> On Nov 7, 10:19 pm, showmethehoney <alenasha...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> > its totally normal? hmmmm .... i guess if everybody became gay the
> > world would be a happier place. at least it wouldnt be threatened by
> > global warming, cuz before long there wouldnt be any more people to
> > destroy it. talk about a generation gap! ;-)
> On the continuum of sexuality, it is normal. This is not a choice
> that
> gays have. There's is one of attraction, and who am I to say it's not
> normal. I don't walk in their shoes.
> I don't understand your analogy to global warming, sorry.
> > On Nov 7, 3:56 am, philosophy <smwil...@tpg.com.au> wrote:
> > > On Nov 7, 11:34 am, DJ <dr4...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > This subject has been a very hard subject for me and I usually try to
> > > > ignore as much as possible
> > > > but--Maybe this will help many and some--
> > > I think gays have been no more "created" than heterosexuals.
> > > If you think about the Bell Curve, and see the majority of the
> > > population as being heterosexuals, (or maybe even bisexual -
> > > it's your pick), then gays fit on the continuum. Sexuality is
> > > just an expression of the individual. Some are gay, some are
> > > hetero, some are bi, some are lesbian and some are just
> > > plain weird. All I'm saying, is there are a vast number of
> > > ways of expressing ones sexuality. Except when that
> > > sexuality is forced onto another person or child (ie without
> > > consent) it is acceptable. Any person consenting to be
> > > with another, to do what they want, is okay with me. I don't
> > > have to watch, be in the bedroom or even think about it.
> > > It is surely totally normal.- Hide quoted text -
> On Nov 7, 11:39 am, Trance Gemini <trancegemi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Sat, Nov 7, 2009 at 10:55 AM, showmethehoney
> > <alenasha...@googlemail.com>wrote:
> > > what is a fallacy about stating that gay people do not reproduce? i
> > > didnt say i thought anyone was going to become gay, let alone
> > > everyone...
> > You said.
> > ---------------------------------
> > its totally normal? hmmmm .... i guess if everybody became gay the
> > world would be a happier place. at least it wouldnt be threatened by
> > global warming, cuz before long there wouldnt be any more people to
> > destroy it. talk about a generation gap! ;-)
> > ----------------------------------
> > Note the statement "...if everybody became gay...there wouldn't be any
> more
> > people..."
> > That is the slippery slope fallacy.
> > Learn some logic.
> > > On Nov 7, 7:54 am, Trance Gemini <trancegemi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > On Sat, Nov 7, 2009 at 7:19 AM, showmethehoney
> > > > <alenasha...@googlemail.com>wrote:
> > > > > its totally normal? hmmmm .... i guess if everybody became gay the
> > > > > world would be a happier place. at least it wouldnt be threatened
> by
> > > > > global warming, cuz before long there wouldnt be any more people to
> > > > > destroy it. talk about a generation gap! ;-)
> > > > Slippery slope fallacy.
> > > > Not everyone is gay, nor is everyone likely to be gay.
> > > > Learn to argue without resorting to logical fallacies and we might
> > > consider
> > > > taking you seriously.
> > > > > On Nov 7, 3:56 am, philosophy <smwil...@tpg.com.au> wrote:
> > > > > > On Nov 7, 11:34 am, DJ <dr4...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > This subject has been a very hard subject for me and I usually
> try
> > > to
> > > > > > > ignore as much as possible
> > > > > > > but--Maybe this will help many and some--
> > > > > > I think gays have been no more "created" than heterosexuals.
> > > > > > If you think about the Bell Curve, and see the majority of the
> > > > > > population as being heterosexuals, (or maybe even bisexual -
> > > > > > it's your pick), then gays fit on the continuum. Sexuality is
> > > > > > just an expression of the individual. Some are gay, some are
> > > > > > hetero, some are bi, some are lesbian and some are just
> > > > > > plain weird. All I'm saying, is there are a vast number of
> > > > > > ways of expressing ones sexuality. Except when that
> > > > > > sexuality is forced onto another person or child (ie without
> > > > > > consent) it is acceptable. Any person consenting to be
> > > > > > with another, to do what they want, is okay with me. I don't
> > > > > > have to watch, be in the bedroom or even think about it.
