, some people do not need proof to make factual sounding
> > > > > statements
> > > > Like you, when you say "spirits exist"?
> > > > At least I can support my statements with objective, verifiable, and
> > > > falifiable evidence. Apparently, you are so fantastic that you don't
> > > > need to bother with piddly details like that.
> > > > > On Nov 6, 3:14 pm, DJ <dr4...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > Do you have proof of this ......
> > > > > > On Nov 6, 10:58 am, Neil Kelsey <neil_kel...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > On Nov 6, 10:26 am, Doris Ragland <dr4...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > > Ok I wanted to set some guidelines and examples on Faith---before
> > > > this gets
> > > > > > > > started----
> > > > > > > > I want to ask if the Sciencits know how many moutains have been
> > > > moved in the
> > > > > > > > last centuries???
> > > > > > > All of them.
> > > > > > > > The count---Jesus said if you have the seed of a mustard
> > > > > > > > seed you can move moutains--
> > > > > > > The shifting of the Earth's tectonic plates moves mountains.
> > > > > > > > Of coarse--It will be stated it is Natural
> > > > > > > > law--so did God move some of these moutains?
> > > > > > > There's no evidence that he did.
> > > > > > > > I will try to stay on these
> > > > > > > > guidelines as I go..alot of it will be history-past-some present---
> > > > > > > Before you get started, the Bible isn't history, it is mythology.
> > > > > > > > I half to
> > > > > > > > go --will finish
> > > > > > > > > Deuteronomy32-20--And he said I will hide my face from them, I
> > > > will see
> > > > > > > > > what their
> > > > > > > > > end shall be: for they are a very froward generation, children in
> > > > whom is
> > > > > > > > > no faith.
> > > > > > > > > St.Matthew 6-30- Wherefore, if God so clothe the grass of the
> > > > field, which
> > > > > > > > > today is, and tomorrow is cast into the oven, shall he not much
> > > > more clothe
> > > > > > > > > you, O ye of little faith?
> > > > > > > > > St.Matthew 9-21-22- For she said within herself, if I may but
> > > > touch his
> > > > > > > > > garment, I shall be made whole: 22-But Jesus turned him about,
> > > > and wehen he
> > > > > > > > > saw her, he, said Daughter, be of good comfofrt; thy faith hath
> > > > made thee
> > > > > > > > > whole;
> > > > > > > > > St.Matthew21-21- Jesus answered and said to them, Verily I say
> > > > unto you, If
> > > > > > > > > ye have faith, and doubt not, ye shall not only do this which is
> > > > done to the
> > > > > > > > > fig tree, but also if ye shall say unto this mountain, Be thou
> > > > removed, and
> > > > > > > > > be thou cast into the sea; it shall be done---(Science)
> > > > > > > > > St.Luke 17-5- And the apostles said unto the Lord, Increase our
> > > > faith.
> > > > > > > > > Romans: By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for
> > > > obedience to
> > > > > > > > > the faith among all nations, for his name
> > > > > > > > > Romans: 4-5- But to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned
> > > > of grace,
> > > > > > > > > but of debt--But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him
> > > > that
> > > > > > > > > justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteouness...
> > > > > > > > > Romans: 5-1- Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace
> > > > with God
> > > > > > > > > through our Lord Jesus Christ.
> > > > > > > > > Romans: 10-8- But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in
> > > > thy mouth,
> > > > > > > > > and in thy heart: that is,the word of faith, which we preach.
> > > > > > > > > Romans: 12-3- For I say, through the grace given unto me, to
> > > > every man that
> > > > > > > > > is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought
> > > > to think;
> > > > > > > > > but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man
> > > > the measure
> > > > > > > > > of faith
> > > > > > > > > Romans: 14-1--Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not
> > > > to
> > > > > > > > > (doubtful disputations.
> > > > > > > > > 1 Corinthians-2- And though I have the gift of prophecy, and
> > > > understand all
> > > > > > > > > mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, sot
> > > > that I could
> > > > > > > > > remove mountains, and have not charity, (I am nothing)
> > > > > > > > > 1 Corinthians 15-14- And if Christ be not risen, then is our
> > > > preaching
> > > > > > > > > vain, and your faith is also vain.
> > > > > > > > > 2 Corinthians5-7- (For we walk by faith, not by sight;) We are
> > > > confident, I
> > > > > > > > > say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be
> > > > present with
> > > > > > > > > the Lord---Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent,
> > > > we may be
> > > > > > > > > accepted of him...
