On Oct 29, 11:11 am, thea <thea.n...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thu, Oct 29, 2009 at 12:08 PM, Sebastian <mezna...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > If what you are saying is true, then it seems to me that faith here on
> > Earth has little consequence. I am sure that almost any atheist who'd
> > find that they were wrong and that christianity was right would accept
> > their failure and change their mind.
> Nope! People do not change their minds because of something - however right
> or wrong.
> People only become Christians when Jesus allows their minds to believe that
> HE Exists.
LL: Then people have no control over it.
> And, this only happens when someone wants to find God. When someone wants
> to find God, and are willing to search with their whole heart - they find
> the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Israel, and find abundance in every area of
> their lives.
LL: Still sounds like a ridiculous system to me. All that finding, and
wanting and willingness. It could have been made so much easier and
more efficient without the big game plan.
> > On Oct 29, 4:52 pm, thea <thea.n...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > I believe that there is much we do not know. We do not know if Jesus
> > will
> > > reveal himself to all (I personally believe that HE will), at a future
> > time
> > > - in which they can make the choice to choose Jesus over Satan.
> > > I do believe that right now, for us --Today is the day of salvation - and
> > > may be the only time we have to accept Jesus as our Saviour.
> > > On Tue, Oct 27, 2009 at 9:34 AM, Sebastian <mezna...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > I see. Of course we are still missing all those between 30 CE and the
> > > > time when Jesus returns that have not heard of the bible and will go
> > > > to hell as a result. They have not been proved much. What worries me
> > > > is that if god is perfect and all, why can't he just deliver his
> > > > message to everyone individually in a way that can be understood
> > > > perfectly? Why do we need a 2000 year old book written about a person
> > > > that no writer of the book is supposed to know personally and that
> > > > some people do not even accept existed? And then there is a bunch of
> > > > scientific evidence that shows that the world is not as described in
> > > > there.
> > > > After a full review of the book and the world, what should remain?
> > > > Disbelief and scepticism.
> > > > On Oct 27, 12:02 am, thea <thea.n...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > On Mon, Oct 26, 2009 at 9:59 AM, Sebastian <mezna...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > > > > > I see. So then for those it was not a requirement to have believed
> > in
> > > > > > god during their lives in order to go to heaven. Would you then say
> > > > > > that this requirement does not apply to anyone who has not heard of
> > > > > > the bible and that they go to heaven no matter what?
> > > > > No, they do not go to heaven no matter what. Jesus only descended
> > into
> > > > hell
> > > > > once -- from then on human beings must accept Jesus the same as you
> > and
> > > > me.
> > > > > They have to accept the Savior. Jesus preached to the souls in hell
> > > > before
> > > > > God raised Him from the dead.
> > > > > The human beings who accepted what HE said, were raised with Him.
> > > > > Since we do have the Bible and knowledge of Jesus being on earth -
> > and
> > > > the
> > > > > Grace of God to us for the forgiveness of our sins -- we are plain
> > stupid
> > > > if
> > > > > we don't accept the free gift of salvation that God is handing to us.
> > > > > The problem today is that there seems to be no one who truly
> > understands
> > > > the
> > > > > *rightly dividing of the Word of Truth (the Bible)* and so with the
> > usual
> > > > > goodness of *head knowledge* they just mix the whole thing up - all
> > > > > together, so you don't know who is being spoken to - and miss the
> > > > blessing
> > > > > that we all can have in the here and now when we understand that
> > there
> > > > are
> > > > > differences in the Bible.
> > > > > > On Oct 26, 2:50 pm, thea <thea.n...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > On Mon, Oct 26, 2009 at 9:25 AM, Sebastian <mezna...@gmail.com>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > Let's assume everything you are saying is true and let's say
> > that
> > > > > > > > jesus will come back in 2357 (or whatever is your favourite
> > guess).
> > > > > > > > Then the only people to whom god "proved" that they need to
> > come to
> > > > > > > > him are those between 30 CE and 2357 CE. How about all those
> > > > between 2
> > > > > > > > million BCE and 30 CE. What did they learn? They were unworthy
> > of
> > > > > > > > salvation?
> > > > > > > When Jesus died and descended into hell -- he preached to all --
> > and
> > > > many
> > > > > > > arose and walked on the earth when Jesus arose from the dead.
> > And,
> > > > then
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > ones who accepted Jesus as Messiah went to heaven when HE did at
> > the
> > > > > > > resurrection. Now yes, this is what the Bible says. So those
> > who
> > > > lived
> > > > > > > millions of years ago, also were given a chance to believe in the
> > God
> > > > > > that
> > > > > > > made the heavens and the earth.
> > > > > > > > On Oct 26, 1:48 pm, thea <thea.n...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > On Mon, Oct 26, 2009 at 8:39 AM, showmethehoney
> > > > > > > > > <alenasha...@googlemail.com>wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > the deep mystery is what you are trying to say ;-)
> > > > > > > > > > On Oct 26, 12:11 am, KingOfTheApes <
> > > > comandante.ban...@yahoo.com>
> > > > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > You know the first coming of Jesus, and he accomplished
> > > > nothing.
> > > > > > And
> > > > > > > > > > > then in the second coming, he's really getting the world
> > in
> > > > > > shape...
> > > > > > > > > > > Why is that?
> > > > > > > > > > > And then all those years in between make people impatient
> > and
> > > > > > wonder
> > > > > > > > > > > if he's real at all. That's a deep mystery.
> > > > > > > > > I don't think it is a mystery why he has waiting all of 2,000
> > or
> > > > more
> > > > > > > > > years.
> > > > > > > > > In understanding prophecy we have to understand the
> > dispensation,
> > > > > > which
> > > > > > > > > isn't exactly a length of time, but it is the time frame in
> > which
> > > > God
> > > > > > > > dealt
> > > > > > > > > with the human race a certain way in order to prove that we
> > have
> > > > to
> > > > > > come
> > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > HIM for salvation.
> > > > > > > > > This dispensation of Grace in which we now live -- where all
> > > > human
> > > > > > beings
> > > > > > > > > are being told that all they have to do to be saved is
> > believe
> > > > that
> > > > > > *God
> > > > > > > > > raised Jesus from the dead.*
> > > > > > > > > Do you realize that the Koran has 110 mentions of Jesus?
> > --------------------------------------------------------------------------- -----
> > > > > > > > > > > How to tell if people descend from the monkey: Give them
> > a
> > > > > > banana!
On Thu, Oct 29, 2009 at 4:46 PM, LL <llp...@aol.com> wrote:
> On Oct 29, 9:59 am, thea <thea.n...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Tue, Oct 27, 2009 at 11:50 AM, LL <llp...@aol.com> wrote:
> > > On Oct 26, 5:02 pm, thea <thea.n...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > On Mon, Oct 26, 2009 at 9:59 AM, Sebastian <mezna...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > > > > I see. So then for those it was not a requirement to have believed
> in
> > > > > god during their lives in order to go to heaven. Would you then say
> > > > > that this requirement does not apply to anyone who has not heard of
> > > > > the bible and that they go to heaven no matter what?
> > > > No, they do not go to heaven no matter what. Jesus only descended
> into
> > > hell
> > > > once -- from then on human beings must accept Jesus the same as you
> and
> > > me.
> > > > They have to accept the Savior. Jesus preached to the souls in hell
> > > before
> > > > God raised Him from the dead.
> > > > The human beings who accepted what HE said, were raised with Him.
> > > > Since we do have the Bible and knowledge of Jesus being on earth -
> and
> > > the
> > > > Grace of God to us for the forgiveness of our sins -- we are plain
> stupid
> > > if
> > > > we don't accept the free gift of salvation that God is handing to us.
> > > > The problem today is that there seems to be no one who truly
> understands
> > > the
> > > > *rightly dividing of the Word of Truth (the Bible)* and so with the
> usual
> > > > goodness of *head knowledge* they just mix the whole thing up - all
> > > > together, so you don't know who is being spoken to - and miss the
> > > blessing
> > > > that we all can have in the here and now when we understand that
> there
> > > are
> > > > differences in the Bible.
> > > LL: Don't you think that if your god wanted people to understand and
> > > believe in all this he would have made it clearer? Why the unending
> > > complications and misinterpretations?
> > Because we have an adversary called Satan who doesn't want us to see the
> > simplicity of the Gospel and become Christians. Satan wants us to
> believe
> > his lie which he gave to Adam and Eve in the Garden. Satan wants us only
> to
> > believe that what we can see with our natural sight is all we get.
> LL: But where did Satan come from? Who created Satan?
God created Satan. Satan was the most perfect, more beautiful and more
perfect than any other created being. He could walk on the coals of the
altar of the fire of God. But sin was found in Him, when Satan decided that
he would be like the most High. Satan said, *I Will*
and God said - No you won't.
This is the reason that the only way we get into heaven is through God's
Son, Jesus. Because we are covered by the Blood of Jesus - God the Father
accepts us in Jesus Christ.
We will never be able to commit Satan's sin in the eons of time to come.
> > However, Jesus said we could worship Him in Spirit and in Truth.
> > It is not easy to be a Christian or to follow after the Spirit. We are
> > *hard wired* to do things man's way instead of God's way.
> LL: Are you saying that god created us "hard wired" to do things man's
> way instead of god's way? Why would a creator do such a thing?
God allowed Adam and Eve to have dominion over everything in the garden.
When they sinned, it caused all of us to be hard wired to sin. In fact, we
are created in sin because of Adam and Eve.
In understanding how God chose us from Before the Foundation of the World,
and made the way for us to be in Christ Jesus in order to have someone fill
up the space left in heaven when Satan was kicked out.
> When we do get
> > past the *hard wiring* and start walking after the Spirit, we find that
> > Jesus is right there to lead the way.
> LL: There would be no need for Jesus if god hadn't set up the system
> is such a convoluted way in the first place. We'd have nothing to be
> saved from.
Satan made the decision that he would be like the most High God. God kicked
him out of heaven. Everything in nature teaches that there cannot be a
vacuum. So God made a way for His human beings to take Satan's place in
heaven.
Adam and Eve proved that we have the ability to either accept or reject
God's way.
> > When you tell a lie - have you ever gone back and said you were sorry for
> > lying. Those half-truths that you on occasion say - do you apologize for
> > lying? You see it is not even easy to know when we are lying without
> > becoming a Christian.
> LL: I was a Christian and it seemed odd to me then. All that game-
> playing!
Well, it is not game-playing. It's called having clear conscience.
> And, then you will know -- oh yeah! condemnation
> > comes right away - and we know to keep things right - because our
> > consciouses bother us otherwise.
> LL: Who created our conscious minds? And why?
God created human beings so that we could walk and talk with Him!
> > > > > On Oct 26, 2:50 pm, thea <thea.n...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > On Mon, Oct 26, 2009 at 9:25 AM, Sebastian <mezna...@gmail.com>
> > > wrote:
> > > > > > > Let's assume everything you are saying is true and let's say
> that
> > > > > > > jesus will come back in 2357 (or whatever is your favourite
> guess).
> > > > > > > Then the only people to whom god "proved" that they need to
> come to
> > > > > > > him are those between 30 CE and 2357 CE. How about all those
> > > between 2
> > > > > > > million BCE and 30 CE. What did they learn? They were unworthy
> of
> > > > > > > salvation?
> > > > > > When Jesus died and descended into hell -- he preached to all --
> and
> > > many
> > > > > > arose and walked on the earth when Jesus arose from the dead.
> And,
> > > then
> > > > > the
> > > > > > ones who accepted Jesus as Messiah went to heaven when HE did at
> the
> > > > > > resurrection. Now yes, this is what the Bible says. So those
> who
> > > lived
> > > > > > millions of years ago, also were given a chance to believe in the
> God
> > > > > that
> > > > > > made the heavens and the earth.
> > > > > > > On Oct 26, 1:48 pm, thea <thea.n...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > > On Mon, Oct 26, 2009 at 8:39 AM, showmethehoney
> > > > > > > > <alenasha...@googlemail.com>wrote:
> > > > > > > > > the deep mystery is what you are trying to say ;-)
> > > > > > > > > On Oct 26, 12:11 am, KingOfTheApes <
> > > comandante.ban...@yahoo.com>
> > > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > You know the first coming of Jesus, and he accomplished
> > > nothing.
> > > > > And
> > > > > > > > > > then in the second coming, he's really getting the world
> in
> > > > > shape...
> > > > > > > > > > Why is that?
> > > > > > > > > > And then all those years in between make people impatient
> and
> > > > > wonder
> > > > > > > > > > if he's real at all. That's a deep mystery.
> > > > > > > > I don't think it is a mystery why he has waiting all of 2,000
> or
> > > more
> > > > > > > > years.