> > > > > > It is surely totally normal.
> > > > > --
> > > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> > > Groups
> > > > > "Atheism vs Christianity" group.
> > > > > To post to this group, send email to
> > > > > atheism-vs-christianity@googlegroups.com.
> > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> > > > > atheism-vs-christianity+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com<atheism-vs-christianit y%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups.com>
> <atheism-vs-christianity%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups.com<y%252Bunsubscribe@ googlegroups.com>
> > > > --
> > > > High Priestess of Ribbonology
> > > > God Is A Ribbon!
> > > > All Hail The Great Ribbon In The Skyhttp://
> > > science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2009/15oct_ibex.htm?list1303103- Hide
> quoted
> > > text -
> > > > - Show quoted text -
> > > --
> > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> Groups
> > > "Atheism vs Christianity" group.
> > > To post to this group, send email to
> > > atheism-vs-christianity@googlegroups.com.
> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> > > atheism-vs-christianity+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com<atheism-vs-christianit y%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups.com>
> <atheism-vs-christianity%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups.com<y%252Bunsubscribe@ googlegroups.com>
> > --
> > High Priestess of Ribbonology
> > God Is A Ribbon!
> > All Hail The Great Ribbon In The Skyhttp://
> science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2009/15oct_ibex.htm?list1303103- Hide quoted
> text -
> > - Show quoted text -
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "Atheism vs Christianity" group.
> To post to this group, send email to
> atheism-vs-christianity@googlegroups.com.
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> atheism-vs-christianity+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com<atheism-vs-christianit y%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups.com>
> .
> For more options, visit this group at
> http://groups.google.com/group/atheism-vs-christianity?hl=en.
On Sat, Nov 7, 2009 at 12:52 PM, Bob T. <b...@synapse-cs.com> wrote:
> On Nov 7, 12:35 pm, Doris Ragland <dr4...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > I would feel like my rights would be taken away ...
> Of course you would - that is just how gays feel when people tell them
> that they cannot marry the person they love.
> > what is in the world is in the world...you could shed me a little light
> on what you think about what
> > the Bible thinks about it...
> I think that the Bible reflects the prejudices and ignorance of the
> people who wrote it.
> - Bob T.
> > On Sat, Nov 7, 2009 at 11:26 AM, Bob T. <b...@synapse-cs.com> wrote:
> > > On Nov 7, 11:08 am, Doris Ragland <dr4...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > Ok----now that I'm relax now what ? I would really like to except
> your
> > > > natural process it would be easier...I'm sure I am trying to find
> some
> > > kind
> > > > of Justification's for this subject...I'm not Gay...but I know gays
> > > ...Have
> > > > work around them and have family (one) that is---this is why is
> important
> > > > for me to have some understanding...without being so Judgeing...The
> Gays
> > > > have told me I just don't understand...and I tell them I do
> understand
> > > they
> > > > don't understand....
> > > Well, that's where you go wrong. You don't need to understand - you
> > > just need to accept that some people are different from you.
> > > > so when it comes to my beliefs vs their's---it does cause conflict---
> > > It only causes conflict because you think that people ought to care
> > > what the Bible says about homosexuality.
> > > > I thought shedding some light on this of the origin that it
> > > > has stem from...would help everybody concern ...It is a matter of
> choice
> > > ?
> > > I assume from your name that you are a woman, and from your arguments
> > > that you are heterosexual. How would you feel if the government told
> > > you that you were not allowed to marry a man, that you had to marry a
> > > woman instead? How would you feel if preachers and politicians
> > > denounced your love of men as "unnatural" and "Satanic"?
> > > - Bob T.