> On Nov 7, 9:42 pm, showmethehoney <alenasha...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> > unfortunately, no amount of education can lead to the recognition of
> > spirit. the way you talk one would think you have a phd in every
> > subject on the planet, but yet you are void of spiritual experience. i
> > will gladly exchange my experiences for your degrees any day.
> > with all your education, you still come across as a very unhappy
> > person. you know what they say 'money cant buy you happiness'. the
> > same can be said about education. you learn a lot about the physical
> > stuff, but have little soul or compassion. imo, the important part of
> > life is about emotions, not knowledge. who cares how much you know?
> > the real question is, how happy are you?
> Obs can speak for himself, but I'd like to point out that what you
> call
> a spiritual experience does not preclude others like atheists from
> having them. What I mean by that is that is all in the descriptors.
> I go out of my back door in the mornings, sit on the verandah and
> marvel at the magnificent view in front of me. It is uplifting. The
> mountain changes colour every moment, the birds are singing, and
> some even come in to be fed. The breeze whafts through the
> plants. If we've had some rain (and oh we could do with some)
> the smell is absolutely magic. The body and mind are uplifted and
> peaceful. Some people get these feelings from meditation. Some
> get these feelings from experience, and some get these
> experiences from fantasy. The feelings are the same, but the
> causes are different. From what I understand Obs to be saying, is
> that he's simply trying to get you and your like minded colleagues
> to understand that. He just has a different way of expressing
> himself. There is no need to attack him in the manner you did.
Thank you m'lady of the beautiful mind . I appreciate that.
> > On Nov 7, 12:45 am, Observer <mayors...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > On Nov 6, 5:10 pm, Doris Ragland <dr4...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > spirit upon me- overshadowing - within me--what better wittness than that in
> > > > knowing it exist- I cannot help you don't have that special gift...not my
> > > > fault---not my imagination- not in my dreams--
> > > What crap !
> > > Doris, you are not of sound mind and do not have the education to
> > > understand the biochemistry of the god experience( the hallucinations
> > > which tend to bolster ones psychosis )as to the belief in that for
> > > which there exists no scientifically verifiable substantiating data
> > > for either its existence or any act there of.
> > > The uneducated , the ignorant , have not read and do not understand
> > > science the criminal misanthrope will not and thereby become the enemy
> > > of humankind.
> > > Get an education , Please.
> > > Psychonomist
> > > > On Fri, Nov 6, 2009 at 1:03 PM, Neil Kelsey <neil_kel...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > On Nov 6, 12:42 pm, showmethehoney <alenasha...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > unfortunately, some people do not need proof to make factual sounding
> > > > > > statements
> > > > > Like you, when you say "spirits exist"?
> > > > > At least I can support my statements with objective, verifiable, and
> > > > > falifiable evidence. Apparently, you are so fantastic that you don't
> > > > > need to bother with piddly details like that.
> > > > > > On Nov 6, 3:14 pm, DJ <dr4...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > Do you have proof of this ......
> > > > > > > On Nov 6, 10:58 am, Neil Kelsey <neil_kel...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > > On Nov 6, 10:26 am, Doris Ragland <dr4...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > Ok I wanted to set some guidelines and examples on Faith---before
> > > > > this gets
> > > > > > > > > started----
> > > > > > > > > I want to ask if the Sciencits know how many moutains have been
> > > > > moved in the
> > > > > > > > > last centuries???
> > > > > > > > All of them.
> > > > > > > > > The count---Jesus said if you have the seed of a mustard
> > > > > > > > > seed you can move moutains--
> > > > > > > > The shifting of the Earth's tectonic plates moves mountains.
> > > > > > > > > Of coarse--It will be stated it is Natural
> > > > > > > > > law--so did God move some of these moutains?
> > > > > > > > There's no evidence that he did.
> > > > > > > > > I will try to stay on these
> > > > > > > > > guidelines as I go..alot of it will be history-past-some present---
> > > > > > > > Before you get started, the Bible isn't history, it is mythology.
> > > > > > > > > I half to
> > > > > > > > > go --will finish
> > > > > > > > > > Deuteronomy32-20--And he said I will hide my face from them, I
> > > > > will see
> > > > > > > > > > what their
> > > > > > > > > > end shall be: for they are a very froward generation, children in
> > > > > whom is
> > > > > > > > > > no faith.