> > > > > > > > In understanding prophecy we have to understand the
> dispensation,
> > > > > which
> > > > > > > > isn't exactly a length of time, but it is the time frame in
> which
> > > God
> > > > > > > dealt
> > > > > > > > with the human race a certain way in order to prove that we
> have
> > > to
> > > > > come
> > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > HIM for salvation.
> > > > > > > > This dispensation of Grace in which we now live -- where all
> > > human
> > > > > beings
> > > > > > > > are being told that all they have to do to be saved is
> believe
> > > that
> > > > > *God
> > > > > > > > raised Jesus from the dead.*
> > > > > > > > Do you realize that the Koran has 110 mentions of Jesus?
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > -----
> > > > > > > > > > How to tell if people descend from the monkey: Give them
> a
> > > > > banana!
On Mon, Oct 26, 2009 at 6:48 AM, thea <thea.n...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Mon, Oct 26, 2009 at 8:39 AM, showmethehoney <
> alenasha...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>> the deep mystery is what you are trying to say ;-)
>> On Oct 26, 12:11 am, KingOfTheApes <comandante.ban...@yahoo.com>
>> wrote:
>> > You know the first coming of Jesus, and he accomplished nothing. And
>> > then in the second coming, he's really getting the world in shape...
>> > Why is that?
>> > And then all those years in between make people impatient and wonder
>> > if he's real at all. That's a deep mystery.
> I don't think it is a mystery why he has waiting all of 2,000 or more
> years.
> In understanding prophecy we have to understand the dispensation, which
> isn't exactly a length of time, but it is the time frame in which God dealt
> with the human race a certain way in order to prove that we have to come to
> HIM for salvation.
> This dispensation of Grace in which we now live -- where all human beings
> are being told that all they have to do to be saved is believe that *God
> raised Jesus from the dead.*
> Do you realize that the Koran has 110 mentions of Jesus?
>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------- -----
>> > How to tell if people descend from the monkey: Give them a banana!
If god exists, I want to find it (him/her), thea. I am not adamant
that no god can possibly exist. But so far, if you are right, Jesus
has decided not to allow my mind to believe despite the fact that I
want to find god (if it exists).
On Oct 29, 6:11 pm, thea <thea.n...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thu, Oct 29, 2009 at 12:08 PM, Sebastian <mezna...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > If what you are saying is true, then it seems to me that faith here on
> > Earth has little consequence. I am sure that almost any atheist who'd
> > find that they were wrong and that christianity was right would accept
> > their failure and change their mind.
> Nope! People do not change their minds because of something - however right
> or wrong.
> People only become Christians when Jesus allows their minds to believe that
> HE Exists.
> And, this only happens when someone wants to find God. When someone wants
> to find God, and are willing to search with their whole heart - they find
> the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Israel, and find abundance in every area of
> their lives.
> > On Oct 29, 4:52 pm, thea <thea.n...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > I believe that there is much we do not know. We do not know if Jesus
> > will
> > > reveal himself to all (I personally believe that HE will), at a future
> > time
> > > - in which they can make the choice to choose Jesus over Satan.
> > > I do believe that right now, for us --Today is the day of salvation - and
> > > may be the only time we have to accept Jesus as our Saviour.
> > > On Tue, Oct 27, 2009 at 9:34 AM, Sebastian <mezna...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > I see. Of course we are still missing all those between 30 CE and the
> > > > time when Jesus returns that have not heard of the bible and will go
> > > > to hell as a result. They have not been proved much. What worries me
> > > > is that if god is perfect and all, why can't he just deliver his
> > > > message to everyone individually in a way that can be understood
> > > > perfectly? Why do we need a 2000 year old book written about a person
> > > > that no writer of the book is supposed to know personally and that
> > > > some people do not even accept existed? And then there is a bunch of
> > > > scientific evidence that shows that the world is not as described in
> > > > there.
> > > > After a full review of the book and the world, what should remain?
> > > > Disbelief and scepticism.
> > > > On Oct 27, 12:02 am, thea <thea.n...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > On Mon, Oct 26, 2009 at 9:59 AM, Sebastian <mezna...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > > > > > I see. So then for those it was not a requirement to have believed
> > in
> > > > > > god during their lives in order to go to heaven. Would you then say
> > > > > > that this requirement does not apply to anyone who has not heard of
> > > > > > the bible and that they go to heaven no matter what?
> > > > > No, they do not go to heaven no matter what. Jesus only descended
> > into
> > > > hell
> > > > > once -- from then on human beings must accept Jesus the same as you
> > and
> > > > me.
> > > > > They have to accept the Savior. Jesus preached to the souls in hell
> > > > before
> > > > > God raised Him from the dead.
> > > > > The human beings who accepted what HE said, were raised with Him.
> > > > > Since we do have the Bible and knowledge of Jesus being on earth -
> > and
> > > > the
> > > > > Grace of God to us for the forgiveness of our sins -- we are plain
> > stupid
> > > > if
> > > > > we don't accept the free gift of salvation that God is handing to us.
> > > > > The problem today is that there seems to be no one who truly
> > understands
> > > > the
> > > > > *rightly dividing of the Word of Truth (the Bible)* and so with the
> > usual
> > > > > goodness of *head knowledge* they just mix the whole thing up - all
> > > > > together, so you don't know who is being spoken to - and miss the
> > > > blessing
> > > > > that we all can have in the here and now when we understand that
> > there
> > > > are
> > > > > differences in the Bible.
> > > > > > On Oct 26, 2:50 pm, thea <thea.n...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > On Mon, Oct 26, 2009 at 9:25 AM, Sebastian <mezna...@gmail.com>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > Let's assume everything you are saying is true and let's say
> > that
> > > > > > > > jesus will come back in 2357 (or whatever is your favourite
> > guess).
> > > > > > > > Then the only people to whom god "proved" that they need to
> > come to
> > > > > > > > him are those between 30 CE and 2357 CE. How about all those
> > > > between 2
> > > > > > > > million BCE and 30 CE. What did they learn? They were unworthy
> > of
> > > > > > > > salvation?
> > > > > > > When Jesus died and descended into hell -- he preached to all --
> > and
> > > > many
> > > > > > > arose and walked on the earth when Jesus arose from the dead.
> > And,
> > > > then
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > ones who accepted Jesus as Messiah went to heaven when HE did at
> > the
> > > > > > > resurrection. Now yes, this is what the Bible says. So those
> > who
> > > > lived
> > > > > > > millions of years ago, also were given a chance to believe in the
> > God
> > > > > > that
> > > > > > > made the heavens and the earth.
> > > > > > > > On Oct 26, 1:48 pm, thea <thea.n...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > On Mon, Oct 26, 2009 at 8:39 AM, showmethehoney
> > > > > > > > > <alenasha...@googlemail.com>wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > the deep mystery is what you are trying to say ;-)
> > > > > > > > > > On Oct 26, 12:11 am, KingOfTheApes <
> > > > comandante.ban...@yahoo.com>
> > > > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > You know the first coming of Jesus, and he accomplished
> > > > nothing.
> > > > > > And
> > > > > > > > > > > then in the second coming, he's really getting the world
> > in
> > > > > > shape...
> > > > > > > > > > > Why is that?
> > > > > > > > > > > And then all those years in between make people impatient
> > and
> > > > > > wonder
> > > > > > > > > > > if he's real at all. That's a deep mystery.
> > > > > > > > > I don't think it is a mystery why he has waiting all of 2,000
> > or
> > > > more
> > > > > > > > > years.
> > > > > > > > > In understanding prophecy we have to understand the
> > dispensation,
> > > > > > which
> > > > > > > > > isn't exactly a length of time, but it is the time frame in
> > which
> > > > God
> > > > > > > > dealt
> > > > > > > > > with the human race a certain way in order to prove that we
> > have
> > > > to
> > > > > > come
> > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > HIM for salvation.
> > > > > > > > > This dispensation of Grace in which we now live -- where all
> > > > human
> > > > > > beings
> > > > > > > > > are being told that all they have to do to be saved is
> > believe
> > > > that
> > > > > > *God
> > > > > > > > > raised Jesus from the dead.*
> > > > > > > > > Do you realize that the Koran has 110 mentions of Jesus?
> > --------------------------------------------------------------------------- -----
> > > > > > > > > > > How to tell if people descend from the monkey: Give them
> > a
> > > > > > banana!
On Fri, Oct 30, 2009 at 9:02 AM, Sebastian <mezna...@gmail.com> wrote:
> If god exists, I want to find it (him/her), thea. I am not adamant
> that no god can possibly exist. But so far, if you are right, Jesus
> has decided not to allow my mind to believe despite the fact that I
> want to find god (if it exists).
> On Oct 29, 6:11 pm, thea <thea.n...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Thu, Oct 29, 2009 at 12:08 PM, Sebastian <mezna...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > If what you are saying is true, then it seems to me that faith here on
> > > Earth has little consequence. I am sure that almost any atheist who'd
> > > find that they were wrong and that christianity was right would accept
> > > their failure and change their mind.
> > Nope! People do not change their minds because of something - however
> right
> > or wrong.
> > People only become Christians when Jesus allows their minds to believe
> that
> > HE Exists.
> > And, this only happens when someone wants to find God. When someone
> wants
> > to find God, and are willing to search with their whole heart - they find
> > the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Israel, and find abundance in every area
> of
> > their lives.
> > > On Oct 29, 4:52 pm, thea <thea.n...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > I believe that there is much we do not know. We do not know if Jesus
> > > will
> > > > reveal himself to all (I personally believe that HE will), at a
> future
> > > time
> > > > - in which they can make the choice to choose Jesus over Satan.
> > > > I do believe that right now, for us --Today is the day of salvation -
> and
> > > > may be the only time we have to accept Jesus as our Saviour.
> > > > On Tue, Oct 27, 2009 at 9:34 AM, Sebastian <mezna...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > > > > I see. Of course we are still missing all those between 30 CE and
> the
> > > > > time when Jesus returns that have not heard of the bible and will
> go
> > > > > to hell as a result. They have not been proved much. What worries
> me
> > > > > is that if god is perfect and all, why can't he just deliver his
> > > > > message to everyone individually in a way that can be understood
> > > > > perfectly? Why do we need a 2000 year old book written about a
> person
> > > > > that no writer of the book is supposed to know personally and that
> > > > > some people do not even accept existed? And then there is a bunch
> of
> > > > > scientific evidence that shows that the world is not as described
> in
> > > > > there.
> > > > > After a full review of the book and the world, what should remain?
> > > > > Disbelief and scepticism.
> > > > > On Oct 27, 12:02 am, thea <thea.n...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > On Mon, Oct 26, 2009 at 9:59 AM, Sebastian <mezna...@gmail.com>
> > > wrote:
> > > > > > > I see. So then for those it was not a requirement to have
> believed
> > > in
> > > > > > > god during their lives in order to go to heaven. Would you then
> say
> > > > > > > that this requirement does not apply to anyone who has not
> heard of
> > > > > > > the bible and that they go to heaven no matter what?
> > > > > > No, they do not go to heaven no matter what. Jesus only
> descended
> > > into
> > > > > hell
> > > > > > once -- from then on human beings must accept Jesus the same as
> you
> > > and
> > > > > me.
> > > > > > They have to accept the Savior. Jesus preached to the souls in
> hell
> > > > > before
> > > > > > God raised Him from the dead.
> > > > > > The human beings who accepted what HE said, were raised with Him.
> > > > > > Since we do have the Bible and knowledge of Jesus being on earth
> -
> > > and
> > > > > the
> > > > > > Grace of God to us for the forgiveness of our sins -- we are
> plain
> > > stupid
> > > > > if
> > > > > > we don't accept the free gift of salvation that God is handing to
> us.
> > > > > > The problem today is that there seems to be no one who truly
> > > understands
> > > > > the
> > > > > > *rightly dividing of the Word of Truth (the Bible)* and so with
> the
> > > usual
> > > > > > goodness of *head knowledge* they just mix the whole thing up -
> all
> > > > > > together, so you don't know who is being spoken to - and miss the
> > > > > blessing
> > > > > > that we all can have in the here and now when we understand that
> > > there
> > > > > are
> > > > > > differences in the Bible.
> > > > > > > On Oct 26, 2:50 pm, thea <thea.n...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > > On Mon, Oct 26, 2009 at 9:25 AM, Sebastian <
> mezna...@gmail.com>
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > Let's assume everything you are saying is true and let's
> say
> > > that
> > > > > > > > > jesus will come back in 2357 (or whatever is your favourite
> > > guess).
