Then its not FAITH....FACTS are not FAITH...FAITH is a belief in
magic.....that in your head,
god is speaking just to you, and god is giving you the answers...and all
facts, evidence, reality,
and SCIENCE is wrong....
DEFINITION OF FAITH IS......THE WILLINGNESS TO BELIEVE SOMETHING IS TRUE
WITHOUT FACTS OR EVIDENCE.
YES, SWEETIE, THEY BOTH START WITH THE LETTER "F"...BUT THAT'S WHERE THEIR
SIMILIARITY ENDS.
In history....the original word "faith" used by the Gnostics...meant one
"hoped" something was true...that was faith.
Then in the 1950s....the religious twits doing their public relations
magic....then changed the word "faith" from "hope" to it is true because god
said it was....well, that is not what the original translation of the word
"faith" said.
But...since the 1960s onward....the xians wanting to make a lot of
money...have changed lots of things about religion...including introducing
more beliefs in religious magic.
On Tue, Nov 3, 2009 at 9:46 PM, A Query <djb...@uow.edu.au> wrote:
> No, I believe in faith informed by facts. Taking your example, you
> load a gun and have faith that when you pull the trigger, something
> will happen. This faith is informed by previous experience and by
> knowledge of the workings of a gun. To trust that the gun will not go
> off when you pull the trigger is to be ignorant of the facts. It is of
> course an unreasonable faith to hold. My faith is *not* an
> unreasonable faith for it is based firmly on evidence.
> On Nov 4, 1:40 pm, Diana Wilson <dwilso...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > SO YOU BELIEVE IN FAITH OVER FACTS?
> > ALRIGHTY THEN....GO LOAD A GUN...AND SHOOT YOURSELF IN THE HEAD...AND
> HAVE
> > FAITH THAT A BULLET DOES NOT BLOW YOUR BRAINS OUT...
> > YOU ARE AN IDIOT
> > PROVE YOUR FAITH....BE SURE AND GET SOMEONE TO TAKE PICTURES AND POST
> THEM
> > ON YOUTUBE.COM AND SHOW US HOW YOUR FAITH WORKS OUT FOR YOU.
> > WHADDA BUNCH OF FAITH-BASED KNUCKLE DRAGGERS....GOT A BANANA?
> > On Tue, Nov 3, 2009 at 9:28 PM, Simon Ewins <sjew...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > [Alan Wostenberg]
> > > > That is what they believe, who don't distinguish between the rational
> > > > preambles to faith, and the faith.
> > > Faith and 'the faith' do not address the same thing.
> > > > "Faith and reason" writes Pope John Paul the II in
> http://tr.im/E4A5
> > > > ... "are like two wings on which the human spirit rises to the
> > > > contemplation of truth".
> > > Then the Pope disagrees with Hebrews, which is mildly surprising.
> Hebrews
> > > makes it very clear that faith is to be considered a type of evidence.
> The
> > > evidence of hope. That should be enough, but Christians don't seem to
> really
> > > be able to accept faith alone so they go to great lengths to convince
> > > themselves by engaging in futile reasoning with non-believers. This is
> to no
> > > avail as the number of Christians is dropping.
> > > > For example, that God exists is not an article of faith for those who
> > > > can follow the purely rational demonstrations.
> > > Yes it is. There are no purely rational demonstrations of gods
> existing. If
> > > there were then there would be no atheists.
> > > > In fact, here are five
> > > > things no educated Catholic believes on faith alone, from Ronald
> > > Must be faith alone. There is no solid rational argument for the
> existence
> > > of gods. The existence of atheists and thousands of individual theistic
> > > sects and outright religions is eloquent proof. Further Christians
> endlessly
> > > tell non-Christians that one cannot use the Bible to understand God
> unless
> > > one 'opens their hearts' and believes in God first. Eloquent
> demonstration
> > > of the need to abandon reason in favour of faith, so they cannot be the
> same
> > > thing.
> > > > (ii.) The fact that he has made a revelation to the world in Jesus
> > > > Christ.
> > > Again, if it were a fact there would be 6,000,000,000 Christians
> instead of
> > > only 33% (and dropping), 19% Muslims (and growing). This is eloquent
> proof
> > > that a god has not revealed himself to the world through Jesus or in
> any
> > > other way. People are generally not ignorant of facts and such a
> revelation
> > > to 6,000,000,000 people would result in way more than a paltry 1/3.
> > > > (iii.) The Life (in its broad outlines), the Death, and the
> > > > Resurrection of
> > > > Jesus Christ.
> > > Again, if it were a fact there would be 6,000,000,000 Christians
> instead of
> > > only 33% (and dropping), 19% Muslims (and growing). This is eloquent
> proof
> > > that a god has not revealed himself to the world through Jesus or in
> any
> > > other way. People are generally not ignorant of facts and such a
> revelation
> > > to 6,000,000,000 people would result in way more than a paltry 1/3.
> > > > (iv.) The fact that our Lord founded a Church.
> > > Again, if it were a fact there would be 6,000,000,000 Christians
> instead of
> > > only 33% (and dropping), 19% Muslims (and growing). This is eloquent
> proof
> > > that a god has not revealed himself to the world through Jesus or in
> any
> > > other way. People are generally not ignorant of facts and such a
> revelation
> > > to 6,000,000,000 people would result in way more than a paltry 1/3.
> > > > (v.) The fact that he bequeathed to that Church his own teaching
> > > > office,
> > > > with the guarantee (naturally) that it should not err in teaching.
> > > Again, if it were a fact there would be 6,000,000,000 Christians
> instead of
> > > (as of 2000) only 33% (and dropping), 19% Muslims (and growing). This
> is
> > > eloquent proof that a god has not revealed himself to the world through
> > > Jesus or in any other way. People are generally not ignorant of facts
> and
> > > such a revelation to 6,000,000,000 people would result in way more than
> a
> > > paltry 1/3.
> > > > (vi.) The consequent intellectual duty of believing what the Church
> > > > believes.
> > > Not very convincing at all. One cannot be intellectually honest and
> believe
> > > that which is not intellectually supportable.
> > > --
> > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> Groups
> > > "Atheism vs Christianity" group.
> > > To post to this group, send email to
> > > atheism-vs-christianity@googlegroups.com.
> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> > > atheism-vs-christianity+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com<atheism-vs-christianit y%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups.com><atheism-vs-christianit
> y%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups.com <y%252Bunsubscribe@googlegroups.com>>
> > > .
> > > For more options, visit this group at
> > >http://groups.google.com/group/atheism-vs-christianity?hl=en.
> > int_1.jpg
> > 66KViewDownload
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "Atheism vs Christianity" group.
> To post to this group, send email to
> atheism-vs-christianity@googlegroups.com.
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> atheism-vs-christianity+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com<atheism-vs-christianit y%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups.com>
> .
> For more options, visit this group at
> http://groups.google.com/group/atheism-vs-christianity?hl=en.
It would be helpful if you didn't start a new thread every time you
respond to someone. Just click reply on the post you want to respond
to, and your response will come up in that thread.