> > > > On Fri, Nov 6, 2009 at 9:11 PM, Observer <mayors...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > > > > On Nov 6, 5:34 pm, DJ <dr4...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > This subject has been a very hard subject for me and I usually
> try to
> > > > > > ignore as much as possible
> > > > > > but--Maybe this will help many and some--
> > > > > Observer
> > > > > No one and nothing created gays they are simply part of the natural
> > > > > process. There exists no scientifically verifiable substantiating
> data
> > > > > proving the existence or any act of any god (creator). No creator
> no
> > > > > creation its just that simple that complex and that wonderful..
> > > > > Read this
> > > > > Main article: Homosexuality in animals
> > > > > Two male Mallards, Anas platyrhynchos. Mallards form male-female
> pairs
> > > > > only until the female lays eggs, at which time the male leaves the
> > > > > female. Mallards have rates of male-male sexual activity that are
> > > > > unusually high for birds, in some cases, as high as 19% of all
> pairs
> > > > > in a population.[36]
> > > > > The presence of same-sex sexual behaviour was not scientifically
> > > > > observed on a large scale until recent times. Homosexual behaviour
> > > > > does occur in the animal kingdom outside humans, especially in
> social
> > > > > species, particularly in marine birds and mammals, monkeys, and the
> > > > > great apes. Homosexual behaviour has been observed among 1,500
> > > > > species, and in 500 of those it is well documented.[37]
> > > > > To turn the approach on its head: No species has been found in
> > > > > which homosexual behaviour has not been shown to exist, with the
> > > > > exception of species that never have sex at all, such as sea
> urchins
> > > > > and aphis. Moreover, a part of the animal kingdom is
> hermaphroditic,
> > > > > truly bisexual. For them, homosexuality is not an issue.
> > > > > —[1]
> > > > > Georgetown University professor Janet Mann has specifically
> theorised
> > > > > that homosexual behaviour, at least in dolphins, is an evolutionary
> > > > > advantage that minimizes intraspecies aggression, especially among
> > > > > males.
> > > > > * Male penguin couples have been documented to mate for life,
> > > > > build nests together, and to use a stone as a surrogate egg in
> nesting
> > > > > and brooding. In 2004, the Central Park Zoo in the United States
> > > > > replaced one male couple's stone with a fertilized egg, which the
> > > > > couple then raised as their own offspring.[38] German and Japanese
> > > > > zoos have also reported homosexual behaviour among their penguins.
> > > > > This phenomenon has also been reported at Kelly Tarlton's Aquarium
> in
> > > > > Auckland, New Zealand. "Humans have created the myth that sexuality
> > > > > can be justified only by reproduction, which by definition limits
> it
> > > > > to hetero sex," says Michael Bronski, author of The Pleasure
> > > > > Principle: Culture, Backlash, and the Struggle for Gay Freedom.
> "But
> > > > > here is an animal society that uses homosexuality to improve its
> > > > > social life."
> > > > > * Mounting of one female by another is common among cattle. (See
> > > > > also, Freemartin. Freemartins occur because of clearly causal
> hormonal
> > > > > factors at work during gestation.)
> > > > > * Bonobos in zoos. After studying the primates for his book
> > > > > Bonobo: The Forgotten Ape, primatologist Frans de Waal, a professor
> of
> > > > > psychology at Emory University in Atlanta, says that such
> expressions
> > > > > of intimacy are consistent with the homosexual behaviour of what he
> > > > > terms "the erotic champions of the world." "Same-sex, opposite-sex
> —
> > > > > bonobos just love sex play," de Waal said in an interview. "They
> have
> > > > > so much sex, it gets boring."
> > > > > * Homosexual behaviour in male sheep (found in 6-10% of rams) is
> > > > > associated with variations in cerebral mass distribution and
> chemical
> > > > > activity. A study reported in Endocrinology concluded that
> biological
> > > > > and physiological factors are in effect.[39] These findings are
> > > > > similar to human findings reported by Simon LeVay.