> > > > > > > > > Then the only people to whom god "proved" that they need to
> > > come to
> > > > > > > > > him are those between 30 CE and 2357 CE. How about all
> those
> > > > > between 2
> > > > > > > > > million BCE and 30 CE. What did they learn? They were
> unworthy
> > > of
> > > > > > > > > salvation?
> > > > > > > > When Jesus died and descended into hell -- he preached to all
> --
> > > and
> > > > > many
> > > > > > > > arose and walked on the earth when Jesus arose from the dead.
> > > And,
> > > > > then
> > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > ones who accepted Jesus as Messiah went to heaven when HE did
> at
> > > the
> > > > > > > > resurrection. Now yes, this is what the Bible says. So
> those
> > > who
> > > > > lived
> > > > > > > > millions of years ago, also were given a chance to believe in
> the
> > > God
> > > > > > > that
> > > > > > > > made the heavens and the earth.
> > > > > > > > > On Oct 26, 1:48 pm, thea <thea.n...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Oct 26, 2009 at 8:39 AM, showmethehoney
> > > > > > > > > > <alenasha...@googlemail.com>wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > the deep mystery is what you are trying to say ;-)
> > > > > > > > > > > On Oct 26, 12:11 am, KingOfTheApes <
> > > > > comandante.ban...@yahoo.com>
> > > > > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > You know the first coming of Jesus, and he
> accomplished
> > > > > nothing.
> > > > > > > And
> > > > > > > > > > > > then in the second coming, he's really getting the
> world
> > > in
> > > > > > > shape...
> > > > > > > > > > > > Why is that?
> > > > > > > > > > > > And then all those years in between make people
> impatient
> > > and
> > > > > > > wonder
> > > > > > > > > > > > if he's real at all. That's a deep mystery.
> > > > > > > > > > I don't think it is a mystery why he has waiting all of
> 2,000
> > > or
> > > > > more
> > > > > > > > > > years.
> > > > > > > > > > In understanding prophecy we have to understand the
> > > dispensation,
> > > > > > > which
> > > > > > > > > > isn't exactly a length of time, but it is the time frame
> in
> > > which
> > > > > God
> > > > > > > > > dealt
> > > > > > > > > > with the human race a certain way in order to prove that
> we
> > > have
> > > > > to
> > > > > > > come
> > > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > > HIM for salvation.
> > > > > > > > > > This dispensation of Grace in which we now live -- where
> all
> > > > > human
> > > > > > > beings
> > > > > > > > > > are being told that all they have to do to be saved is
> > > believe
> > > > > that
> > > > > > > *God
> > > > > > > > > > raised Jesus from the dead.*
> > > > > > > > > > Do you realize that the Koran has 110 mentions of Jesus?
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------- -----
> > > > > > > > > > > > How to tell if people descend from the monkey: Give
> them
> > > a
> > > > > > > banana!
Well I am keeping my mind open to god's existence. I believe that any
non-contradictory version of god CAN exist (in other words, I neither
believe nor disbelieve). I am an atheist with regards to any
contradictory version, however.
On Oct 30, 2:05 pm, thea <thea.n...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Fri, Oct 30, 2009 at 9:02 AM, Sebastian <mezna...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > If god exists, I want to find it (him/her), thea. I am not adamant
> > that no god can possibly exist. But so far, if you are right, Jesus
> > has decided not to allow my mind to believe despite the fact that I
> > want to find god (if it exists).
> How so??
> > On Oct 29, 6:11 pm, thea <thea.n...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > On Thu, Oct 29, 2009 at 12:08 PM, Sebastian <mezna...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > If what you are saying is true, then it seems to me that faith here on
> > > > Earth has little consequence. I am sure that almost any atheist who'd
> > > > find that they were wrong and that christianity was right would accept
> > > > their failure and change their mind.
> > > Nope! People do not change their minds because of something - however
> > right
> > > or wrong.
> > > People only become Christians when Jesus allows their minds to believe
> > that
> > > HE Exists.
> > > And, this only happens when someone wants to find God. When someone
> > wants
> > > to find God, and are willing to search with their whole heart - they find
> > > the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Israel, and find abundance in every area
> > of
> > > their lives.
> > > > On Oct 29, 4:52 pm, thea <thea.n...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > I believe that there is much we do not know. We do not know if Jesus
> > > > will
> > > > > reveal himself to all (I personally believe that HE will), at a
> > future
> > > > time
> > > > > - in which they can make the choice to choose Jesus over Satan.
> > > > > I do believe that right now, for us --Today is the day of salvation -
> > and
> > > > > may be the only time we have to accept Jesus as our Saviour.
> > > > > On Tue, Oct 27, 2009 at 9:34 AM, Sebastian <mezna...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > > > > > I see. Of course we are still missing all those between 30 CE and
> > the
> > > > > > time when Jesus returns that have not heard of the bible and will
> > go
> > > > > > to hell as a result. They have not been proved much. What worries
> > me
> > > > > > is that if god is perfect and all, why can't he just deliver his
> > > > > > message to everyone individually in a way that can be understood
> > > > > > perfectly? Why do we need a 2000 year old book written about a
> > person
> > > > > > that no writer of the book is supposed to know personally and that
> > > > > > some people do not even accept existed? And then there is a bunch
> > of
> > > > > > scientific evidence that shows that the world is not as described
> > in
> > > > > > there.
> > > > > > After a full review of the book and the world, what should remain?
> > > > > > Disbelief and scepticism.
> > > > > > On Oct 27, 12:02 am, thea <thea.n...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > On Mon, Oct 26, 2009 at 9:59 AM, Sebastian <mezna...@gmail.com>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > I see. So then for those it was not a requirement to have
> > believed
> > > > in
> > > > > > > > god during their lives in order to go to heaven. Would you then
> > say
> > > > > > > > that this requirement does not apply to anyone who has not
> > heard of
> > > > > > > > the bible and that they go to heaven no matter what?
> > > > > > > No, they do not go to heaven no matter what. Jesus only
> > descended
> > > > into
> > > > > > hell
> > > > > > > once -- from then on human beings must accept Jesus the same as
> > you
> > > > and
> > > > > > me.
> > > > > > > They have to accept the Savior. Jesus preached to the souls in
> > hell
> > > > > > before
> > > > > > > God raised Him from the dead.
> > > > > > > The human beings who accepted what HE said, were raised with Him.
> > > > > > > Since we do have the Bible and knowledge of Jesus being on earth
> > -
> > > > and
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > Grace of God to us for the forgiveness of our sins -- we are
> > plain
> > > > stupid
> > > > > > if
> > > > > > > we don't accept the free gift of salvation that God is handing to
> > us.
> > > > > > > The problem today is that there seems to be no one who truly
> > > > understands
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > *rightly dividing of the Word of Truth (the Bible)* and so with
> > the
> > > > usual
> > > > > > > goodness of *head knowledge* they just mix the whole thing up -
> > all
> > > > > > > together, so you don't know who is being spoken to - and miss the
> > > > > > blessing
> > > > > > > that we all can have in the here and now when we understand that
> > > > there
> > > > > > are
> > > > > > > differences in the Bible.
> > > > > > > > On Oct 26, 2:50 pm, thea <thea.n...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > On Mon, Oct 26, 2009 at 9:25 AM, Sebastian <
> > mezna...@gmail.com>
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > Let's assume everything you are saying is true and let's
> > say
> > > > that
> > > > > > > > > > jesus will come back in 2357 (or whatever is your favourite
> > > > guess).
> > > > > > > > > > Then the only people to whom god "proved" that they need to
> > > > come to
> > > > > > > > > > him are those between 30 CE and 2357 CE. How about all
> > those
> > > > > > between 2
> > > > > > > > > > million BCE and 30 CE. What did they learn? They were
> > unworthy
> > > > of
> > > > > > > > > > salvation?
> > > > > > > > > When Jesus died and descended into hell -- he preached to all
> > --
> > > > and
> > > > > > many
> > > > > > > > > arose and walked on the earth when Jesus arose from the dead.
> > > > And,
> > > > > > then
> > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > ones who accepted Jesus as Messiah went to heaven when HE did
> > at
> > > > the
> > > > > > > > > resurrection. Now yes, this is what the Bible says. So
> > those
> > > > who
> > > > > > lived
> > > > > > > > > millions of years ago, also were given a chance to believe in
> > the
> > > > God
> > > > > > > > that
> > > > > > > > > made the heavens and the earth.
> > > > > > > > > > On Oct 26, 1:48 pm, thea <thea.n...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Oct 26, 2009 at 8:39 AM, showmethehoney
> > > > > > > > > > > <alenasha...@googlemail.com>wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > the deep mystery is what you are trying to say ;-)
> > > > > > > > > > > > On Oct 26, 12:11 am, KingOfTheApes <
> > > > > > comandante.ban...@yahoo.com>
> > > > > > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > You know the first coming of Jesus, and he
> > accomplished
> > > > > > nothing.
> > > > > > > > And
> > > > > > > > > > > > > then in the second coming, he's really getting the
> > world
> > > > in
> > > > > > > > shape...
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Why is that?
> > > > > > > > > > > > > And then all those years in between make people
> > impatient
> > > > and
> > > > > > > > wonder
> > > > > > > > > > > > > if he's real at all. That's a deep mystery.
> > > > > > > > > > > I don't think it is a mystery why he has waiting all of
> > 2,000
> > > > or
> > > > > > more
> > > > > > > > > > > years.
> > > > > > > > > > > In understanding prophecy we have to understand the
> > > > dispensation,
> > > > > > > > which
> > > > > > > > > > > isn't exactly a length of time, but it is the time frame
> > in
> > > > which
> > > > > > God
> > > > > > > > > > dealt
> > > > > > > > > > > with the human race a certain way in order to prove that
> > we
> > > > have
> > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > come
> > > > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > > > HIM for salvation.
> > > > > > > > > > > This dispensation of Grace in which we now live -- where
> > all
> > > > > > human
> > > > > > > > beings
> > > > > > > > > > > are being told that all they have to do to be saved is
> > > > believe
> > > > > > that
> > > > > > > > *God
> > > > > > > > > > > raised Jesus from the dead.*
> > > > > > > > > > > Do you realize that the Koran has 110 mentions of Jesus?
> > --------------------------------------------------------------------------- -----
> > > > > > > > > > > > > How to tell if people descend from the monkey: Give
> > them
> > > > a
> > > > > > > > banana!
On Fri, Oct 30, 2009 at 9:13 AM, Sebastian <mezna...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Well I am keeping my mind open to god's existence. I believe that any
> non-contradictory version of god CAN exist (in other words, I neither
> believe nor disbelieve). I am an atheist with regards to any
> contradictory version, however.
The only thing I have found that the Bible says that I believe really does
happen is:
*When we search for the Lord Jesus with our whole heart - HE is found by
us.*
How do we search? To me it came from asking for the Truth - and then as I
look
back I see how I was taught from here and from there, what the Truth was --
and then I asked for Where's the Power? And the same thing happened.
I learned over a period of time that *God lives in the praises of His
People*
and as long as I am willing to ask - I will receive as I say Thank You.
Psalms 50:14 and 15 also give a clue as to how God works in the here and
now.
I ask, and I say Thank You, and I get the answer to my prayers.
> On Oct 30, 2:05 pm, thea <thea.n...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Fri, Oct 30, 2009 at 9:02 AM, Sebastian <mezna...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > If god exists, I want to find it (him/her), thea. I am not adamant
> > > that no god can possibly exist. But so far, if you are right, Jesus
> > > has decided not to allow my mind to believe despite the fact that I
> > > want to find god (if it exists).
> > How so??
> > > On Oct 29, 6:11 pm, thea <thea.n...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > On Thu, Oct 29, 2009 at 12:08 PM, Sebastian <mezna...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > > > > If what you are saying is true, then it seems to me that faith here
> on
> > > > > Earth has little consequence. I am sure that almost any atheist
> who'd
> > > > > find that they were wrong and that christianity was right would
> accept
> > > > > their failure and change their mind.
> > > > Nope! People do not change their minds because of something -
> however
> > > right
> > > > or wrong.
> > > > People only become Christians when Jesus allows their minds to
> believe
> > > that
> > > > HE Exists.
> > > > And, this only happens when someone wants to find God. When someone
> > > wants
> > > > to find God, and are willing to search with their whole heart - they
> find
> > > > the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Israel, and find abundance in every
> area
> > > of
> > > > their lives.
> > > > > On Oct 29, 4:52 pm, thea <thea.n...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > I believe that there is much we do not know. We do not know if
> Jesus
> > > > > will
> > > > > > reveal himself to all (I personally believe that HE will), at a
> > > future
> > > > > time
> > > > > > - in which they can make the choice to choose Jesus over Satan.