On Nov 4, 2:00 pm, Diana Wilson <dwilso...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Then its not FAITH....FACTS are not FAITH...FAITH is a belief in
> magic.....that in your head,
> god is speaking just to you, and god is giving you the answers...and all
> facts, evidence, reality,
> and SCIENCE is wrong....
> DEFINITION OF FAITH IS......THE WILLINGNESS TO BELIEVE SOMETHING IS TRUE
> WITHOUT FACTS OR EVIDENCE.
> YES, SWEETIE, THEY BOTH START WITH THE LETTER "F"...BUT THAT'S WHERE THEIR
> SIMILIARITY ENDS.
> In history....the original word "faith" used by the Gnostics...meant one
> "hoped" something was true...that was faith.
> Then in the 1950s....the religious twits doing their public relations
> magic....then changed the word "faith" from "hope" to it is true because god
> said it was....well, that is not what the original translation of the word
> "faith" said.
> But...since the 1960s onward....the xians wanting to make a lot of
> money...have changed lots of things about religion...including introducing
> more beliefs in religious magic.
> On Tue, Nov 3, 2009 at 9:46 PM, A Query <djb...@uow.edu.au> wrote:
> > No, I believe in faith informed by facts. Taking your example, you
> > load a gun and have faith that when you pull the trigger, something
> > will happen. This faith is informed by previous experience and by
> > knowledge of the workings of a gun. To trust that the gun will not go
> > off when you pull the trigger is to be ignorant of the facts. It is of
> > course an unreasonable faith to hold. My faith is *not* an
> > unreasonable faith for it is based firmly on evidence.
> > On Nov 4, 1:40 pm, Diana Wilson <dwilso...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > SO YOU BELIEVE IN FAITH OVER FACTS?
> > > ALRIGHTY THEN....GO LOAD A GUN...AND SHOOT YOURSELF IN THE HEAD...AND
> > HAVE
> > > FAITH THAT A BULLET DOES NOT BLOW YOUR BRAINS OUT...
> > > YOU ARE AN IDIOT
> > > PROVE YOUR FAITH....BE SURE AND GET SOMEONE TO TAKE PICTURES AND POST
> > THEM
> > > ON YOUTUBE.COM AND SHOW US HOW YOUR FAITH WORKS OUT FOR YOU.
> > > WHADDA BUNCH OF FAITH-BASED KNUCKLE DRAGGERS....GOT A BANANA?
> > > On Tue, Nov 3, 2009 at 9:28 PM, Simon Ewins <sjew...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > [Alan Wostenberg]
> > > > > That is what they believe, who don't distinguish between the rational
> > > > > preambles to faith, and the faith.
> > > > Faith and 'the faith' do not address the same thing.
> > > > > "Faith and reason" writes Pope John Paul the II in
> >http://tr.im/E4A5
> > > > > ... "are like two wings on which the human spirit rises to the
> > > > > contemplation of truth".
> > > > Then the Pope disagrees with Hebrews, which is mildly surprising.
> > Hebrews
> > > > makes it very clear that faith is to be considered a type of evidence.
> > The
> > > > evidence of hope. That should be enough, but Christians don't seem to
> > really
> > > > be able to accept faith alone so they go to great lengths to convince
> > > > themselves by engaging in futile reasoning with non-believers. This is
> > to no
> > > > avail as the number of Christians is dropping.
> > > > > For example, that God exists is not an article of faith for those who
> > > > > can follow the purely rational demonstrations.
> > > > Yes it is. There are no purely rational demonstrations of gods
> > existing. If
> > > > there were then there would be no atheists.
> > > > > In fact, here are five
> > > > > things no educated Catholic believes on faith alone, from Ronald
> > > > Must be faith alone. There is no solid rational argument for the
> > existence
> > > > of gods. The existence of atheists and thousands of individual theistic
> > > > sects and outright religions is eloquent proof. Further Christians
> > endlessly
> > > > tell non-Christians that one cannot use the Bible to understand God
> > unless
> > > > one 'opens their hearts' and believes in God first. Eloquent
> > demonstration
> > > > of the need to abandon reason in favour of faith, so they cannot be the
> > same
> > > > thing.
> > > > > (ii.) The fact that he has made a revelation to the world in Jesus
> > > > > Christ.
> > > > Again, if it were a fact there would be 6,000,000,000 Christians
> > instead of
> > > > only 33% (and dropping), 19% Muslims (and growing). This is eloquent
> > proof
> > > > that a god has not revealed himself to the world through Jesus or in
> > any
> > > > other way. People are generally not ignorant of facts and such a
> > revelation
> > > > to 6,000,000,000 people would result in way more than a paltry 1/3.
> > > > > (iii.) The Life (in its broad outlines), the Death, and the
> > > > > Resurrection of
> > > > > Jesus Christ.
> > > > Again, if it were a fact there would be 6,000,000,000 Christians
> > instead of
> > > > only 33% (and dropping), 19% Muslims (and growing). This is eloquent
> > proof
> > > > that a god has not revealed himself to the world through Jesus or in
> > any
> > > > other way. People are generally not ignorant of facts and such a
> > revelation
> > > > to 6,000,000,000 people would result in way more than a paltry 1/3.
> > > > > (iv.) The fact that our Lord founded a Church.
> > > > Again, if it were a fact there would be 6,000,000,000 Christians
> > instead of
> > > > only 33% (and dropping), 19% Muslims (and growing). This is eloquent
> > proof
> > > > that a god has not revealed himself to the world through Jesus or in
> > any
> > > > other way. People are generally not ignorant of facts and such a
> > revelation
> > > > to 6,000,000,000 people would result in way more than a paltry 1/3.
> > > > > (v.) The fact that he bequeathed to that Church his own teaching
> > > > > office,
> > > > > with the guarantee (naturally) that it should not err in teaching.
> > > > Again, if it were a fact there would be 6,000,000,000 Christians
> > instead of
> > > > (as of 2000) only 33% (and dropping), 19% Muslims (and growing). This
> > is
> > > > eloquent proof that a god has not revealed himself to the world through
> > > > Jesus or in any other way. People are generally not ignorant of facts
> > and
> > > > such a revelation to 6,000,000,000 people would result in way more than
> > a
> > > > paltry 1/3.
> > > > > (vi.) The consequent intellectual duty of believing what the Church
> > > > > believes.
> > > > Not very convincing at all. One cannot be intellectually honest and
> > believe
> > > > that which is not intellectually supportable.
> > > > --
> > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> > Groups
> > > > "Atheism vs Christianity" group.
> > > > To post to this group, send email to
> > > > atheism-vs-christianity@googlegroups.com.
> > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> > > > atheism-vs-christianity+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com<atheism-vs-christianit y%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups.com><atheism-vs-christianit
> > y%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups.com <y%252Bunsubscribe@googlegroups.com>>
> > > > .
> > > > For more options, visit this group at
> > > >http://groups.google.com/group/atheism-vs-christianity?hl=en.
> > > int_1.jpg
> > > 66KViewDownload
> > --
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> > "Atheism vs Christianity" group.