> > > > > Approximately eight percent of [male] rams exhibit sexual
> > > > > preferences [that is, even when given a choice] for male partners
> > > > > (male-oriented rams) in contrast to most rams, which prefer female
> > > > > partners (female-oriented rams). We identified a cell group within
> the
> > > > > medial preoptic area/anterior hypothalamus of age-matched adult
> sheep
> > > > > that was significantly larger in adult rams than in ewes...
> > > > > * Male bighorn sheep are divisible into two kinds: the typical
> > > > > males among whom homosexual behaviour, including intercourse, is
> > > > > common and "effeminate sheep", or "behavioural transvestites",
> which
> > > > > are not known to engage in homosexual behaviour.[4
> > > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> > > Groups
> > > > > "Atheism vs Christianity" group.
> > > > > To post to this group, send email to
> > > > > atheism-vs-christianity@googlegroups.com.
> > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> > > > > atheism-vs-christianity+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com<atheism-vs-christianit y%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups.com>
> <atheism-vs-christianity%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups.com<y%252Bunsubscribe@ googlegroups.com>
> > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> Groups
> > > "Atheism vs Christianity" group.
> > > To post to this group, send email to
> > > atheism-vs-christianity@googlegroups.com.
> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> > > atheism-vs-christianity+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com<atheism-vs-christianit y%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups.com>
> <atheism-vs-christianity%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups.com<y%252Bunsubscribe@ googlegroups.com>
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "Atheism vs Christianity" group.
> To post to this group, send email to
> atheism-vs-christianity@googlegroups.com.
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> atheism-vs-christianity+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com<atheism-vs-christianit y%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups.com>
> .
> For more options, visit this group at
> http://groups.google.com/group/atheism-vs-christianity?hl=en.
On Sat, Nov 7, 2009 at 2:52 PM, Bob T. <b...@synapse-cs.com> wrote:
> On Nov 7, 12:35 pm, Doris Ragland <dr4...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > I would feel like my rights would be taken away ...
> Of course you would - that is just how gays feel when people tell them
> that they cannot marry the person they love.
> > what is in the world is in the world...you could shed me a little light
> on what you think about what
> > the Bible thinks about it...
> I think that the Bible reflects the prejudices and ignorance of the
> people who wrote it.
> - Bob T.
Bob: Here again, I don't blame what is written in the Bible. It is written
for our knowledge and learning. However, mankind always has to feel *good
about themselves* and since sin entered the world - they *feel good* by
putting down someone who is different from what they are.
The Christians of this dispensation have made a horrible mistake in not
realizing that Jesus came to *save us all*. Salvation isn't something we
have to *work for*, it is something we get by believing and accepting that
*God raised Jesus from the dead.* The only thing we have been told to do is
*Thanking God for all things, for this is the will of God concerning us.*
And, I believe that if the Christian church had realized what they are
supposed to be doing, that there would be a lot less *ego* on their
shoulders and more compassion for every living soul.
If you have read my posts on this AvC, you will realize that I state that
homosexuality in the Bible is Apostasy, of not believing in the God of
Abraham.
You see by taking everything *out of context* and not reading a complete
story, mankind has come up with some really weird stuff.
For Sodom you have to begin the story with the angel of the Lord appearing
to Abraham, and Abraham trying to save the righteous out of Sodom. You
should also, in reading the story, see where Lot's daughters were married,
and their husbands would not leave with them.
Also, in reading the story -- we see God's love for humankind. But, it is
Apostasy being spoken about not Homosexuality.
You say -- o.k. then, what about Romans 1. Well, when I was studying the
Bible I asked God why the Jews were set aside that God could come to all. I
felt like I should start reading in Romans -- 1:21 says, *even though they
knew God* -- who knew God in the OT was Israel, *they were not thankful*
(what does Thanksgiving have to do with anything?) *they became vain* and
the rest of Chapter 1 of Romans describes the Apostasy which Israel is still
living in today.
This *Thanksgiving* bit is really interesting - beings *God lives in the
praises of His People*
How many people do you know who say *Thank You Jesus* all the time??