> > > > > > I do believe that right now, for us --Today is the day of
> salvation -
> > > and
> > > > > > may be the only time we have to accept Jesus as our Saviour.
> > > > > > On Tue, Oct 27, 2009 at 9:34 AM, Sebastian <mezna...@gmail.com>
> > > wrote:
> > > > > > > I see. Of course we are still missing all those between 30 CE
> and
> > > the
> > > > > > > time when Jesus returns that have not heard of the bible and
> will
> > > go
> > > > > > > to hell as a result. They have not been proved much. What
> worries
> > > me
> > > > > > > is that if god is perfect and all, why can't he just deliver
> his
> > > > > > > message to everyone individually in a way that can be
> understood
> > > > > > > perfectly? Why do we need a 2000 year old book written about a
> > > person
> > > > > > > that no writer of the book is supposed to know personally and
> that
> > > > > > > some people do not even accept existed? And then there is a
> bunch
> > > of
> > > > > > > scientific evidence that shows that the world is not as
> described
> > > in
> > > > > > > there.
> > > > > > > After a full review of the book and the world, what should
> remain?
> > > > > > > Disbelief and scepticism.
> > > > > > > On Oct 27, 12:02 am, thea <thea.n...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > > On Mon, Oct 26, 2009 at 9:59 AM, Sebastian <
> mezna...@gmail.com>
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > I see. So then for those it was not a requirement to have
> > > believed
> > > > > in
> > > > > > > > > god during their lives in order to go to heaven. Would you
> then
> > > say
> > > > > > > > > that this requirement does not apply to anyone who has not
> > > heard of
> > > > > > > > > the bible and that they go to heaven no matter what?
> > > > > > > > No, they do not go to heaven no matter what. Jesus only
> > > descended
> > > > > into
> > > > > > > hell
> > > > > > > > once -- from then on human beings must accept Jesus the same
> as
> > > you
> > > > > and
> > > > > > > me.
> > > > > > > > They have to accept the Savior. Jesus preached to the souls
> in
> > > hell
> > > > > > > before
> > > > > > > > God raised Him from the dead.
> > > > > > > > The human beings who accepted what HE said, were raised with
> Him.
> > > > > > > > Since we do have the Bible and knowledge of Jesus being on
> earth
> > > -
> > > > > and
> > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > Grace of God to us for the forgiveness of our sins -- we are
> > > plain
> > > > > stupid
> > > > > > > if
> > > > > > > > we don't accept the free gift of salvation that God is
> handing to
> > > us.
> > > > > > > > The problem today is that there seems to be no one who truly
> > > > > understands
> > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > *rightly dividing of the Word of Truth (the Bible)* and so
> with
> > > the
> > > > > usual
> > > > > > > > goodness of *head knowledge* they just mix the whole thing up
> -
> > > all
> > > > > > > > together, so you don't know who is being spoken to - and miss
> the
> > > > > > > blessing
> > > > > > > > that we all can have in the here and now when we understand
> that
> > > > > there
> > > > > > > are
> > > > > > > > differences in the Bible.
> > > > > > > > > On Oct 26, 2:50 pm, thea <thea.n...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Oct 26, 2009 at 9:25 AM, Sebastian <
> > > mezna...@gmail.com>
> > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > Let's assume everything you are saying is true and
> let's
> > > say
> > > > > that
> > > > > > > > > > > jesus will come back in 2357 (or whatever is your
> favourite
> > > > > guess).
> > > > > > > > > > > Then the only people to whom god "proved" that they
> need to
> > > > > come to
> > > > > > > > > > > him are those between 30 CE and 2357 CE. How about all
> > > those
> > > > > > > between 2
> > > > > > > > > > > million BCE and 30 CE. What did they learn? They were
> > > unworthy
> > > > > of
> > > > > > > > > > > salvation?
> > > > > > > > > > When Jesus died and descended into hell -- he preached to
> all
> > > --
> > > > > and
> > > > > > > many
> > > > > > > > > > arose and walked on the earth when Jesus arose from the
> dead.
> > > > > And,
> > > > > > > then
> > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > ones who accepted Jesus as Messiah went to heaven when HE
> did
> > > at
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > resurrection. Now yes, this is what the Bible says. So
> > > those
> > > > > who
> > > > > > > lived
> > > > > > > > > > millions of years ago, also were given a chance to
> believe in
> > > the
> > > > > God
> > > > > > > > > that
> > > > > > > > > > made the heavens and the earth.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > the deep mystery is what you are trying to say ;-)
> > > > > > > > > > > > > On Oct 26, 12:11 am, KingOfTheApes <
> > > > > > > comandante.ban...@yahoo.com>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > You know the first coming of Jesus, and he
> > > accomplished
> > > > > > > nothing.
> > > > > > > > > And
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > then in the second coming, he's really getting
> the
> > > world
> > > > > in
> > > > > > > > > shape...
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Why is that?
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > And then all those years in between make people
> > > impatient
> > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > wonder
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > if he's real at all. That's a deep mystery.
> > > > > > > > > > > > I don't think it is a mystery why he has waiting all
> of
> > > 2,000
> > > > > or
> > > > > > > more
> > > > > > > > > > > > years.
> > > > > > > > > > > > In understanding prophecy we have to understand the
> > > > > dispensation,
> > > > > > > > > which
> > > > > > > > > > > > isn't exactly a length of time, but it is the time
> frame
> > > in
> > > > > which
> > > > > > > God
> > > > > > > > > > > dealt
> > > > > > > > > > > > with the human race a certain way in order to prove
> that
> > > we
> > > > > have
> > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > come
> > > > > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > > > > HIM for salvation.
> > > > > > > > > > > > This dispensation of Grace in which we now live --
> where
> > > all
> > > > > > > human
> > > > > > > > > beings
> > > > > > > > > > > > are being told that all they have to do to be saved
> is
> > > > > believe
> > > > > > > that
> > > > > > > > > *God
> > > > > > > > > > > > raised Jesus from the dead.*
> > > > > > > > > > > > Do you realize that the Koran has 110 mentions of
> Jesus?
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------- -----
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > How to tell if people descend from the monkey:
> Give
> > > them
> > > > > a
> > > > > > > > > banana!
> On Thu, Oct 29, 2009 at 4:46 PM, LL <llp...@aol.com> wrote:
> > On Oct 29, 9:59 am, thea <thea.n...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > On Tue, Oct 27, 2009 at 11:50 AM, LL <llp...@aol.com> wrote:
> > > > On Oct 26, 5:02 pm, thea <thea.n...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > On Mon, Oct 26, 2009 at 9:59 AM, Sebastian <mezna...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > > > > > I see. So then for those it was not a requirement to have believed
> > in
> > > > > > god during their lives in order to go to heaven. Would you then say
> > > > > > that this requirement does not apply to anyone who has not heard of
> > > > > > the bible and that they go to heaven no matter what?
> > > > > No, they do not go to heaven no matter what. Jesus only descended
> > into
> > > > hell
> > > > > once -- from then on human beings must accept Jesus the same as you
> > and
> > > > me.
> > > > > They have to accept the Savior. Jesus preached to the souls in hell
> > > > before
> > > > > God raised Him from the dead.
> > > > > The human beings who accepted what HE said, were raised with Him.
> > > > > Since we do have the Bible and knowledge of Jesus being on earth -
> > and
> > > > the
> > > > > Grace of God to us for the forgiveness of our sins -- we are plain
> > stupid
> > > > if
> > > > > we don't accept the free gift of salvation that God is handing to us.
> > > > > The problem today is that there seems to be no one who truly
> > understands
> > > > the
> > > > > *rightly dividing of the Word of Truth (the Bible)* and so with the
> > usual
> > > > > goodness of *head knowledge* they just mix the whole thing up - all
> > > > > together, so you don't know who is being spoken to - and miss the
> > > > blessing
> > > > > that we all can have in the here and now when we understand that
> > there
> > > > are
> > > > > differences in the Bible.
> > > > LL: Don't you think that if your god wanted people to understand and
> > > > believe in all this he would have made it clearer? Why the unending
> > > > complications and misinterpretations?
> > > Because we have an adversary called Satan who doesn't want us to see the
> > > simplicity of the Gospel and become Christians. Satan wants us to
> > believe
> > > his lie which he gave to Adam and Eve in the Garden. Satan wants us only
> > to
> > > believe that what we can see with our natural sight is all we get.
> > LL: But where did Satan come from? Who created Satan?
> God created Satan. Satan was the most perfect, more beautiful and more
> perfect than any other created being. He could walk on the coals of the
> altar of the fire of God. But sin was found in Him, when Satan decided that
> he would be like the most High. Satan said, *I Will*
> and God said - No you won't.
> This is the reason that the only way we get into heaven is through God's
> Son, Jesus. Because we are covered by the Blood of Jesus - God the Father
> accepts us in Jesus Christ.
> We will never be able to commit Satan's sin in the eons of time to come.
LL: Then what do we need Jesus for? Why would a good god create an
evil such as Satan only to say that people can be "saved" by Jesus?
Sounds pretty screwy to me.
> > > However, Jesus said we could worship Him in Spirit and in Truth.
> > > It is not easy to be a Christian or to follow after the Spirit. We are
> > > *hard wired* to do things man's way instead of God's way.
> > LL: Are you saying that god created us "hard wired" to do things man's
> > way instead of god's way? Why would a creator do such a thing?
> God allowed Adam and Eve to have dominion over everything in the garden.
> When they sinned, it caused all of us to be hard wired to sin. In fact, we
> are created in sin because of Adam and Eve.
LL: NO,if we're created in sin it's because god created us that way.
You can't blame the sins of the world on god's creation unless you are
ready to blame god for putting th whole ridiculous system into place
to begin with.
Thea: In understanding how God chose us from Before the Foundation of
the World,
> and made the way for us to be in Christ Jesus in order to have someone fill
> up the space left in heaven when Satan was kicked out.
LL: That's even more ridiculous. This is the kind of thing that keeps
thinking people from accepting Christianity. It is so convoluted and
unbelievable that no thinking person could possibly accept it.
> > When we do get
> > > past the *hard wiring* and start walking after the Spirit, we find that
> > > Jesus is right there to lead the way.
> > LL: There would be no need for Jesus if god hadn't set up the system
> > is such a convoluted way in the first place. We'd have nothing to be
> > saved from.
> Satan made the decision that he would be like the most High God. God kicked
> him out of heaven. Everything in nature teaches that there cannot be a
> vacuum. So God made a way for His human beings to take Satan's place in
> heaven.
> Adam and Eve proved that we have the ability to either accept or reject
> God's way.
> > > When you tell a lie - have you ever gone back and said you were sorry for
> > > lying. Those half-truths that you on occasion say - do you apologize for
> > > lying? You see it is not even easy to know when we are lying without
> > > becoming a Christian.
> > LL: I was a Christian and it seemed odd to me then. All that game-
> > playing!
> Well, it is not game-playing. It's called having clear conscience.
> > And, then you will know -- oh yeah! condemnation
> > > comes right away - and we know to keep things right - because our
> > > consciouses bother us otherwise.
> > LL: Who created our conscious minds? And why?
> God created human beings so that we could walk and talk with Him!
LL: More likely god created human beings so he could practice sadism.
> > > > > > On Oct 26, 2:50 pm, thea <thea.n...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > On Mon, Oct 26, 2009 at 9:25 AM, Sebastian <mezna...@gmail.com>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > Let's assume everything you are saying is true and let's say
> > that
> > > > > > > > jesus will come back in 2357 (or whatever is your favourite
> > guess).
> > > > > > > > Then the only people to whom god "proved" that they need to
> > come to
> > > > > > > > him are those between 30 CE and 2357 CE. How about all those
> > > > between 2
> > > > > > > > million BCE and 30 CE. What did they learn? They were unworthy
> > of
> > > > > > > > salvation?
> > > > > > > When Jesus died and descended into hell -- he preached to all --
> > and
> > > > many
> > > > > > > arose and walked on the earth when Jesus arose from the dead.
> > And,
> > > > then
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > ones who accepted Jesus as Messiah went to heaven when HE did at
> > the
> > > > > > > resurrection. Now yes, this is what the Bible says. So those
> > who
> > > > lived
> > > > > > > millions of years ago, also were given a chance to believe in the
> > God
> > > > > > that
> > > > > > > made the heavens and the earth.
> > > > > > > > On Oct 26, 1:48 pm, thea <thea.n...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > On Mon, Oct 26, 2009 at 8:39 AM, showmethehoney
> > > > > > > > > <alenasha...@googlemail.com>wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > the deep mystery is what you are trying to say ;-)
> > > > > > > > > > On Oct 26, 12:11 am, KingOfTheApes <
> > > > comandante.ban...@yahoo.com>
> > > > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > You know the first coming of Jesus, and he accomplished
> > > > nothing.