> > To post to this group, send email to
> > atheism-vs-christianity@googlegroups.com.
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> > atheism-vs-christianity+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com<atheism-vs-christianit y%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups.com>
> > .
> > For more options, visit this group at
> >http://groups.google.com/group/atheism-vs-christianity?hl=en.
> Then its not FAITH....FACTS are not FAITH...FAITH is a belief in
> magic.....that in your head,
> god is speaking just to you, and god is giving you the answers...and all
> facts, evidence, reality,
> and SCIENCE is wrong....
> DEFINITION OF FAITH IS......THE WILLINGNESS TO BELIEVE SOMETHING IS TRUE
> WITHOUT FACTS OR EVIDENCE.
> YES, SWEETIE, THEY BOTH START WITH THE LETTER "F"...BUT THAT'S WHERE THEIR
> SIMILIARITY ENDS.
> In history....the original word "faith" used by the Gnostics...meant one
> "hoped" something was true...that was faith.
> Then in the 1950s....the religious twits doing their public relations
> magic....then changed the word "faith" from "hope" to it is true because god
> said it was....well, that is not what the original translation of the word
> "faith" said.
> But...since the 1960s onward....the xians wanting to make a lot of
> money...have changed lots of things about religion...including introducing
> more beliefs in religious magic.
> On Tue, Nov 3, 2009 at 9:46 PM, A Query <djb...@uow.edu.au> wrote:
> > No, I believe in faith informed by facts. Taking your example, you
> > load a gun and have faith that when you pull the trigger, something
> > will happen. This faith is informed by previous experience and by
> > knowledge of the workings of a gun. To trust that the gun will not go
> > off when you pull the trigger is to be ignorant of the facts. It is of
> > course an unreasonable faith to hold. My faith is *not* an
> > unreasonable faith for it is based firmly on evidence.
> > On Nov 4, 1:40 pm, Diana Wilson <dwilso...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > SO YOU BELIEVE IN FAITH OVER FACTS?
> > > ALRIGHTY THEN....GO LOAD A GUN...AND SHOOT YOURSELF IN THE HEAD...AND
> > HAVE
> > > FAITH THAT A BULLET DOES NOT BLOW YOUR BRAINS OUT...
> > > YOU ARE AN IDIOT
> > > PROVE YOUR FAITH....BE SURE AND GET SOMEONE TO TAKE PICTURES AND POST
> > THEM
> > > ON YOUTUBE.COM AND SHOW US HOW YOUR FAITH WORKS OUT FOR YOU.
> > > WHADDA BUNCH OF FAITH-BASED KNUCKLE DRAGGERS....GOT A BANANA?
> > > On Tue, Nov 3, 2009 at 9:28 PM, Simon Ewins <sjew...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > [Alan Wostenberg]
> > > > > That is what they believe, who don't distinguish between the rational
> > > > > preambles to faith, and the faith.
> > > > Faith and 'the faith' do not address the same thing.
> > > > > "Faith and reason" writes Pope John Paul the II in
> >http://tr.im/E4A5
> > > > > ... "are like two wings on which the human spirit rises to the
> > > > > contemplation of truth".
> > > > Then the Pope disagrees with Hebrews, which is mildly surprising.
> > Hebrews
> > > > makes it very clear that faith is to be considered a type of evidence.
> > The
> > > > evidence of hope. That should be enough, but Christians don't seem to
> > really
> > > > be able to accept faith alone so they go to great lengths to convince
> > > > themselves by engaging in futile reasoning with non-believers. This is
> > to no
> > > > avail as the number of Christians is dropping.
> > > > > For example, that God exists is not an article of faith for those who
> > > > > can follow the purely rational demonstrations.
> > > > Yes it is. There are no purely rational demonstrations of gods
> > existing. If
> > > > there were then there would be no atheists.
> > > > > In fact, here are five
> > > > > things no educated Catholic believes on faith alone, from Ronald
> > > > Must be faith alone. There is no solid rational argument for the
> > existence
> > > > of gods. The existence of atheists and thousands of individual theistic
> > > > sects and outright religions is eloquent proof. Further Christians
> > endlessly
> > > > tell non-Christians that one cannot use the Bible to understand God
> > unless
> > > > one 'opens their hearts' and believes in God first. Eloquent
> > demonstration
> > > > of the need to abandon reason in favour of faith, so they cannot be the
> > same
> > > > thing.
> > > > > (ii.) The fact that he has made a revelation to the world in Jesus
> > > > > Christ.
> > > > Again, if it were a fact there would be 6,000,000,000 Christians
> > instead of
> > > > only 33% (and dropping), 19% Muslims (and growing). This is eloquent
> > proof
> > > > that a god has not revealed himself to the world through Jesus or in
> > any
> > > > other way. People are generally not ignorant of facts and such a
> > revelation
> > > > to 6,000,000,000 people would result in way more than a paltry 1/3.
> > > > > (iii.) The Life (in its broad outlines), the Death, and the
> > > > > Resurrection of
> > > > > Jesus Christ.
> > > > Again, if it were a fact there would be 6,000,000,000 Christians
> > instead of
> > > > only 33% (and dropping), 19% Muslims (and growing). This is eloquent
> > proof
> > > > that a god has not revealed himself to the world through Jesus or in
> > any
> > > > other way. People are generally not ignorant of facts and such a
> > revelation
> > > > to 6,000,000,000 people would result in way more than a paltry 1/3.
> > > > > (iv.) The fact that our Lord founded a Church.
> > > > Again, if it were a fact there would be 6,000,000,000 Christians
> > instead of
> > > > only 33% (and dropping), 19% Muslims (and growing). This is eloquent
> > proof
> > > > that a god has not revealed himself to the world through Jesus or in
> > any
> > > > other way. People are generally not ignorant of facts and such a
> > revelation
> > > > to 6,000,000,000 people would result in way more than a paltry 1/3.
> > > > > (v.) The fact that he bequeathed to that Church his own teaching
> > > > > office,
> > > > > with the guarantee (naturally) that it should not err in teaching.
> > > > Again, if it were a fact there would be 6,000,000,000 Christians
> > instead of
> > > > (as of 2000) only 33% (and dropping), 19% Muslims (and growing). This
> > is
> > > > eloquent proof that a god has not revealed himself to the world through
> > > > Jesus or in any other way. People are generally not ignorant of facts
> > and
> > > > such a revelation to 6,000,000,000 people would result in way more than
> > a
> > > > paltry 1/3.
> > > > > (vi.) The consequent intellectual duty of believing what the Church
> > > > > believes.
> > > > Not very convincing at all. One cannot be intellectually honest and
> > believe
> > > > that which is not intellectually supportable.
> > > > --
> > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> > Groups
> > > > "Atheism vs Christianity" group.
> > > > To post to this group, send email to
> > > > atheism-vs-christianity@googlegroups.com.
> > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> > > > atheism-vs-christianity+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com<atheism-vs-christianit y%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups.com><atheism-vs-christianit
> > y%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups.com <y%252Bunsubscribe@googlegroups.com>>
> > > > .