And I agree with you that you should be able to marry who you love. When
two people's hearts are united in *love* - God is love! As a Gentile, I
can never be a Biblical homosexual.
It is not easy to understand what is really written in the Bible and go
against the norms of what I was taught as a child. But, in writing this
out, I realized that I have been *set free* from conventional wisdom of
idiots.
> > On Sat, Nov 7, 2009 at 11:26 AM, Bob T. <b...@synapse-cs.com> wrote:
> > > On Nov 7, 11:08 am, Doris Ragland <dr4...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > Ok----now that I'm relax now what ? I would really like to except
> your
> > > > natural process it would be easier...I'm sure I am trying to find
> some
> > > kind
> > > > of Justification's for this subject...I'm not Gay...but I know gays
> > > ...Have
> > > > work around them and have family (one) that is---this is why is
> important
> > > > for me to have some understanding...without being so Judgeing...The
> Gays
> > > > have told me I just don't understand...and I tell them I do
> understand
> > > they
> > > > don't understand....
> > > Well, that's where you go wrong. You don't need to understand - you
> > > just need to accept that some people are different from you.
> > > > so when it comes to my beliefs vs their's---it does cause conflict---
> > > It only causes conflict because you think that people ought to care
> > > what the Bible says about homosexuality.
> > > > I thought shedding some light on this of the origin that it
> > > > has stem from...would help everybody concern ...It is a matter of
> choice
> > > ?
> > > I assume from your name that you are a woman, and from your arguments
> > > that you are heterosexual. How would you feel if the government told
> > > you that you were not allowed to marry a man, that you had to marry a
> > > woman instead? How would you feel if preachers and politicians
> > > denounced your love of men as "unnatural" and "Satanic"?
> > > - Bob T.
> > > > On Fri, Nov 6, 2009 at 9:11 PM, Observer <mayors...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > > > > On Nov 6, 5:34 pm, DJ <dr4...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > This subject has been a very hard subject for me and I usually
> try to
> > > > > > ignore as much as possible
> > > > > > but--Maybe this will help many and some--
> > > > > Observer
> > > > > No one and nothing created gays they are simply part of the natural
> > > > > process. There exists no scientifically verifiable substantiating
> data
> > > > > proving the existence or any act of any god (creator). No creator
> no
> > > > > creation its just that simple that complex and that wonderful..
> > > > > Read this
> > > > > Main article: Homosexuality in animals
> > > > > Two male Mallards, Anas platyrhynchos. Mallards form male-female
> pairs
> > > > > only until the female lays eggs, at which time the male leaves the
> > > > > female. Mallards have rates of male-male sexual activity that are
> > > > > unusually high for birds, in some cases, as high as 19% of all
> pairs
> > > > > in a population.[36]
> > > > > The presence of same-sex sexual behaviour was not scientifically
> > > > > observed on a large scale until recent times. Homosexual behaviour
> > > > > does occur in the animal kingdom outside humans, especially in
> social
> > > > > species, particularly in marine birds and mammals, monkeys, and the
> > > > > great apes. Homosexual behaviour has been observed among 1,500
> > > > > species, and in 500 of those it is well documented.[37]
> > > > > To turn the approach on its head: No species has been found in
> > > > > which homosexual behaviour has not been shown to exist, with the
> > > > > exception of species that never have sex at all, such as sea
> urchins
> > > > > and aphis. Moreover, a part of the animal kingdom is
> hermaphroditic,
> > > > > truly bisexual. For them, homosexuality is not an issue.
> > > > > —[1]
> > > > > Georgetown University professor Janet Mann has specifically
> theorised
> > > > > that homosexual behaviour, at least in dolphins, is an evolutionary
> > > > > advantage that minimizes intraspecies aggression, especially among
> > > > > males.
> > > > > * Male penguin couples have been documented to mate for life,
> > > > > build nests together, and to use a stone as a surrogate egg in
> nesting
> > > > > and brooding. In 2004, the Central Park Zoo in the United States
> > > > > replaced one male couple's stone with a fertilized egg, which the
> > > > > couple then raised as their own offspring.[38] German and Japanese
> > > > > zoos have also reported homosexual behaviour among their penguins.