> > > > > > And
> > > > > > > > > > > then in the second coming, he's really getting the world
> > in
> > > > > > shape...
> > > > > > > > > > > Why is that?
> > > > > > > > > > > And then all those years in between make people impatient
> > and
> > > > > > wonder
> > > > > > > > > > > if he's real at all. That's a deep mystery.
> > > > > > > > > I don't think it is a mystery why he has waiting all of 2,000
> > or
> > > > more
> > > > > > > > > years.
> > > > > > > > > In understanding prophecy we have to understand the
> > dispensation,
> > > > > > which
> > > > > > > > > isn't exactly a length of time, but it is the time frame in
> > which
> > > > God
> > > > > > > > dealt
> > > > > > > > > with the human race a certain way in order to prove that we
> > have
> > > > to
> > > > > > come
> > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > HIM for salvation.
> > > > > > > > > This dispensation of Grace in which we now live -- where all
> > > > human
> > > > > > beings
> > > > > > > > > are being told that all they have to do to be saved is
> > believe
> > > > that
> > > > > > *God
> > > > > > > > > raised Jesus from the dead.*
> > > > > > > > > Do you realize that the Koran has 110 mentions of Jesus?
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > -----
> > > > > > > > > > > How to tell if people descend from the monkey: Give them
> > a
> > > > > > banana!
> On Fri, Oct 30, 2009 at 9:13 AM, Sebastian <mezna...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Well I am keeping my mind open to god's existence. I believe that any
> > non-contradictory version of god CAN exist (in other words, I neither
> > believe nor disbelieve). I am an atheist with regards to any
> > contradictory version, however.
> The only thing I have found that the Bible says that I believe really does
> happen is:
> *When we search for the Lord Jesus with our whole heart - HE is found by
> us.*
> How do we search? To me it came from asking for the Truth - and then as I
> look
> back I see how I was taught from here and from there, what the Truth was --
> and then I asked for Where's the Power? And the same thing happened.
> I learned over a period of time that *God lives in the praises of His
> People*
> and as long as I am willing to ask - I will receive as I say Thank You.
> Psalms 50:14 and 15 also give a clue as to how God works in the here and
> now.
> I ask, and I say Thank You, and I get the answer to my prayers.
LL: Who do you thank when god creates misery for millions of people
every day? Who do you thank for tidal waves, typhoons and starvation
conditions wreaking destruction right now? Who do you thank for
innocent little kids being kidnapped, raped, tortured and killed every
day right under our noses?
> > On Oct 30, 2:05 pm, thea <thea.n...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > On Fri, Oct 30, 2009 at 9:02 AM, Sebastian <mezna...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > If god exists, I want to find it (him/her), thea. I am not adamant
> > > > that no god can possibly exist. But so far, if you are right, Jesus
> > > > has decided not to allow my mind to believe despite the fact that I
> > > > want to find god (if it exists).
> > > How so??
> > > > On Oct 29, 6:11 pm, thea <thea.n...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > On Thu, Oct 29, 2009 at 12:08 PM, Sebastian <mezna...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > > > > > If what you are saying is true, then it seems to me that faith here
> > on
> > > > > > Earth has little consequence. I am sure that almost any atheist
> > who'd
> > > > > > find that they were wrong and that christianity was right would
> > accept
> > > > > > their failure and change their mind.
> > > > > Nope! People do not change their minds because of something -
> > however
> > > > right
> > > > > or wrong.
> > > > > People only become Christians when Jesus allows their minds to
> > believe
> > > > that
> > > > > HE Exists.
> > > > > And, this only happens when someone wants to find God. When someone
> > > > wants
> > > > > to find God, and are willing to search with their whole heart - they
> > find
> > > > > the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Israel, and find abundance in every
> > area
> > > > of
> > > > > their lives.
> > > > > > On Oct 29, 4:52 pm, thea <thea.n...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > I believe that there is much we do not know. We do not know if
> > Jesus
> > > > > > will
> > > > > > > reveal himself to all (I personally believe that HE will), at a
> > > > future
> > > > > > time
> > > > > > > - in which they can make the choice to choose Jesus over Satan.
> > > > > > > I do believe that right now, for us --Today is the day of
> > salvation -
> > > > and
> > > > > > > may be the only time we have to accept Jesus as our Saviour.
> > > > > > > On Tue, Oct 27, 2009 at 9:34 AM, Sebastian <mezna...@gmail.com>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > I see. Of course we are still missing all those between 30 CE
> > and
> > > > the
> > > > > > > > time when Jesus returns that have not heard of the bible and
> > will
> > > > go
> > > > > > > > to hell as a result. They have not been proved much. What
> > worries
> > > > me
> > > > > > > > is that if god is perfect and all, why can't he just deliver
> > his
> > > > > > > > message to everyone individually in a way that can be
> > understood
> > > > > > > > perfectly? Why do we need a 2000 year old book written about a
> > > > person
> > > > > > > > that no writer of the book is supposed to know personally and
> > that
> > > > > > > > some people do not even accept existed? And then there is a
> > bunch
> > > > of
> > > > > > > > scientific evidence that shows that the world is not as
> > described
> > > > in
> > > > > > > > there.
> > > > > > > > After a full review of the book and the world, what should
> > remain?
> > > > > > > > Disbelief and scepticism.
> > > > > > > > On Oct 27, 12:02 am, thea <thea.n...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > On Mon, Oct 26, 2009 at 9:59 AM, Sebastian <
> > mezna...@gmail.com>
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > I see. So then for those it was not a requirement to have
> > > > believed
> > > > > > in
> > > > > > > > > > god during their lives in order to go to heaven. Would you
> > then
> > > > say
> > > > > > > > > > that this requirement does not apply to anyone who has not
> > > > heard of
> > > > > > > > > > the bible and that they go to heaven no matter what?
> > > > > > > > > No, they do not go to heaven no matter what. Jesus only
> > > > descended
> > > > > > into
> > > > > > > > hell
> > > > > > > > > once -- from then on human beings must accept Jesus the same
> > as
> > > > you
> > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > me.
> > > > > > > > > They have to accept the Savior. Jesus preached to the souls
> > in
> > > > hell
> > > > > > > > before
> > > > > > > > > God raised Him from the dead.
> > > > > > > > > The human beings who accepted what HE said, were raised with
> > Him.
> > > > > > > > > Since we do have the Bible and knowledge of Jesus being on
> > earth
> > > > -
> > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > Grace of God to us for the forgiveness of our sins -- we are
> > > > plain
> > > > > > stupid
> > > > > > > > if
> > > > > > > > > we don't accept the free gift of salvation that God is
> > handing to
> > > > us.
> > > > > > > > > The problem today is that there seems to be no one who truly
> > > > > > understands
> > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > *rightly dividing of the Word of Truth (the Bible)* and so
> > with
> > > > the
> > > > > > usual
> > > > > > > > > goodness of *head knowledge* they just mix the whole thing up
> > -
> > > > all
> > > > > > > > > together, so you don't know who is being spoken to - and miss
> > the
> > > > > > > > blessing
> > > > > > > > > that we all can have in the here and now when we understand
> > that
> > > > > > there
> > > > > > > > are
> > > > > > > > > differences in the Bible.
> > > > > > > > > > On Oct 26, 2:50 pm, thea <thea.n...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Oct 26, 2009 at 9:25 AM, Sebastian <
> > > > mezna...@gmail.com>
> > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > Let's assume everything you are saying is true and
> > let's
> > > > say
> > > > > > that
> > > > > > > > > > > > jesus will come back in 2357 (or whatever is your
> > favourite
> > > > > > guess).
> > > > > > > > > > > > Then the only people to whom god "proved" that they
> > need to
> > > > > > come to
> > > > > > > > > > > > him are those between 30 CE and 2357 CE. How about all
> > > > those
> > > > > > > > between 2
> > > > > > > > > > > > million BCE and 30 CE. What did they learn? They were
> > > > unworthy
> > > > > > of
> > > > > > > > > > > > salvation?
> > > > > > > > > > > When Jesus died and descended into hell -- he preached to
> > all
> > > > --
> > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > many
> > > > > > > > > > > arose and walked on the earth when Jesus arose from the
> > dead.
> > > > > > And,
> > > > > > > > then
> > > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > ones who accepted Jesus as Messiah went to heaven when HE
> > did
> > > > at
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > resurrection. Now yes, this is what the Bible says. So
> > > > those
> > > > > > who
> > > > > > > > lived
> > > > > > > > > > > millions of years ago, also were given a chance to
> > believe in
> > > > the
> > > > > > God
> > > > > > > > > > that
> > > > > > > > > > > made the heavens and the earth.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > the deep mystery is what you are trying to say ;-)
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Oct 26, 12:11 am, KingOfTheApes <
> > > > > > > > comandante.ban...@yahoo.com>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You know the first coming of Jesus, and he
> > > > accomplished
> > > > > > > > nothing.
> > > > > > > > > > And
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > then in the second coming, he's really getting
> > the
> > > > world
> > > > > > in
> > > > > > > > > > shape...
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Why is that?
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And then all those years in between make people
> > > > impatient
> > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > > wonder
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > if he's real at all. That's a deep mystery.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't think it is a mystery why he has waiting all
> > of
> > > > 2,000
> > > > > > or
> > > > > > > > more
> > > > > > > > > > > > > years.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > In understanding prophecy we have to understand the
> > > > > > dispensation,
> > > > > > > > > > which
> > > > > > > > > > > > > isn't exactly a length of time, but it is the time
> > frame
> > > > in
> > > > > > which
> > > > > > > > God
> > > > > > > > > > > > dealt
> > > > > > > > > > > > > with the human race a certain way in order to prove
> > that
> > > > we
> > > > > > have
> > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > > come
> On Tue, Oct 27, 2009 at 12:54 PM, LL <llp...@aol.com> wrote:
> >> "The liberty which Christ hath purchased for believers under the
> >> gospel consists in their freedom from the guilt of sin, the condemning
> >> wrath of God, the curse of the moral law; and in their being delivered
> >> from this present evil world, bondage to Satan, and dominion of sin,
> >> from the evil of afflictions, the sting of death, the victory of the
> >> grave, and everlasting damnation; as also in their free access to God,
> >> and their yielding obedience unto him, not out of slavish fear, but a
> >> childlike love, and a willing mind."
> > LL: In other words, complete stupidity and gullibility.
> No reason for "in other words", the ones used were more than adequate. :)
> > If a person
> > thinks independently he's doomed, evidently. If he uses the brains he
> > believes god gave him, he's plum outa luck!
> Or rather, its just as simple as noting that humanistic and
> human-centric epistemological first principles are simply not tenable.
Are you able to give me an example of a "human-centric epistemological
first principle"?
On Sat, Oct 31, 2009 at 2:02 AM, LL <llp...@aol.com> wrote:
> On Oct 29, 4:29 pm, thea <thea.n...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Thu, Oct 29, 2009 at 4:46 PM, LL <llp...@aol.com> wrote:
> > > On Oct 29, 9:59 am, thea <thea.n...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > On Tue, Oct 27, 2009 at 11:50 AM, LL <llp...@aol.com> wrote:
> > > > > On Oct 26, 5:02 pm, thea <thea.n...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > On Mon, Oct 26, 2009 at 9:59 AM, Sebastian <mezna...@gmail.com>
> > > wrote:
> > > > > > > I see. So then for those it was not a requirement to have
> believed
> > > in
> > > > > > > god during their lives in order to go to heaven. Would you then
> say
> > > > > > > that this requirement does not apply to anyone who has not
> heard of
> > > > > > > the bible and that they go to heaven no matter what?
> > > > > > No, they do not go to heaven no matter what. Jesus only
> descended
> > > into
> > > > > hell
> > > > > > once -- from then on human beings must accept Jesus the same as
> you
> > > and
> > > > > me.
> > > > > > They have to accept the Savior. Jesus preached to the souls in
> hell
> > > > > before
> > > > > > God raised Him from the dead.
> > > > > > The human beings who accepted what HE said, were raised with Him.
> > > > > > Since we do have the Bible and knowledge of Jesus being on earth
> -
> > > and
> > > > > the
> > > > > > Grace of God to us for the forgiveness of our sins -- we are
> plain
> > > stupid
> > > > > if
> > > > > > we don't accept the free gift of salvation that God is handing to
> us.