> > > > > > > > > > St.Matthew 6-30- Wherefore, if God so clothe the grass of the
> > > > > field, which
> > > > > > > > > > today is, and tomorrow is cast into the oven, shall he not much
> > > > > more clothe
> > > > > > > > > > you, O ye of little faith?
> > > > > > > > > > St.Matthew 9-21-22- For she said within herself, if I may but
> > > > > touch his
> > > > > > > > > > garment, I shall be made whole: 22-But Jesus turned him about,
> > > > > and wehen he
> > > > > > > > > > saw her, he, said Daughter, be of good comfofrt; thy faith hath
> > > > > made thee
> > > > > > > > > > whole;
> > > > > > > > > > St.Matthew21-21- Jesus answered and said to them, Verily I say
> > > > > unto you, If
> > > > > > > > > > ye have faith, and doubt not, ye shall not only do this which is
> > > > > done to the
> > > > > > > > > > fig tree, but also if ye shall say unto this mountain, Be thou
> > > > > removed, and
> > > > > > > > > > be thou cast into the sea; it shall be done---(Science)
> > > > > > > > > > St.Luke 17-5- And the apostles said unto the Lord, Increase our
> > > > > faith.
> > > > > > > > > > Romans: By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for
> > > > > obedience to
> > > > > > > > > > the faith among all nations, for his name
> > > > > > > > > > Romans: 4-5- But to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned
> > > > > of grace,
> > > > > > > > > > but of debt--But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him
> > > > > that
> > > > > > > > > > justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteouness...
> > > > > > > > > > Romans: 5-1- Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace
> > > > > with God
> > > > > > > > > > through our Lord Jesus Christ.
> > > > > > > > > > Romans: 10-8- But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in
> > > > > thy mouth,
> > > > > > > > > > and in thy heart: that is,the word of faith, which we preach.
> > > > > > > > > > Romans: 12-3- For I say, through the grace given unto me, to
> > > > > every man that
> > > > > > > > > > is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought
> > > > > to think;
> > > > > > > > > > but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man
> > > > > the measure
> > > > > > > > > > of faith
> > > > > > > > > > Romans: 14-1--Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not
> > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > > (doubtful disputations.
> > > > > > > > > > 1 Corinthians-2- And though I have the gift of prophecy, and
> > > > > understand all
> > > > > > > > > > mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, sot
> > > > > that I could
> > > > > > > > > > remove mountains, and have not charity, (I am nothing)
> > > > > > > > > > 1 Corinthians 15-14- And if Christ be not risen, then is our
> > > > > preaching
> > > > > > > > > > vain, and your faith is also vain.
> > > > > > > > > > 2 Corinthians5-7- (For we walk by faith, not by sight;) We are
> > > > > confident, I
> > > > > > > > > > say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be
> > > > > present with
> > > > > > > > > > the Lord---Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent,
> > > > > we may be
> > > > > > > > > > accepted of him...
> > > > > > > > > > 'Galatians3-7- Therefore they which are of faith or the seed of
> > > > > Abraham.
> > > > > > > > > > Galatians5-6- For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth
> > > > > any thing,
> > > > > > > > > > nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love
> > > > > > > > > > Hebrews 10-22-Let us draw near with a true heart in full
> > > > > assurance of
> > > > > > > > > > faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and
> > > > > our bodies
> > > > > > > > > > washed with (with pure water)
> > > > > > > > > > Hebrews 11-1-Now faith is the (substance of things hoped for, the
> > > > > evidence
> > > > > > > > > > of things not seen)
> > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Nov 6, 2009 at 8:39 AM, Turner Hayes <
> > > > > lordlacol...@gmail.com>wrote:
> > > > > > > > > >> Yet another person equivocating on the definition of "faith".
> > > > > Can't anyone
> > > > > > > > > >> offer anything new?
> > > > > > > > > >> On Fri, Nov 6, 2009 at 11:36 AM, mdb <michaeldb...@gmail.com>
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > >>> Is this a better way to consider the title of our group? It
> > > > > seems
> > > > > > > > > >>> that the atheist community really is proposing a faith in
> > > > > scientific
> > > > > > > > > >>> evidence versus the Christian community proposing a faith in
> > > > > God.
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