> > > > For more options, visit this group at
> > > >http://groups.google.com/group/atheism-vs-christianity?hl=en.
> > > int_1.jpg
> > > 66KViewDownload
> > --
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> > "Atheism vs Christianity" group.
> > To post to this group, send email to
> > atheism-vs-christianity@googlegroups.com.
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> > atheism-vs-christianity+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com<atheism-vs-christianit y%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups.com>
> > .
> > For more options, visit this group at
> >http://groups.google.com/group/atheism-vs-christianity?hl=en.
On Nov 3, 7:11 pm, A Query <djb...@uow.edu.au> wrote:
> BTW, what makes your definition of faith more correct than mine?
Observer
Faith
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search
For other uses, see Faith (disambiguation).
Faith is the confident belief or trust in the truth or trustworthiness
of a person, idea, or thing.[1][2] The word "faith" can refer to a
religion itself or to religion in general. As with "trust", faith
involves a concept of future events or outcomes, and is used
conversely for a belief "not resting on logical proof or material
evidence."[3][4] Informal usage of the word "faith" can be quite
broad, and may be used in place of "trust" or "belief."
Faith is often used in a religious context, as in theology, where it
almost universally refers to a trusting belief in a transcendent
reality, or else in a Supreme Being and/or this being's role in the
order of transcendent, spiritual things.
Faith is in general the persuasion of the mind that a certain
statement is true.[5] It is the belief and the assent of the mind to
the truth of what is declared by another, based on his or her
authority and truthfulness.[6] The English word faith is dated from
1200–50, from the Latin fidem, or fidēs, meaning trust, akin to
fīdere, which means to trust.[1]
Observer
Faith is the belief in that for which there exists no scientifically
verifiable substantiating data and is therefore pretty stupid. What is
called evil by most proceeds forth from ignorance which is perpetuated
by faith in what that lacking any truth and for which no scientific
data can be produced providing substantiation therefor .
In fact when one chooses to believe in the black art of magic and the
fetishes attendant fetishes attendant there to which compose the
entirety of the sadomasochistic filth of Christianity one begins to
commit the ultimate criminal act against ones self. When one
deliberately purveys such superstitious filth he has become a common
criminal committing crimes against himself and against humanity, when
children are involves such becomes child abuse.
> On Nov 4, 2:00 pm, Diana Wilson <dwilso...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Then its not FAITH....FACTS are not FAITH...FAITH is a belief in
> > magic.....that in your head,
> > god is speaking just to you, and god is giving you the answers...and all
> > facts, evidence, reality,
> > and SCIENCE is wrong....
> > DEFINITION OF FAITH IS......THE WILLINGNESS TO BELIEVE SOMETHING IS TRUE
> > WITHOUT FACTS OR EVIDENCE.
> > YES, SWEETIE, THEY BOTH START WITH THE LETTER "F"...BUT THAT'S WHERE THEIR
> > SIMILIARITY ENDS.
> > In history....the original word "faith" used by the Gnostics...meant one
> > "hoped" something was true...that was faith.
> > Then in the 1950s....the religious twits doing their public relations
> > magic....then changed the word "faith" from "hope" to it is true because god
> > said it was....well, that is not what the original translation of the word
> > "faith" said.
> > But...since the 1960s onward....the xians wanting to make a lot of
> > money...have changed lots of things about religion...including introducing
> > more beliefs in religious magic.
> > On Tue, Nov 3, 2009 at 9:46 PM, A Query <djb...@uow.edu.au> wrote:
> > > No, I believe in faith informed by facts. Taking your example, you
> > > load a gun and have faith that when you pull the trigger, something
> > > will happen. This faith is informed by previous experience and by
> > > knowledge of the workings of a gun. To trust that the gun will not go
> > > off when you pull the trigger is to be ignorant of the facts. It is of
> > > course an unreasonable faith to hold. My faith is *not* an
> > > unreasonable faith for it is based firmly on evidence.
> > > On Nov 4, 1:40 pm, Diana Wilson <dwilso...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > SO YOU BELIEVE IN FAITH OVER FACTS?
> > > > ALRIGHTY THEN....GO LOAD A GUN...AND SHOOT YOURSELF IN THE HEAD...AND
> > > HAVE
> > > > FAITH THAT A BULLET DOES NOT BLOW YOUR BRAINS OUT...
> > > > YOU ARE AN IDIOT
> > > > PROVE YOUR FAITH....BE SURE AND GET SOMEONE TO TAKE PICTURES AND POST
> > > THEM
> > > > ON YOUTUBE.COM AND SHOW US HOW YOUR FAITH WORKS OUT FOR YOU.
> > > > WHADDA BUNCH OF FAITH-BASED KNUCKLE DRAGGERS....GOT A BANANA?
> > > > On Tue, Nov 3, 2009 at 9:28 PM, Simon Ewins <sjew...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > [Alan Wostenberg]
> > > > > > That is what they believe, who don't distinguish between the rational
> > > > > > preambles to faith, and the faith.
> > > > > Faith and 'the faith' do not address the same thing.
> > > > > > "Faith and reason" writes Pope John Paul the II in
> > >http://tr.im/E4A5
> > > > > > ... "are like two wings on which the human spirit rises to the
> > > > > > contemplation of truth".
> > > > > Then the Pope disagrees with Hebrews, which is mildly surprising.
> > > Hebrews
> > > > > makes it very clear that faith is to be considered a type of evidence.
> > > The
> > > > > evidence of hope. That should be enough, but Christians don't seem to
> > > really
> > > > > be able to accept faith alone so they go to great lengths to convince
> > > > > themselves by engaging in futile reasoning with non-believers. This is
> > > to no
> > > > > avail as the number of Christians is dropping.
> > > > > > For example, that God exists is not an article of faith for those who
> > > > > > can follow the purely rational demonstrations.
> > > > > Yes it is. There are no purely rational demonstrations of gods
> > > existing. If
> > > > > there were then there would be no atheists.
> > > > > > In fact, here are five
> > > > > > things no educated Catholic believes on faith alone, from Ronald
> > > > > Must be faith alone. There is no solid rational argument for the
> > > existence
> > > > > of gods. The existence of atheists and thousands of individual theistic
> > > > > sects and outright religions is eloquent proof. Further Christians
> > > endlessly
> > > > > tell non-Christians that one cannot use the Bible to understand God
> > > unless
> > > > > one 'opens their hearts' and believes in God first. Eloquent
> > > demonstration
> > > > > of the need to abandon reason in favour of faith, so they cannot be the
> > > same
> > > > > thing.
> > > > > > (ii.) The fact that he has made a revelation to the world in Jesus
> > > > > > Christ.
> > > > > Again, if it were a fact there would be 6,000,000,000 Christians
> > > instead of
> > > > > only 33% (and dropping), 19% Muslims (and growing). This is eloquent
> > > proof
> > > > > that a god has not revealed himself to the world through Jesus or in
> > > any
> > > > > other way. People are generally not ignorant of facts and such a
> > > revelation
> > > > > to 6,000,000,000 people would result in way more than a paltry 1/3.