> > > > > > The problem today is that there seems to be no one who truly
> > > understands
> > > > > the
> > > > > > *rightly dividing of the Word of Truth (the Bible)* and so with
> the
> > > usual
> > > > > > goodness of *head knowledge* they just mix the whole thing up -
> all
> > > > > > together, so you don't know who is being spoken to - and miss the
> > > > > blessing
> > > > > > that we all can have in the here and now when we understand that
> > > there
> > > > > are
> > > > > > differences in the Bible.
> > > > > LL: Don't you think that if your god wanted people to understand
> and
> > > > > believe in all this he would have made it clearer? Why the unending
> > > > > complications and misinterpretations?
> > > > Because we have an adversary called Satan who doesn't want us to see
> the
> > > > simplicity of the Gospel and become Christians. Satan wants us to
> > > believe
> > > > his lie which he gave to Adam and Eve in the Garden. Satan wants us
> only
> > > to
> > > > believe that what we can see with our natural sight is all we get.
> > > LL: But where did Satan come from? Who created Satan?
> > God created Satan. Satan was the most perfect, more beautiful and more
> > perfect than any other created being. He could walk on the coals of the
> > altar of the fire of God. But sin was found in Him, when Satan decided
> that
> > he would be like the most High. Satan said, *I Will*
> > and God said - No you won't.
> > This is the reason that the only way we get into heaven is through God's
> > Son, Jesus. Because we are covered by the Blood of Jesus - God the
> Father
> > accepts us in Jesus Christ.
> > We will never be able to commit Satan's sin in the eons of time to come.
> LL: Then what do we need Jesus for? Why would a good god create an
> evil such as Satan only to say that people can be "saved" by Jesus?
> Sounds pretty screwy to me.
I like what *A Dispensational Theology* says as this is the only explanation
which seems to make a little sense:
*One of the stickiest problems of philosophy is that of the origin of evil.
Evil originated with Satan, and the question arises: How could a sinless
creature originate sin? With man the case was different, for the temptation
came to him from without, but how could sin evolve within the heart of one
who was sinless? The Scripture does not answer this question. If simply
gives us the fact that sin did originate in the angelic realm. But since
there was no outside source of temptation in the case of the angels who
sinned, this may account for the fact that no provision has been made for
their salvation; whereas in man's case, having been tempted by another, his
sin is of such character that God could provide for his salvation. Besides
this, it is difficult to imagine what work would be necessary to effect the
salvation of angels. Since they do not have flesh and blood, the shedding
of Christ' blood could seemingly have no value for them. And angels, being
individual creations of God and not a race, could hardly have a work done
for them similar to that which has been done for the human race.*
> > > > However, Jesus said we could worship Him in Spirit and in Truth.
> > > > It is not easy to be a Christian or to follow after the Spirit. We
> are
> > > > *hard wired* to do things man's way instead of God's way.
> > > LL: Are you saying that god created us "hard wired" to do things man's
> > > way instead of god's way? Why would a creator do such a thing?
> > God allowed Adam and Eve to have dominion over everything in the garden.
> > When they sinned, it caused all of us to be hard wired to sin. In fact,
> we
> > are created in sin because of Adam and Eve.
> LL: NO,if we're created in sin it's because god created us that way.
> You can't blame the sins of the world on god's creation unless you are
> ready to blame god for putting th whole ridiculous system into place
> to begin with.
The Bible says that all have *sinned* and come short of the glory of God,
and there is no other explanation. We are also told in the Bible that we
are created in sin.
However, we also have always believed that God breathed the breath of live
into his offspring.
When a child takes his first breath while having his bottom spanked - does
God give the Life (Spirit) at that time. Possibly -- because no one can
prove it so or false.
> Thea: In understanding how God chose us from Before the Foundation of
> the World,
> > and made the way for us to be in Christ Jesus in order to have someone
> fill
> > up the space left in heaven when Satan was kicked out.
> LL: That's even more ridiculous. This is the kind of thing that keeps
> thinking people from accepting Christianity. It is so convoluted and
> unbelievable that no thinking person could possibly accept it.
Jesus said that Satan was kicked out of heaven.
We, who are in Christ Jesus in this Dispensation, have been chosen to take
Satan's place and lovingly Thank Jesus for His great salvation for all
eternity.
God has an angelic host who say *Holy, Holy, Holy*.
And Jesus as God's son will have a host of former human beings who Thank
Jesus continually around the throne for His so great salvation.
> > > When we do get
> > > > past the *hard wiring* and start walking after the Spirit, we find
> that
> > > > Jesus is right there to lead the way.
> > > LL: There would be no need for Jesus if god hadn't set up the system
> > > is such a convoluted way in the first place. We'd have nothing to be
> > > saved from.
> > Satan made the decision that he would be like the most High God. God
> kicked
> > him out of heaven. Everything in nature teaches that there cannot be a
> > vacuum. So God made a way for His human beings to take Satan's place in
> > heaven.
> > Adam and Eve proved that we have the ability to either accept or reject
> > God's way.
> > > > When you tell a lie - have you ever gone back and said you were sorry
> for
> > > > lying. Those half-truths that you on occasion say - do you apologize
> for
> > > > lying? You see it is not even easy to know when we are lying without
> > > > becoming a Christian.
> > > LL: I was a Christian and it seemed odd to me then. All that game-
> > > playing!
> > Well, it is not game-playing. It's called having clear conscience.
> > > And, then you will know -- oh yeah! condemnation
> > > > comes right away - and we know to keep things right - because our
> > > > consciouses bother us otherwise.
> > > LL: Who created our conscious minds? And why?
> > God created human beings so that we could walk and talk with Him!
> LL: More likely god created human beings so he could practice sadism.
> **********************
> > > > > *************************
> > > > > > > On Oct 26, 2:50 pm, thea <thea.n...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > > On Mon, Oct 26, 2009 at 9:25 AM, Sebastian <
> mezna...@gmail.com>
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > Let's assume everything you are saying is true and let's
> say
> > > that
> > > > > > > > > jesus will come back in 2357 (or whatever is your favourite
> > > guess).
> > > > > > > > > Then the only people to whom god "proved" that they need to
> > > come to
> > > > > > > > > him are those between 30 CE and 2357 CE. How about all
> those
> > > > > between 2
> > > > > > > > > million BCE and 30 CE. What did they learn? They were
> unworthy
> > > of
> > > > > > > > > salvation?
> > > > > > > > When Jesus died and descended into hell -- he preached to all
> --
> > > and
> > > > > many
> > > > > > > > arose and walked on the earth when Jesus arose from the dead.
> > > And,
> > > > > then
> > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > ones who accepted Jesus as Messiah went to heaven when HE did
> at
> > > the
> > > > > > > > resurrection. Now yes, this is what the Bible says. So
> those
> > > who
> > > > > lived
> > > > > > > > millions of years ago, also were given a chance to believe in
> the
> > > God
> > > > > > > that
> > > > > > > > made the heavens and the earth.
On Sat, Oct 31, 2009 at 2:05 AM, LL <llp...@aol.com> wrote:
> On Oct 30, 7:26 am, thea <thea.n...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Fri, Oct 30, 2009 at 9:13 AM, Sebastian <mezna...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > Well I am keeping my mind open to god's existence. I believe that any
> > > non-contradictory version of god CAN exist (in other words, I neither
> > > believe nor disbelieve). I am an atheist with regards to any
> > > contradictory version, however.
> > The only thing I have found that the Bible says that I believe really
> does
> > happen is:
> > *When we search for the Lord Jesus with our whole heart - HE is found by
> > us.*
> > How do we search? To me it came from asking for the Truth - and then as
> I
> > look
> > back I see how I was taught from here and from there, what the Truth was
> --
> > and then I asked for Where's the Power? And the same thing happened.
> > I learned over a period of time that *God lives in the praises of His
> > People*
> > and as long as I am willing to ask - I will receive as I say Thank You.
> > Psalms 50:14 and 15 also give a clue as to how God works in the here and
> > now.
> > I ask, and I say Thank You, and I get the answer to my prayers.
> LL: Who do you thank when god creates misery for millions of people
> every day? Who do you thank for tidal waves, typhoons and starvation
> conditions wreaking destruction right now? Who do you thank for
> innocent little kids being kidnapped, raped, tortured and killed every
> day right under our noses?
God didn't create misery for people. God sent His only Begotten Son, Jesus,
to earth in order for us to be saved from this *so called misery*.
When Jesus paid the price for us at the cross of Calvary, God made the way
for us to live in health, and be able to take control of the earth like we
should have been doing (as Adam sinned and lost control).
Because some man-made religion took control of the Bible and made it to
where Christians cannot learn what it is like to really be a Christian, and
what it is like to be set free -- totally free from the destructive forces
of nature (which Satan controls - as he is the one who took control of what
Adam had been given by God in the Garden).
Our problem today, is that we fail to realize that we have control over the
earth -- we were given control of all the earth -- we were to bring it all
under subjection from the Garden of Eden onward. But, because we don't
believe in the power of God in our personal lives, we have left Satan in
charge of ruling over the physical elements in the here and now - and he
lost the right to control anything at the Cross of Calvary.
The church has decided that the only thing you can have control over is your
*spirit* which means that you accept Jesus - but never can understand that
God has the power to protect, lead, guide and direct your life.
To not accept the fact that *sin* is the problem - and nothing else.
When the *sin* problem is taken care of -- then it is necessary to start
asking, *Where's the power of my so-great God, Jesus Christ.* Yes, Jesus
came to save me in the *sweet bye-and bye - but where is His Power to
protect me in the here and now.
When we come to the place where we realize that the words of our mouth is
the rudder of our souls, and understand that we have power over the enemy
(weaher - circumstances) when we walk with Jesus on a personal basis - and
let HIM do the leading, guiding and directing -- we see the miracles of not
having that awful storm touch us.
The blood of Jesus applied to the four corners of your property, can protect
you from damage meant for you -- because the death angel in Egypt could not
touch Israel - because the blood was applied. But you can only do this for
yourself -- you can pray for your nation and your leaders - but you cannot
put the Blood around them, because you are only allowed to place it on your
own door post. (Exodus)
In Exodus 11:7 *......; that ye may know how that the Lord doth put a
difference between the Egyptians and Israel.*
And, so in the same way -- if you believe that God can do it -- HE does
protect you when calamity comes upon unbelievers.
> > > On Oct 30, 2:05 pm, thea <thea.n...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > On Fri, Oct 30, 2009 at 9:02 AM, Sebastian <mezna...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > > > > If god exists, I want to find it (him/her), thea. I am not adamant
> > > > > that no god can possibly exist. But so far, if you are right, Jesus
> > > > > has decided not to allow my mind to believe despite the fact that I
> > > > > want to find god (if it exists).
> > > > How so??
> > > > > On Oct 29, 6:11 pm, thea <thea.n...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > On Thu, Oct 29, 2009 at 12:08 PM, Sebastian <mezna...@gmail.com
> > > wrote:
> > > > > > > If what you are saying is true, then it seems to me that faith
> here
> > > on
> > > > > > > Earth has little consequence. I am sure that almost any atheist
> > > who'd
> > > > > > > find that they were wrong and that christianity was right would
> > > accept
> > > > > > > their failure and change their mind.
> > > > > > Nope! People do not change their minds because of something -
> > > however
> > > > > right
> > > > > > or wrong.
> > > > > > People only become Christians when Jesus allows their minds to
> > > believe
> > > > > that
> > > > > > HE Exists.
> > > > > > And, this only happens when someone wants to find God. When
> someone
> > > > > wants
> > > > > > to find God, and are willing to search with their whole heart -
> they
> > > find
> > > > > > the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Israel, and find abundance in
> every
> > > area
> > > > > of
> > > > > > their lives.
> > > > > > > On Oct 29, 4:52 pm, thea <thea.n...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > > I believe that there is much we do not know. We do not know
> if
> > > Jesus
> > > > > > > will
> > > > > > > > reveal himself to all (I personally believe that HE will), at
> a
> > > > > future
> > > > > > > time
> > > > > > > > - in which they can make the choice to choose Jesus over
> Satan.
> > > > > > > > I do believe that right now, for us --Today is the day of
> > > salvation -
> > > > > and
> > > > > > > > may be the only time we have to accept Jesus as our Saviour.
> > > > > > > > On Tue, Oct 27, 2009 at 9:34 AM, Sebastian <
> mezna...@gmail.com>
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > I see. Of course we are still missing all those between 30
> CE
> > > and
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > time when Jesus returns that have not heard of the bible
> and
> > > will
> > > > > go
> > > > > > > > > to hell as a result. They have not been proved much. What
> > > worries
> > > > > me
> > > > > > > > > is that if god is perfect and all, why can't he just
> deliver
> > > his
> > > > > > > > > message to everyone individually in a way that can be
> > > understood
> > > > > > > > > perfectly? Why do we need a 2000 year old book written
> about a
> > > > > person
> > > > > > > > > that no writer of the book is supposed to know personally
> and
> > > that
> > > > > > > > > some people do not even accept existed? And then there is a
> > > bunch
> > > > > of
> > > > > > > > > scientific evidence that shows that the world is not as
> > > described
> > > > > in
> > > > > > > > > there.
