> No, I believe in faith informed by facts. Taking your example, you
> load a gun and have faith that when you pull the trigger, something
> will happen. This faith is informed by previous experience and by
> knowledge of the workings of a gun. To trust that the gun will not go
> off when you pull the trigger is to be ignorant of the facts. It is of
> course an unreasonable faith to hold. My faith is *not* an
> unreasonable faith for it is based firmly on evidence.
> On Nov 4, 1:40 pm, Diana Wilson <dwilso...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > SO YOU BELIEVE IN FAITH OVER FACTS?
> > ALRIGHTY THEN....GO LOAD A GUN...AND SHOOT YOURSELF IN THE HEAD...AND HAVE
> > FAITH THAT A BULLET DOES NOT BLOW YOUR BRAINS OUT...
> > YOU ARE AN IDIOT
> > PROVE YOUR FAITH....BE SURE AND GET SOMEONE TO TAKE PICTURES AND POST THEM
> > ON YOUTUBE.COM AND SHOW US HOW YOUR FAITH WORKS OUT FOR YOU.
> > WHADDA BUNCH OF FAITH-BASED KNUCKLE DRAGGERS....GOT A BANANA?
> > On Tue, Nov 3, 2009 at 9:28 PM, Simon Ewins <sjew...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > [Alan Wostenberg]
> > > > That is what they believe, who don't distinguish between the rational
> > > > preambles to faith, and the faith.
> > > Faith and 'the faith' do not address the same thing.
> > > > "Faith and reason" writes Pope John Paul the II in http://tr.im/E4A5
> > > > ... "are like two wings on which the human spirit rises to the
> > > > contemplation of truth".
> > > Then the Pope disagrees with Hebrews, which is mildly surprising. Hebrews
> > > makes it very clear that faith is to be considered a type of evidence. The
> > > evidence of hope. That should be enough, but Christians don't seem to really
> > > be able to accept faith alone so they go to great lengths to convince
> > > themselves by engaging in futile reasoning with non-believers. This is to no
> > > avail as the number of Christians is dropping.
> > > > For example, that God exists is not an article of faith for those who
> > > > can follow the purely rational demonstrations.
> > > Yes it is. There are no purely rational demonstrations of gods existing. If
> > > there were then there would be no atheists.
> > > > In fact, here are five
> > > > things no educated Catholic believes on faith alone, from Ronald
> > > > Knox's _the belief of Catholics_ at http://tr.im/E4J1
> > > > (i.) The existence of God.
> > > Must be faith alone. There is no solid rational argument for the existence
> > > of gods. The existence of atheists and thousands of individual theistic
> > > sects and outright religions is eloquent proof. Further Christians endlessly
> > > tell non-Christians that one cannot use the Bible to understand God unless
> > > one 'opens their hearts' and believes in God first. Eloquent demonstration
> > > of the need to abandon reason in favour of faith, so they cannot be the same
> > > thing.
> > > > (ii.) The fact that he has made a revelation to the world in Jesus
> > > > Christ.
> > > Again, if it were a fact there would be 6,000,000,000 Christians instead of
> > > only 33% (and dropping), 19% Muslims (and growing). This is eloquent proof
> > > that a god has not revealed himself to the world through Jesus or in any
> > > other way. People are generally not ignorant of facts and such a revelation
> > > to 6,000,000,000 people would result in way more than a paltry 1/3.
> > > > (iii.) The Life (in its broad outlines), the Death, and the
> > > > Resurrection of
> > > > Jesus Christ.
> > > Again, if it were a fact there would be 6,000,000,000 Christians instead of
> > > only 33% (and dropping), 19% Muslims (and growing). This is eloquent proof
> > > that a god has not revealed himself to the world through Jesus or in any
> > > other way. People are generally not ignorant of facts and such a revelation
> > > to 6,000,000,000 people would result in way more than a paltry 1/3.
> > > > (iv.) The fact that our Lord founded a Church.
> > > Again, if it were a fact there would be 6,000,000,000 Christians instead of
> > > only 33% (and dropping), 19% Muslims (and growing). This is eloquent proof
> > > that a god has not revealed himself to the world through Jesus or in any
> > > other way. People are generally not ignorant of facts and such a revelation
> > > to 6,000,000,000 people would result in way more than a paltry 1/3.
> > > > (v.) The fact that he bequeathed to that Church his own teaching
> > > > office,
> > > > with the guarantee (naturally) that it should not err in teaching.
> > > Again, if it were a fact there would be 6,000,000,000 Christians instead of
> > > (as of 2000) only 33% (and dropping), 19% Muslims (and growing). This is
> > > eloquent proof that a god has not revealed himself to the world through
> > > Jesus or in any other way. People are generally not ignorant of facts and
> > > such a revelation to 6,000,000,000 people would result in way more than a
> > > paltry 1/3.
> > > > (vi.) The consequent intellectual duty of believing what the Church
> > > > believes.
> > > Not very convincing at all. One cannot be intellectually honest and believe
> > > that which is not intellectually supportable.
> > > {Statistics on religious numbers fromhttp://www.missionfrontiers.org/}
> > > --
> > > "However many holy words you read, however many you speak,
> > > what good will they do you if you do not act on upon them?"
> > > [Buddha]
> > > Virtual Gods:http://users3.jabry.com/sjewins/library/__philorelig.htm
> > > --
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> > int_1.jpg
> > 66KViewDownload
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