> > > > > > (iii.) The Life (in its broad outlines), the Death, and the
> > > > > > Resurrection of
> > > > > > Jesus Christ.
> > > > > Again, if it were a fact there would be 6,000,000,000 Christians
> > > instead of
> > > > > only 33% (and dropping), 19% Muslims (and growing). This is eloquent
> > > proof
> > > > > that a god has not revealed himself to the world through Jesus or in
> > > any
> > > > > other way. People are generally not ignorant of facts and such a
> > > revelation
> > > > > to 6,000,000,000 people would result in way more than a paltry 1/3.
> > > > > > (iv.) The fact that our Lord founded a Church.
> > > > > Again, if it were a fact there would be 6,000,000,000 Christians
> > > instead of
> > > > > only 33% (and dropping), 19% Muslims (and growing). This is eloquent
> > > proof
> > > > > that a god has not revealed himself to the world through Jesus or in
> > > any
> > > > > other way. People are generally not ignorant of facts and such a
> > > revelation
> > > > > to 6,000,000,000 people would result in way more than a paltry 1/3.
> > > > > > (v.) The fact that he bequeathed to that Church his own teaching
> > > > > > office,
> > > > > > with the guarantee (naturally) that it should not err in teaching.
> > > > > Again, if it were a fact there would be 6,000,000,000 Christians
> > > instead of
> > > > > (as of 2000) only 33% (and dropping), 19% Muslims (and growing). This
> > > is
> > > > > eloquent proof that a god has not revealed himself to the world through
> > > > > Jesus or in any other way. People are generally not ignorant of facts
> > > and
> > > > > such a revelation to 6,000,000,000 people would result in way more than
> > > a
> > > > > paltry 1/3.
> > > > > > (vi.) The consequent intellectual duty of believing what the Church
> > > > > > believes.
> > > > > Not very convincing at all. One cannot be intellectually honest and
> > > believe
> > > > > that which is not intellectually supportable.
> > > > > --
> > > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> > > Groups
> > > > > "Atheism vs Christianity" group.
> > > > > To post to this group, send email to
> > > > > atheism-vs-christianity@googlegroups.com.
> > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> > > > > atheism-vs-christianity+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com<atheism-vs-christianit y%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups.com><atheism-vs-christianit
On Thu, Nov 5, 2009 at 3:25 AM, Observer <mayors...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Nov 3, 7:11 pm, A Query <djb...@uow.edu.au> wrote:
> > BTW, what makes your definition of faith more correct than mine?
> Observer
> Faith
> From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> Jump to: navigation, search
> For other uses, see Faith (disambiguation).
> Faith is the confident belief or trust in the truth or trustworthiness
> of a person, idea, or thing.[1][2] The word "faith" can refer to a
> religion itself or to religion in general. As with "trust", faith
> involves a concept of future events or outcomes, and is used
> conversely for a belief "not resting on logical proof or material
> evidence."[3][4] Informal usage of the word "faith" can be quite
> broad, and may be used in place of "trust" or "belief."
> Faith is often used in a religious context, as in theology, where it
> almost universally refers to a trusting belief in a transcendent
> reality, or else in a Supreme Being and/or this being's role in the
> order of transcendent, spiritual things.
> Faith is in general the persuasion of the mind that a certain
> statement is true.[5] It is the belief and the assent of the mind to
> the truth of what is declared by another, based on his or her
> authority and truthfulness.[6] The English word faith is dated from
> 1200–50, from the Latin fidem, or fidēs, meaning trust, akin to
> fīdere, which means to trust.[1]
> Observer
> Faith is the belief in that for which there exists no scientifically
> verifiable substantiating data and is therefore pretty stupid. What is
> called evil by most proceeds forth from ignorance which is perpetuated
> by faith in what that lacking any truth and for which no scientific
> data can be produced providing substantiation therefor .
> In fact when one chooses to believe in the black art of magic and the
> fetishes attendant fetishes attendant there to which compose the
> entirety of the sadomasochistic filth of Christianity one begins to
> commit the ultimate criminal act against ones self. When one
> deliberately purveys such superstitious filth he has become a common
> criminal committing crimes against himself and against humanity, when
> children are involves such becomes child abuse.
> Psychonomy
Thea
Ah, but Faith is so much more than what a dictionary can depict.
Faith in Jesus' Blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of
sins.
A human being is justified by Faith apart from the deeds of the law. The
just shall live by Faith. *Being justified by Faith, we have peace with God
through our Lord Jesus Christ.
By whom also we have access by Faith into this grace in which we stand,*
St. Paul states in 2 Corinthians 5: *..while we are at home in the body, we
are absent from the Lord (for we walk by Faith, not by sight).*
We can either have faith in our own selves, or we can cast all our cares on
Jesus, and have Faith that He will take care of us.
I have discovered in my life, that Jesus does take care of us. So much
better than we can do for ourselves. And, I have discovered that the Peace
of God, in the presence of the Holy Spirit is so much more than this world
can ever give me.
No, it is not hiding my head, it is walking with the presence of the Holy
Spirit, being constantly aware that HE is working all things out in my life
for His Glory. And, everyone I meet and talk to, means that God is working
in their lives also.
Living with the Holy Spirit isn't about me, it's about the working of the
Holy Spirit in my life and those around me.
> > On Nov 4, 2:00 pm, Diana Wilson <dwilso...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > Then its not FAITH....FACTS are not FAITH...FAITH is a belief in
> > > magic.....that in your head,
> > > god is speaking just to you, and god is giving you the answers...and
> all
> > > facts, evidence, reality,
> > > and SCIENCE is wrong....
> > > DEFINITION OF FAITH IS......THE WILLINGNESS TO BELIEVE SOMETHING IS
> TRUE
> > > WITHOUT FACTS OR EVIDENCE.
> > > YES, SWEETIE, THEY BOTH START WITH THE LETTER "F"...BUT THAT'S WHERE
> THEIR
> > > SIMILIARITY ENDS.
> > > In history....the original word "faith" used by the Gnostics...meant
> one
> > > "hoped" something was true...that was faith.
> > > Then in the 1950s....the religious twits doing their public relations
> > > magic....then changed the word "faith" from "hope" to it is true
> because god
> > > said it was....well, that is not what the original translation of the
> word
> > > "faith" said.
> > > But...since the 1960s onward....the xians wanting to make a lot of
> > > money...have changed lots of things about religion...including
> introducing
> > > more beliefs in religious magic.
> > > On Tue, Nov 3, 2009 at 9:46 PM, A Query <djb...@uow.edu.au> wrote:
> > > > No, I believe in faith informed by facts. Taking your example, you
> > > > load a gun and have faith that when you pull the trigger, something
> > > > will happen. This faith is informed by previous experience and by
> > > > knowledge of the workings of a gun. To trust that the gun will not go
> > > > off when you pull the trigger is to be ignorant of the facts. It is
> of
> > > > course an unreasonable faith to hold. My faith is *not* an
> > > > unreasonable faith for it is based firmly on evidence.