> > > > > > > > > After a full review of the book and the world, what should
> > > remain?
> > > > > > > > > Disbelief and scepticism.
> > > > > > > > > On Oct 27, 12:02 am, thea <thea.n...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Oct 26, 2009 at 9:59 AM, Sebastian <
> > > mezna...@gmail.com>
> > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > I see. So then for those it was not a requirement to
> have
> > > > > believed
> > > > > > > in
> > > > > > > > > > > god during their lives in order to go to heaven. Would
> you
> > > then
> > > > > say
> > > > > > > > > > > that this requirement does not apply to anyone who has
> not
> > > > > heard of
> > > > > > > > > > > the bible and that they go to heaven no matter what?
> > > > > > > > > > No, they do not go to heaven no matter what. Jesus only
> > > > > descended
> > > > > > > into
> > > > > > > > > hell
> > > > > > > > > > once -- from then on human beings must accept Jesus the
> same
> > > as
> > > > > you
> > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > me.
> > > > > > > > > > They have to accept the Savior. Jesus preached to the
> souls
> > > in
> > > > > hell
> > > > > > > > > before
> > > > > > > > > > God raised Him from the dead.
> > > > > > > > > > The human beings who accepted what HE said, were raised
> with
> > > Him.
> > > > > > > > > > Since we do have the Bible and knowledge of Jesus being
> on
> > > earth
> > > > > -
> > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > Grace of God to us for the forgiveness of our sins -- we
> are
> > > > > plain
> > > > > > > stupid
> > > > > > > > > if
> > > > > > > > > > we don't accept the free gift of salvation that God is
> > > handing to
> > > > > us.
> > > > > > > > > > The problem today is that there seems to be no one who
> truly
> > > > > > > understands
> > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > *rightly dividing of the Word of Truth (the Bible)* and
> so
> > > with
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > usual
> > > > > > > > > > goodness of *head knowledge* they just mix the whole
> thing up
> > > -
> > > > > all
> > > > > > > > > > together, so you don't know who is being spoken to - and
> miss
> > > the
> > > > > > > > > blessing
> > > > > > > > > > that we all can have in the here and now when we
> understand
> > > that
> > > > > > > there
> > > > > > > > > are
> > > > > > > > > > differences in the Bible.
thea: "How do we search? To me it came from asking for the Truth -
and then as I
look
back I see how I was taught from here and from there, what the Truth
was --
and then I asked for Where's the Power? And the same thing happened.
I learned over a period of time that *God lives in the praises of His
People* "
I search for the truth and I do not find god. I find a universe that
works according to some laws that appear inconsistent with the concept
of a benevolent omnipotent being.
On Oct 30, 2:26 pm, thea <thea.n...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Fri, Oct 30, 2009 at 9:13 AM, Sebastian <mezna...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Well I am keeping my mind open to god's existence. I believe that any
> > non-contradictory version of god CAN exist (in other words, I neither
> > believe nor disbelieve). I am an atheist with regards to any
> > contradictory version, however.
> The only thing I have found that the Bible says that I believe really does
> happen is:
> *When we search for the Lord Jesus with our whole heart - HE is found by
> us.*
> How do we search? To me it came from asking for the Truth - and then as I
> look
> back I see how I was taught from here and from there, what the Truth was --
> and then I asked for Where's the Power? And the same thing happened.
> I learned over a period of time that *God lives in the praises of His
> People*
> and as long as I am willing to ask - I will receive as I say Thank You.
> Psalms 50:14 and 15 also give a clue as to how God works in the here and
> now.
> I ask, and I say Thank You, and I get the answer to my prayers.
> > On Oct 30, 2:05 pm, thea <thea.n...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > On Fri, Oct 30, 2009 at 9:02 AM, Sebastian <mezna...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > If god exists, I want to find it (him/her), thea. I am not adamant
> > > > that no god can possibly exist. But so far, if you are right, Jesus
> > > > has decided not to allow my mind to believe despite the fact that I
> > > > want to find god (if it exists).
> > > How so??
> > > > On Oct 29, 6:11 pm, thea <thea.n...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > On Thu, Oct 29, 2009 at 12:08 PM, Sebastian <mezna...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > > > > > If what you are saying is true, then it seems to me that faith here
> > on
> > > > > > Earth has little consequence. I am sure that almost any atheist
> > who'd
> > > > > > find that they were wrong and that christianity was right would
> > accept
> > > > > > their failure and change their mind.
> > > > > Nope! People do not change their minds because of something -
> > however
> > > > right
> > > > > or wrong.
> > > > > People only become Christians when Jesus allows their minds to
> > believe
> > > > that
> > > > > HE Exists.
> > > > > And, this only happens when someone wants to find God. When someone
> > > > wants
> > > > > to find God, and are willing to search with their whole heart - they
> > find
> > > > > the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Israel, and find abundance in every
> > area
> > > > of
> > > > > their lives.
> > > > > > On Oct 29, 4:52 pm, thea <thea.n...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > I believe that there is much we do not know. We do not know if
> > Jesus
> > > > > > will
> > > > > > > reveal himself to all (I personally believe that HE will), at a
> > > > future
> > > > > > time
> > > > > > > - in which they can make the choice to choose Jesus over Satan.
> > > > > > > I do believe that right now, for us --Today is the day of
> > salvation -
> > > > and
> > > > > > > may be the only time we have to accept Jesus as our Saviour.
> > > > > > > On Tue, Oct 27, 2009 at 9:34 AM, Sebastian <mezna...@gmail.com>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > I see. Of course we are still missing all those between 30 CE
> > and
> > > > the
> > > > > > > > time when Jesus returns that have not heard of the bible and
> > will
> > > > go
> > > > > > > > to hell as a result. They have not been proved much. What
> > worries
> > > > me
> > > > > > > > is that if god is perfect and all, why can't he just deliver
> > his
> > > > > > > > message to everyone individually in a way that can be
> > understood
> > > > > > > > perfectly? Why do we need a 2000 year old book written about a
> > > > person
> > > > > > > > that no writer of the book is supposed to know personally and
> > that
> > > > > > > > some people do not even accept existed? And then there is a
> > bunch
> > > > of
> > > > > > > > scientific evidence that shows that the world is not as
> > described
> > > > in
> > > > > > > > there.
> > > > > > > > After a full review of the book and the world, what should
> > remain?
> > > > > > > > Disbelief and scepticism.
> > > > > > > > On Oct 27, 12:02 am, thea <thea.n...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > On Mon, Oct 26, 2009 at 9:59 AM, Sebastian <
> > mezna...@gmail.com>
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > I see. So then for those it was not a requirement to have
> > > > believed
> > > > > > in
> > > > > > > > > > god during their lives in order to go to heaven. Would you
> > then
> > > > say
> > > > > > > > > > that this requirement does not apply to anyone who has not
> > > > heard of
> > > > > > > > > > the bible and that they go to heaven no matter what?
> > > > > > > > > No, they do not go to heaven no matter what. Jesus only
> > > > descended
> > > > > > into
> > > > > > > > hell
> > > > > > > > > once -- from then on human beings must accept Jesus the same
> > as
> > > > you
> > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > me.
> > > > > > > > > They have to accept the Savior. Jesus preached to the souls
> > in
> > > > hell
> > > > > > > > before
> > > > > > > > > God raised Him from the dead.
> > > > > > > > > The human beings who accepted what HE said, were raised with
> > Him.
> > > > > > > > > Since we do have the Bible and knowledge of Jesus being on
> > earth
> > > > -
> > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > Grace of God to us for the forgiveness of our sins -- we are
> > > > plain
> > > > > > stupid
> > > > > > > > if
> > > > > > > > > we don't accept the free gift of salvation that God is
> > handing to
> > > > us.
> > > > > > > > > The problem today is that there seems to be no one who truly
> > > > > > understands
> > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > *rightly dividing of the Word of Truth (the Bible)* and so
> > with
> > > > the
> > > > > > usual
> > > > > > > > > goodness of *head knowledge* they just mix the whole thing up
> > -
> > > > all
> > > > > > > > > together, so you don't know who is being spoken to - and miss
> > the
> > > > > > > > blessing
> > > > > > > > > that we all can have in the here and now when we understand
> > that
> > > > > > there
> > > > > > > > are
> > > > > > > > > differences in the Bible.
> > > > > > > > > > On Oct 26, 2:50 pm, thea <thea.n...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Oct 26, 2009 at 9:25 AM, Sebastian <
> > > > mezna...@gmail.com>
> > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > Let's assume everything you are saying is true and
> > let's
> > > > say
> > > > > > that
> > > > > > > > > > > > jesus will come back in 2357 (or whatever is your
> > favourite
> > > > > > guess).
> > > > > > > > > > > > Then the only people to whom god "proved" that they
> > need to
> > > > > > come to
> > > > > > > > > > > > him are those between 30 CE and 2357 CE. How about all
> > > > those
> > > > > > > > between 2
> > > > > > > > > > > > million BCE and 30 CE. What did they learn? They were
> > > > unworthy
> > > > > > of
> > > > > > > > > > > > salvation?
> > > > > > > > > > > When Jesus died and descended into hell -- he preached to
> > all
> > > > --
> > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > many
> > > > > > > > > > > arose and walked on the earth when Jesus arose from the
> > dead.
> > > > > > And,
> > > > > > > > then
> > > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > ones who accepted Jesus as Messiah went to heaven when HE
> > did
> > > > at
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > resurrection. Now yes, this is what the Bible says. So
> > > > those
> > > > > > who
> > > > > > > > lived
> > > > > > > > > > > millions of years ago, also were given a chance to
> > believe in
> > > > the
> > > > > > God
> > > > > > > > > > that
> > > > > > > > > > > made the heavens and the earth.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > the deep mystery is what you are trying to say ;-)
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Oct 26, 12:11 am, KingOfTheApes <
> > > > > > > > comandante.ban...@yahoo.com>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You know the first coming of Jesus, and he
> > > > accomplished
> > > > > > > > nothing.
> > > > > > > > > > And
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > then in the second coming, he's really getting
> > the
> > > > world
> > > > > > in
> > > > > > > > > > shape...
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Why is that?
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And then all those years in between make people
> > > > impatient
> > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > > wonder
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > if he's real at all. That's a deep mystery.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't think it is a mystery why he has waiting all
> > of
> > > > 2,000
> > > > > > or
> > > > > > > > more
> > > > > > > > > > > > > years.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > In understanding prophecy we have to understand the
> > > > > > dispensation,
> > > > > > > > > > which
> > > > > > > > > > > > > isn't exactly a length of time, but it is the time
> > frame
> > > > in
> > > > > > which
> > > > > > > > God
> > > > > > > > > > > > dealt
> On Sat, Oct 31, 2009 at 2:05 AM, LL <llp...@aol.com> wrote:
> > On Oct 30, 7:26 am, thea <thea.n...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > On Fri, Oct 30, 2009 at 9:13 AM, Sebastian <mezna...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > Well I am keeping my mind open to god's existence. I believe that any
> > > > non-contradictory version of god CAN exist (in other words, I neither
> > > > believe nor disbelieve). I am an atheist with regards to any
> > > > contradictory version, however.
> > > The only thing I have found that the Bible says that I believe really
> > does
> > > happen is:
> > > *When we search for the Lord Jesus with our whole heart - HE is found by
> > > us.*
> > > How do we search? To me it came from asking for the Truth - and then as
> > I
> > > look
> > > back I see how I was taught from here and from there, what the Truth was
> > --
> > > and then I asked for Where's the Power? And the same thing happened.
> > > I learned over a period of time that *God lives in the praises of His
> > > People*
> > > and as long as I am willing to ask - I will receive as I say Thank You.
> > > Psalms 50:14 and 15 also give a clue as to how God works in the here and
> > > now.
> > > I ask, and I say Thank You, and I get the answer to my prayers.
> > LL: Who do you thank when god creates misery for millions of people
> > every day? Who do you thank for tidal waves, typhoons and starvation
> > conditions wreaking destruction right now? Who do you thank for
> > innocent little kids being kidnapped, raped, tortured and killed every
> > day right under our noses?
> God didn't create misery for people. God sent His only Begotten Son, Jesus,
> to earth in order for us to be saved from this *so called misery*.