> > > > > This phenomenon has also been reported at Kelly Tarlton's Aquarium
> in
> > > > > Auckland, New Zealand. "Humans have created the myth that sexuality
> > > > > can be justified only by reproduction, which by definition limits
> it
> > > > > to hetero sex," says Michael Bronski, author of The Pleasure
> > > > > Principle: Culture, Backlash, and the Struggle for Gay Freedom.
> "But
> > > > > here is an animal society that uses homosexuality to improve its
> > > > > social life."
> > > > > * Mounting of one female by another is common among cattle. (See
> > > > > also, Freemartin. Freemartins occur because of clearly causal
> hormonal
> > > > > factors at work during gestation.)
> > > > > * Bonobos in zoos. After studying the primates for his book
> > > > > Bonobo: The Forgotten Ape, primatologist Frans de Waal, a professor
> of
> > > > > psychology at Emory University in Atlanta, says that such
> expressions
> > > > > of intimacy are consistent with the homosexual behaviour of what he
> > > > > terms "the erotic champions of the world." "Same-sex, opposite-sex
> —
> > > > > bonobos just love sex play," de Waal said in an interview. "They
> have
> > > > > so much sex, it gets boring."
> > > > > * Homosexual behaviour in male sheep (found in 6-10% of rams) is
> > > > > associated with variations in cerebral mass distribution and
> chemical
> > > > > activity. A study reported in Endocrinology concluded that
> biological
> > > > > and physiological factors are in effect.[39] These findings are
> > > > > similar to human findings reported by Simon LeVay.
> > > > > Approximately eight percent of [male] rams exhibit sexual
> > > > > preferences [that is, even when given a choice] for male partners
> > > > > (male-oriented rams) in contrast to most rams, which prefer female
> > > > > partners (female-oriented rams). We identified a cell group within
> the
> > > > > medial preoptic area/anterior hypothalamus of age-matched adult
> sheep
> > > > > that was significantly larger in adult rams than in ewes...
> > > > > * Male bighorn sheep are divisible into two kinds: the typical
> > > > > males among whom homosexual behaviour, including intercourse, is
> > > > > common and "effeminate sheep", or "behavioural transvestites",
> which
> > > > > are not known to engage in homosexual behaviour.[4
On Nov 7, 12:11 am, Observer <mayors...@gmail.com> wrote:
> There exists no scientifically verifiable substantiating data
> proving the existence or any act of any god (creator).
Science is a wonderful thing, but the fact that it is not adequate to
objectively establish the truth of God's existence is not a fault of
the premise ("it is objectively true that God exists"), rather it is
the limitation of science. Its a rigged game if you measure God's
existence by using methods and processes that are inappropriate. Its
like using a thermometer to measure the radioactivity of a sample, and
concluding that there is no radiation because there was no
measurement.
On Mon, Nov 16, 2009 at 3:36 PM, Brock <brockor...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Nov 7, 12:11 am, Observer <mayors...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > There exists no scientifically verifiable substantiating data
> > proving the existence or any act of any god (creator).
> Science is a wonderful thing, but the fact that it is not adequate to
> objectively establish the truth of God's existence is not a fault of
> the premise ("it is objectively true that God exists"), rather it is
> the limitation of science. Its a rigged game if you measure God's
> existence by using methods and processes that are inappropriate. Its
> like using a thermometer to measure the radioactivity of a sample, and
> concluding that there is no radiation because there was no
> measurement.
> Regards,
> Brock
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "Atheism vs Christianity" group.
> To post to this group, send email to
> atheism-vs-christianity@googlegroups.com.
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> atheism-vs-christianity+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com<atheism-vs-christianit y%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups.com>
> .
> For more options, visit this group at
> http://groups.google.com/group/atheism-vs-christianity?hl=.
|