> > > > On Nov 4, 1:40 pm, Diana Wilson <dwilso...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > SO YOU BELIEVE IN FAITH OVER FACTS?
> > > > > ALRIGHTY THEN....GO LOAD A GUN...AND SHOOT YOURSELF IN THE
> HEAD...AND
> > > > HAVE
> > > > > FAITH THAT A BULLET DOES NOT BLOW YOUR BRAINS OUT...
> > > > > YOU ARE AN IDIOT
> > > > > PROVE YOUR FAITH....BE SURE AND GET SOMEONE TO TAKE PICTURES AND
> POST
> > > > THEM
> > > > > ON YOUTUBE.COM <http://youtube.com/> AND SHOW US HOW YOUR FAITH
> WORKS OUT FOR YOU.
> > > > > WHADDA BUNCH OF FAITH-BASED KNUCKLE DRAGGERS....GOT A BANANA?
> > > > > On Tue, Nov 3, 2009 at 9:28 PM, Simon Ewins <sjew...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > > > > > [Alan Wostenberg]
> > > > > > > That is what they believe, who don't distinguish between the
> rational
> > > > > > > preambles to faith, and the faith.
> > > > > > Faith and 'the faith' do not address the same thing.
> > > > > > > "Faith and reason" writes Pope John Paul the II in
> > > >http://tr.im/E4A5
> > > > > > > ... "are like two wings on which the human spirit rises to the
> > > > > > > contemplation of truth".
> > > > > > Then the Pope disagrees with Hebrews, which is mildly surprising.
> > > > Hebrews
> > > > > > makes it very clear that faith is to be considered a type of
> evidence.
> > > > The
> > > > > > evidence of hope. That should be enough, but Christians don't
> seem to
> > > > really
> > > > > > be able to accept faith alone so they go to great lengths to
> convince
> > > > > > themselves by engaging in futile reasoning with non-believers.
> This is
> > > > to no
> > > > > > avail as the number of Christians is dropping.
> > > > > > > For example, that God exists is not an article of faith for
> those who
> > > > > > > can follow the purely rational demonstrations.
> > > > > > Yes it is. There are no purely rational demonstrations of gods
> > > > existing. If
> > > > > > there were then there would be no atheists.
> > > > > > > In fact, here are five
> > > > > > > things no educated Catholic believes on faith alone, from
> Ronald
> > > > > > Must be faith alone. There is no solid rational argument for the
> > > > existence
> > > > > > of gods. The existence of atheists and thousands of individual
> theistic
> > > > > > sects and outright religions is eloquent proof. Further
> Christians
> > > > endlessly
> > > > > > tell non-Christians that one cannot use the Bible to understand
> God
> > > > unless
> > > > > > one 'opens their hearts' and believes in God first. Eloquent
> > > > demonstration
> > > > > > of the need to abandon reason in favour of faith, so they cannot
> be the
> > > > same
> > > > > > thing.
> > > > > > > (ii.) The fact that he has made a revelation to the world in
> Jesus
> > > > > > > Christ.
> > > > > > Again, if it were a fact there would be 6,000,000,000 Christians
> > > > instead of
> > > > > > only 33% (and dropping), 19% Muslims (and growing). This is
> eloquent
> > > > proof
> > > > > > that a god has not revealed himself to the world through Jesus or
> in
> > > > any
> > > > > > other way. People are generally not ignorant of facts and such a
> > > > revelation
> > > > > > to 6,000,000,000 people would result in way more than a paltry
> 1/3.
> > > > > > > (iii.) The Life (in its broad outlines), the Death, and the
> > > > > > > Resurrection of
> > > > > > > Jesus Christ.
> > > > > > Again, if it were a fact there would be 6,000,000,000 Christians
> > > > instead of
> > > > > > only 33% (and dropping), 19% Muslims (and growing). This is
> eloquent
> > > > proof
> > > > > > that a god has not revealed himself to the world through Jesus or
> in
> > > > any
> > > > > > other way. People are generally not ignorant of facts and such a
> > > > revelation
> > > > > > to 6,000,000,000 people would result in way more than a paltry
> 1/3.
> > > > > > > (iv.) The fact that our Lord founded a Church.
> > > > > > Again, if it were a fact there would be 6,000,000,000 Christians
> > > > instead of
> > > > > > only 33% (and dropping), 19% Muslims (and growing). This is
> eloquent
> > > > proof
> > > > > > that a god has not revealed himself to the world through Jesus or
> in
> > > > any
> > > > > > other way. People are generally not ignorant
Why is my definition of "faith" as a belief and "trust" in the supernatural
a better definition.....Because...as usual, you xians make stuff up, you
also cherry pick out whatever reinforces the lie of your religion...And
Hello? Your imaginary god is not a person....or do you think your god is a
person? We will talk more about that very soon.
Faith in the religious sense is about belief in a supernatural something or
other, i.e. a god thingy... that you or someone have made up out of your
imagination. I know and you know for a fact, when you are honest with
yourself...that you don't trust in the supernatural at all....such faith as
you profess is more like entertainment.
If you think god is a person...then let us discuss your "person" god
attributes. Does your god have a penis? Does he use the toilet and take
baths? What kind of clothes does he wear. After all, the bible states that
your imginary god "knew" (bad translation) Mary...meaning in the original
translation he had actual sex with her, therefore your god has a penis. Do
you trust and have faith that your god has a penis? If your god has a penis
and made Mary pregnant, well Gee....then that penis was attached to a couple
of testicles, hanging between a couple of legs, ending in feet...and so on.
Is this what your imaginary god looks like to you? Ridiculous.
So, let's see how much faith/trust you have in something you either can't
discuss, or don't know, or can't prove or is just down right idiotic....
What you have faith in...is your compartementalized and
brainwashed imagination.
You can afford to have such "faith" in your brainwashed imagination...when
you are fooling around and entertaining yourself, but when you really need
to trust something and make a decision...like which car to buy, or which
product is the best or invest 1000s of dollars,....I know for a fact, you
don't "trust" or have faith in god...what you do...is research and get the
facts.
So you switch your "faith" on and off like a light bulb...when its
convenient for you and you can get away with it.
One more time...the definition of religious "faith" is trust in the
supernatural. Well...people who believe in witches, demons, and
voodoo...also do the same thing as you do, which is simply believe in your
own imagination.
Quesion: ...as a xian...do you also believe and have faith/trust in voodoo
gods too? If not, why not....? Someone who practices voodoo has just as much
"faith" and trust in voodoo gods as you do jesus...but are they real? Hell
no. And if you have faith and trust jesus is real...then you also have to
have faith and trust that chupacabras, martians, UFOs, witches on
broomsticks, red devils with horns and a pitch fork are real too. If you
don't...why not? What makes your faith and trust any different than someone
else's faith and trust in their gods, or demons? (Hint: Logic...reason,
common sense, and reality.)
When you took a math test in school...did you have "faith" that 2 + 2 =s
4...or is the answer 4 a fact? Where did the number 4 come from? Logic or
your faith in your imagination?
When people grow up and become adults...they don't "trust" in their childish
beliefs or their own imagination...but, then your religion demands you have
"child like faith"....and "believe" like one of Pavlov's dogs, whatever your
greasy-haired preacher tells you to "believe" and have faith in.
And having been trained to have "faith" and believe in such imaginary
silliness....your church has you by the short hairs. And if you have
"complete" faith and trust in your religion...and your preachers, then your
religion can tell you any kind of garbage...and you will not only believe
it, but act on it. Or do you "test" and seek to prove what your religion,
your bible, and your preachers have told you ...you must have "faith" in?
I can take 10,000 bible verses...such as "the sun revolves around the
earth"....or the "earth" is flat...and prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that
the bible is flat wrong. And in regards to such realities and proof...that
the sun does NOT float around the earth...do you still have faith and trust
that your bible is right...and the earth is flat, and the sun revolves
around the earth? I'd say about 95% of you, unless you are stark raving
lunatics...don't REALLY believe what your bible says and demands of you at
all....because if you did, you would be either in jail...or the laughing
stock of the world.
I have learned...that science is to religion...as sunshine is to
vampires....Poof!
Another test...what if your preacher, or your church denomination went on
TV...and the church leader said: God has given me a vision....I am the true
oracle for god....and you are to have "faith and trust" in what I say,
because god/jesus spoke to me...and furthermore, god has said we must follow
his commandments which are all written down in the bible, as jesus'
word...and go out and kill all the infidels, atheists, nonbelievers, and
wrong believers. Would you do it? Hey...xians use to have that kind of faith
and trust in the bible, jesus/god during the Middle Ages...so what is
stopping you now? Logic..reason, proof, evidence, human rights,
science,...and the laws of the US that keep you religious knuckle-draggers
from having complete "faith and trust" in your imaginary god and murderous
bible...to the point that you have been dis-inhibited from killing people
like me.
Why would you use the definition of the word "faith"....to trust
an imaginary god. And why would you have "faith" in something you cannot
prove exists?
Please...do not ever serve on a jury, because your "faith" in either a
person's innocence or guilt...would find a guilty person innocent, and an
innocent person guilty...based on your supernatural belief in UNQUALIFIED
faith and trust. Just how would you like to be judged for a crime...based on
someone else's faith? Thousands of innocent people are found guilty each
year by juries in the US based on "faith" and trust...that the prosecutor is
right...Of course you wouldn't.
Can you just imagine people on a jury in a court room....sitting around with
they eyes closed, and disregarding evidence, facts, and proofs...humming Kum
bay ya and praying to jesus to give them a "sign" someone is guilty or
innocent?
* *
*Hey...they already did that in the Middle Ages and millions were
persecuted, murdered, burned at the stake, and had pointed spikes shoved up
their anus...all based on faith in jesus and god as described right in your
bible...that such human beings were guilty of being heretics. *
**
*But, it was not your faith in god that stopped this hideous persecution of
innocent human beings....It was the Age of Reason and Enlightenment and
SCIENCE that saved us from your kind of religious and supernatural "faith"
in god...that murdered millions of innocent people.*
Please don't have any children either...what you teach them about
faith...will destroy their ability to trust in the use of reason, science,
facts, reality, and logic.
On Thu, Nov 5, 2009 at 4:25 AM, Observer <mayors...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Nov 3, 7:11 pm, A Query <djb...@uow.edu.au> wrote:
> > BTW, what makes your definition of faith more correct than mine?
> Observer
> Faith
> From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> Jump to: navigation, search
> For other uses, see Faith (disambiguation).
> Faith is the confident belief or trust in the truth or trustworthiness
> of a person, idea, or thing.[1][2] The word "faith" can refer to a
> religion itself or to religion in general. As with "trust", faith
> involves a concept of future events or outcomes, and is used
> conversely for a belief "not resting on logical proof or material
> evidence."[3][4] Informal usage of the word "faith" can be quite
> broad, and may be used in place of "trust" or "belief."
> Faith is often used in a religious context, as in theology, where it
> almost universally refers to a trusting belief in a transcendent
> reality, or else in a Supreme Being and/or this being's role in the
> order of transcendent, spiritual things.
> Faith is in general the persuasion of the mind that a certain
> statement is true.[5] It is the belief and the assent of the mind to
> the truth of what is declared by another, based on his or her
> authority and truthfulness.[6] The English word faith is dated from
> 1200–50, from the Latin fidem, or fidēs, meaning trust, akin to
> fīdere, which means to trust.[1]
> Observer
> Faith is the belief in that for which there exists no scientifically
> verifiable substantiating data and is therefore pretty stupid. What is
> called evil by most proceeds forth from ignorance which is perpetuated
> by faith in what that lacking any truth and for which no scientific
> data can be produced providing substantiation therefor .
> In fact when one chooses to believe in the black art of magic and the
> fetishes attendant fetishes attendant there to which compose the
> entirety of the sadomasochistic filth of Christianity one begins to
> commit the ultimate criminal act against ones self. When one
> deliberately purveys such superstitious filth he has become a common
> criminal committing crimes against himself and against humanity, when
> children are involves such becomes child abuse.
> Psychonomy
> > On Nov 4, 2:00 pm, Diana Wilson <dwilso...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > Then its not FAITH....FACTS are not FAITH...FAITH is a belief in
> > > magic.....that in your head,
> > > god is speaking just to you, and god is giving you the answers...and
> all
> > > facts, evidence, reality,
> > > and SCIENCE is wrong....
> > > DEFINITION OF FAITH IS......THE WILLINGNESS TO BELIEVE SOMETHING IS
> TRUE
> > > WITHOUT FACTS OR EVIDENCE.
> > > YES, SWEETIE, THEY BOTH START WITH THE LETTER "F"...BUT THAT'S
We can take all the verses out of context that we wish. However, it is
only when we get the full story being spoken of, that we find the blessing
that is given.
To fully understand the Bible we need to *rightly divide* which means we
come to understand who is being spoken to, when they were spoken to, in what
circumstance, etc. And, making sure that we understand what came before a
particular verse and what comes after our particular verse.
It is in understanding that St. Paul is the Apostle to the Gentiles, of
which I am one, and that the Grace of God was given to both Gentiles and
Jews in this Dispensation of the Grace of God.
If we cannot distinguish who is being spoken to -- there is a key that
unlocks the door to understanding.
We have to be willing to search to find the key that makes the Bible live,.
instead of just being something that we don't understand.
On Thu, Nov 5, 2009 at 9:14 AM, Diana Wilson <dwilso...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Why is my definition of "faith" as a belief and "trust" in the supernatural
> a better definition.....Because...as usual, you xians make stuff up, you
> also cherry pick out whatever reinforces the lie of your religion...And
> Hello? Your imaginary god is not a person....or do you think your god is a
> person? We will talk more about that very soon.
> Faith in the religious sense is about belief in a supernatural something or
> other, i.e. a god thingy... that you or someone have made up out of your
> imagination. I know and you know for a fact, when you are honest with
> yourself...that you don't trust in the supernatural at all....such faith as
> you profess is more like entertainment.
> If you think god is a person...then let us discuss your "person" god
> attributes. Does your god have a penis? Does he use the toilet and take
> baths? What kind of clothes does he wear. After all, the bible states that
> your imginary god "knew" (bad translation) Mary...meaning in the original
> translation he had actual sex with her, therefore your god has a penis. Do
> you trust and have faith that your god has a penis? If your god has a penis
> and made Mary pregnant, well Gee....then that penis was attached to a couple
> of testicles, hanging between a couple of legs, ending in feet...and so on.
> Is this what your imaginary god looks like to you? Ridiculous.
> So, let's see how much faith/trust you have in something you either can't
> discuss, or don't know, or can't prove or is just down right idiotic....
> What you have faith in...is your compartementalized and
> brainwashed imagination.
> You can afford to have such "faith" in your brainwashed imagination...when
> you are fooling around and entertaining yourself, but when you really need
> to trust something and make a decision...like which car to buy, or which
> product is the best or invest 1000s of dollars,....I know for a fact, you
> don't "trust" or have faith in god...what you do...is research and get the
> facts.
> So you switch your "faith" on and off like a light bulb...when its
> convenient for you and you can get away with it.
> One more time...the definition of religious "faith" is trust in the
> supernatural. Well...people who believe in witches, demons, and
> voodoo...also do the same thing as you do, which is simply believe in your
> own imagination.
> Quesion: ...as a xian...do you also believe and have faith/trust in voodoo
> gods too? If not, why not....? Someone who practices voodoo has just as much
> "faith" and trust in voodoo gods as you do jesus...but are they real? Hell
> no. And if you have faith and trust jesus is real...then you also have to
> have faith and trust that chupacabras, martians, UFOs, witches on
> broomsticks, red devils with horns and a pitch fork are real too. If you
> don't...why not? What makes your faith and trust any different than someone
> else's faith and trust in their gods, or demons? (Hint: Logic...reason,
> common sense, and reality.)
> When you took a math test in school...did you have "faith" that 2 + 2 =s
> 4...or is the answer 4 a fact? Where did the number 4 come from? Logic or
> your faith in your imagination?
> When people grow up and become adults...they don't "trust" in their
> childish beliefs or their own imagination...but, then your religion demands
> you have "child like faith"....and "believe" like one of Pavlov's dogs,
> whatever your greasy-haired preacher tells you to "believe" and have faith
> in.
> And having been trained to have "faith" and believe in such imaginary
> silliness....your church has you by the short hairs. And if you have
> "complete" faith and trust in your religion...and your preachers, then your
> religion can tell you any kind of garbage...and you will not only believe
> it, but act on it. Or do you "test" and seek to prove what your religion,
> your bible, and your preachers have told you ...you must have "faith" in?
> I can take 10,000 bible verses...such as "the sun revolves around the
> earth"....or the "earth" is flat...and prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that
> the bible is flat wrong. And in regards to such realities and proof...that
> the sun does NOT float around the earth...do you still have faith and trust
> that your bible is right...and the earth is flat, and the sun revolves
> around the earth? I'd say about 95% of you, unless you are stark raving
> lunatics...don't REALLY believe what your bible says and demands of you at
> all....because if you did, you would be either in jail...or the laughing
> stock of the world.
> I have learned...that science is to religion...as sunshine is to
> vampires....Poof!
> Another test...what if your preacher, or your church denomination went on
> TV...and the church leader said: God has given me a vision....I am the true
> oracle for god....and you are to have "faith and trust" in what I say,
> because god/jesus spoke to me...and furthermore, god has said we must follow
> his commandments which are all written down in the bible, as jesus'
> word...and go out and kill all the infidels, atheists, nonbelievers, and
> wrong believers. Would you do it? Hey...xians use to have that kind of faith
> and trust in the bible, jesus/god during the Middle Ages...so what is
> stopping you now? Logic..reason, proof, evidence, human rights,
> science,...and the laws of the US that keep you religious knuckle-draggers
> from having complete "faith and trust" in your imaginary god and murderous
> bible...to the point that you have been dis-inhibited from killing people
> like me.
> Why would you use the definition of the word "faith"....to trust
> an imaginary god. And why would you have "faith" in something you cannot
> prove exists?
> Please...do not ever serve on a jury, because your "faith" in either a
> person's innocence or guilt...would find a guilty person innocent, and an
> innocent person guilty...based on your supernatural belief in UNQUALIFIED
> faith and trust. Just how would you like to be judged for a crime...based on
> someone else's faith? Thousands of innocent people are found guilty each
> year by juries in the US based on "faith" and trust...that the prosecutor is
> right...Of course you wouldn't.
> Can you just imagine people on a jury in a court room....sitting around
> with they eyes closed, and disregarding evidence, facts, and
> proofs...humming Kum bay ya and praying to jesus to give them a "sign"
> someone is guilty or innocent?
> * *
> *Hey...they already did that in the Middle Ages and millions were
> persecuted, murdered, burned at the stake, and had pointed spikes shoved up
> their anus...all based on faith in jesus and god as described right in your
> bible...that such human beings were guilty of being heretics. *
> **
> *But, it was not your faith in god that stopped this hideous persecution
> of innocent human beings....It was the Age of Reason and Enlightenment and
> SCIENCE that saved us from your kind of religious and supernatural "faith"
> in god...that murdered millions of innocent people.*
> Please don't have any children either...what you teach them about
> faith...will destroy their ability to trust in the use of reason, science,
> facts, reality, and logic.
> On Thu, Nov 5, 2009 at 4:25 AM, Observer <mayors...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Nov 3, 7:11 pm, A Query <djb...@uow.edu.au> wrote:
>> > BTW, what makes your definition of faith more correct than mine?
>> Observer
>> Faith
>> From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
>> Jump to: navigation, search
>> For other uses, see Faith (disambiguation).
>> Faith is the confident belief or trust in the truth or trustworthiness
>> of a person, idea, or thing.[1][2] The word "faith" can refer to a
>> religion itself or to religion in general. As with "trust", faith
>> involves a concept of future events or outcomes, and is used
>> conversely for a belief "not resting on logical proof or material
>> evidence."[3][4] Informal usage of the word "faith" can be quite
>> broad, and may be used in place of "trust" or "belief."
>> Faith is often used in a religious context, as in theology, where it
>> almost universally refers to a trusting belief in a transcendent
>> reality, or else in a Supreme Being and/or this being's role in the
>> order of transcendent, spiritual things.
>> Faith is in general the persuasion of the mind that a certain
>> statement is true.[5] It is the belief and the assent of the mind to
>> the truth of what is declared by another, based on his or her
>> authority and truthfulness.[6] The English word faith is dated from
>> 1200–50, from the Latin fidem, or fidēs, meaning trust, akin to
>> fīdere, which means to trust.[1]
>> Observer
>> Faith is the belief in that for which there exists no scientifically
>> verifiable substantiating data and is therefore
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