LL: Where did the misery come from? Who or what created it? Why would
an all powerful god have to send anyone to save us from it?
Thea: When Jesus paid the price for us at the cross of Calvary, God
made the way
> for us to live in health, and be able to take control of the earth like we
> should have been doing (as Adam sinned and lost control).
LL: Why did he need to send a son to "pay the price" for the misery he
created in the first place?
Thea: Because some man-made religion took control of the Bible and
made it to
> where Christians cannot learn what it is like to really be a Christian, and
> what it is like to be set free -- totally free from the destructive forces
> of nature (which Satan controls - as he is the one who took control of what
> Adam had been given by God in the Garden).
LL: Then, this man-made religion came about against god's will? Is
that what you are saying? What allowed man to create such a thing? Or
did the whole thing just get out of god's hands?
Thea: Our problem today, is that we fail to realize that we have
control over the
> earth -- we were given control of all the earth -- we were to bring it all
> under subjection from the Garden of Eden onward. But, because we don't
> believe in the power of God in our personal lives, we have left Satan in
> charge of ruling over the physical elements in the here and now - and he
> lost the right to control anything at the Cross of Calvary.
LL: Interesting, and all this was done without god's permission or
control? Is that what you are saying? Satan has become more powerful
than god? And god didn't want this to happen?
Thea: The church has decided that the only thing you can have control
over is your
> *spirit* which means that you accept Jesus - but never can understand that
> God has the power to protect, lead, guide and direct your life.
LL: Well, he's not doing a very good job of it as far as I can see.
Thea: To not accept the fact that *sin* is the problem - and nothing
else.
> When the *sin* problem is taken care of -- then it is necessary to start
> asking, *Where's the power of my so-great God, Jesus Christ.* Yes, Jesus
> came to save me in the *sweet bye-and bye - but where is His Power to
> protect me in the here and now.
LL: Good questions. Do you have any answers?
Thea: When we come to the place where we realize that the words of
our mouth is
> the rudder of our souls, and understand that we have power over the enemy
> (weaher - circumstances) when we walk with Jesus on a personal basis - and
> let HIM do the leading, guiding and directing -- we see the miracles of not
> having that awful storm touch us.
LL: Where did this "enemy" come from?
Thea: The blood of Jesus applied to the four corners of your
property, can protect
> you from damage meant for you -- because the death angel in Egypt could not
> touch Israel - because the blood was applied. But you can only do this for
> yourself -- you can pray for your nation and your leaders - but you cannot
> put the Blood around them, because you are only allowed to place it on your
> own door post. (Exodus)
> In Exodus 11:7 *......; that ye may know how that the Lord doth put a
> difference between the Egyptians and Israel.*
> And, so in the same way -- if you believe that God can do it -- HE does
> protect you when calamity comes upon unbelievers.
LL: I suspect you don't see this as a convoluted mess that no
omniscient, omnipotent, benevolent god could ever create.
> > > > On Oct 30, 2:05 pm, thea <thea.n...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > On Fri, Oct 30, 2009 at 9:02 AM, Sebastian <mezna...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > > > > > If god exists, I want to find it (him/her), thea. I am not adamant
> > > > > > that no god can possibly exist. But so far, if you are right, Jesus
> > > > > > has decided not to allow my mind to believe despite the fact that I
> > > > > > want to find god (if it exists).
> > > > > How so??
> > > > > > On Oct 29, 6:11 pm, thea <thea.n...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > On Thu, Oct 29, 2009 at 12:08 PM, Sebastian <mezna...@gmail.com
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > If what you are saying is true, then it seems to me that faith
> > here
> > > > on
> > > > > > > > Earth has little consequence. I am sure that almost any atheist
> > > > who'd
> > > > > > > > find that they were wrong and that christianity was right would
> > > > accept
> > > > > > > > their failure and change their mind.
> > > > > > > Nope! People do not change their minds because of something -
> > > > however
> > > > > > right
> > > > > > > or wrong.
> > > > > > > People only become Christians when Jesus allows their minds to
> > > > believe
> > > > > > that
> > > > > > > HE Exists.
> > > > > > > And, this only happens when someone wants to find God. When
> > someone
> > > > > > wants
> > > > > > > to find God, and are willing to search with their whole heart -
> > they
> > > > find
> > > > > > > the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Israel, and find abundance in
> > every
> > > > area
> > > > > > of
> > > > > > > their lives.
> > > > > > > > On Oct 29, 4:52 pm, thea <thea.n...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > I believe that there is much we do not know. We do not know
> > if
> > > > Jesus
> > > > > > > > will
> > > > > > > > > reveal himself to all (I personally believe that HE will), at
> > a
> > > > > > future
> > > > > > > > time
> > > > > > > > > - in which they can make the choice to choose Jesus over
> > Satan.
> > > > > > > > > I do believe that right now, for us --Today is the day of
> > > > salvation -
> > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > may be the only time we have to accept Jesus as our Saviour.
> > > > > > > > > On Tue, Oct 27, 2009 at 9:34 AM, Sebastian <
> > mezna...@gmail.com>
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > I see. Of course we are still missing all those between 30
> > CE
> > > > and
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > time when Jesus returns that have not heard of the bible
> > and
> > > > will
> > > > > > go
> > > > > > > > > > to hell as a result. They have not been proved much. What
> > > > worries
> > > > > > me
> > > > > > > > > > is that if god is perfect and all, why can't he just
> > deliver
> > > > his
> > > > > > > > > > message to everyone individually in a way that can be
> > > > understood
> > > > > > > > > > perfectly? Why do we need a 2000 year old book written
> > about a
> > > > > > person
> > > > > > > > > > that no writer of the book is supposed to know personally
> > and
> > > > that
> > > > > > > > > > some people do not even accept existed? And then there is a
> > > > bunch
> > > > > > of
> > > > > > > > > > scientific evidence that shows that the world is not as
> > > > described
> > > > > > in
> > > > > > > > > > there.
> > > > > > > > > > After a full review of the book and the world, what should
> > > > remain?
> > > > > > > > > > Disbelief and scepticism.
> > > > > > > > > > On Oct 27, 12:02 am, thea <thea.n...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Oct 26, 2009 at 9:59 AM, Sebastian <
> > > > mezna...@gmail.com>
> > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > I see. So then for those it was not a requirement to
> > have
> > > > > > believed
> > > > > > > > in
> > > > > > > > > > > > god during their lives in order to go to heaven. Would
> > you
> > > > then
> > > > > > say
> > > > > > > > > > > > that this requirement does not apply to anyone who has
> > not
> > > > > > heard of
> > > > > > > > > > > > the bible and that they go to heaven no matter what?
> > > > > > > > > > > No, they do not go to heaven no matter what. Jesus only
> > > > > > descended
> > > > > > > > into
> > > > > > > > > > hell
> > > > > > > > > > > once -- from then on human beings must accept Jesus the
> > same
> > > > as
> > > > > > you
> > > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > > me.
> > > > > > > > > > > They have to accept the Savior. Jesus preached to the
On Mon, Nov 2, 2009 at 8:19 AM, Sebastian <mezna...@gmail.com> wrote:
> thea: "How do we search? To me it came from asking for the Truth -
> and then as I
> look
> back I see how I was taught from here and from there, what the Truth
> was --
> and then I asked for Where's the Power? And the same thing happened.
> I learned over a period of time that *God lives in the praises of His
> People* "
> I search for the truth and I do not find god. I find a universe that
> works according to some laws that appear inconsistent with the concept
> of a benevolent omnipotent being.
Sebastian: Let me explain how to view the Bible.
between Genesis and Matt, Mark, Luke and John is the New Testament is the
genealogy of Jesus and Jesus' life on earth. When we get to the book of
Acts we see a changing program being given to mankind. The book of Acts
starts with the Kingdom message and St. Peter preaching. In this book of
Acts we find that St. Paul (his name was Saul) starts his ministry to the
Gentiles. He is sent to the Gentiles - and this is the start of the
dispensation of the Grace of God to both Jews and Gentiles which is still
going on today. Romans through Titus is St. Pauls ministry to the Gentiles
and Jews. Hebrews through Revelation is speaking to the Jews in the Kingdom
Age (1,000 years) which is still to come after the Tribulation.
In understand that we are in this dispensational Age of Grace to all of
mankind - if we start reading in Romans, we find our salvation is in Romans
10:9 (If we accept that God raised Jesus from the dead, we shall be saved).
Our place and position in the here and now is in Ephesians 1 (chosen in
Christ Jesus from Before the Foundation of the World -- having accepted the
redemption offered through the blood, the forgiveness of sins [past, present
and future] and we are sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise - Who is the
*down-payment* of our inheritance. And then in I Thessalonians 4, we see
our homegoing in the *caught up together with them in the clouds*.
John 3:16 Jesus said, God so loved us that HE gave His Son - that whosoever
(means all of us) believe in HIM, shall not perish, but have everlasting
life.
John 3:17 Jesus said, that HE came that we might be saved.
I can remember when a pastor used to pray what he called the *sinner's
prayer* every night on the radio as I was going down the highway. I prayed
that prayer for a week, before I realized that I only had to ask once - and
it was a done item.
To accept Jesus -- just ask HIM!
*Jesus, I'm not sure you are hearing me - but I want to know who You are*
*I want to find YOU, Jesus!*
When I began this journey and search for Jesus - it took a little time.
I had had good Bible teaching along the way and had learned many passages of
scripture as a child.
The first scripture which came to memory after asking God to show me the
truth was the verse which says, *I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life*.
The only Way to God the Father is through Jesus Christ. Jesus is the Truth.
And the Life of an animal is in the blood (Leviticus 17:11: *For the
life of the flesh is in the blood; and I have given it to you upon the altar
to make an atonement for your souls; for it is the blood that maketh an
atonement for the soul.) - And this is why we enjoy salvation - a *Know-so*
salvation - because the atonement that was made for us through Jesus dying
on Calvary (in my place) in order to make the proper atonement for my soul -
so I can thank Jesus for eternity for making the way for me.
> On Oct 30, 2:26 pm, thea <thea.n...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Fri, Oct 30, 2009 at 9:13 AM, Sebastian <mezna...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > Well I am keeping my mind open to god's existence. I believe that any
> > > non-contradictory version of god CAN exist (in other words, I neither
> > > believe nor disbelieve). I am an atheist with regards to any
> > > contradictory version, however.
> > The only thing I have found that the Bible says that I believe really
> does
> > happen is:
> > *When we search for the Lord Jesus with our whole heart - HE is found by
> > us.*
> > How do we search? To me it came from asking for the Truth - and then as
> I
> > look
> > back I see how I was taught from here and from there, what the Truth was
> --
> > and then I asked for Where's the Power? And the same thing happened.
> > I learned over a period of time that *God lives in the praises of His
> > People*
> > and as long as I am willing to ask - I will receive as I say Thank You.
> > Psalms 50:14 and 15 also give a clue as to how God works in the here and
> > now.
> > I ask, and I say Thank You, and I get the answer to my prayers.
> > > On Oct 30, 2:05 pm, thea <thea.n...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > On Fri, Oct 30, 2009 at 9:02 AM, Sebastian <mezna...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > > > > If god exists, I want to find it (him/her), thea. I am not adamant
> > > > > that no god can possibly exist. But so far, if you are right, Jesus
> > > > > has decided not to allow my mind to believe despite the fact that I
> > > > > want to find god (if it exists).
> > > > How so??
> > > > > On Oct 29, 6:11 pm, thea <thea.n...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > On Thu, Oct 29, 2009 at 12:08 PM, Sebastian <mezna...@gmail.com
> > > wrote:
> > > > > > > If what you are saying is true, then it seems to me that faith
> here
> > > on
> > > > > > > Earth has little consequence. I am sure that almost any atheist
> > > who'd
> > > > > > > find that they were wrong and that christianity was right would
> > > accept
> > > > > > > their failure and change their mind.
> > > > > > Nope! People do not change their minds because of something -
> > > however
> > > > > right
> > > > > > or wrong.
> > > > > > People only become Christians when Jesus allows their minds to
> > > believe
> > > > > that
> > > > > > HE Exists.
> > > > > > And, this only happens when someone wants to find God. When
> someone
> > > > > wants
> > > > > > to find God, and are willing to search with their whole heart -
> they
> > > find
> > > > > > the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Israel, and find abundance in
> every
> > > area
> > > > > of
> > > > > > their lives.
> > > > > > > On Oct 29, 4:52 pm, thea <thea.n...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > > I believe that there is much we do not know. We do not know
> if
> > > Jesus
> > > > > > > will
> > > > > > > > reveal himself to all (I personally believe that HE will), at
> a
> > > > > future
> > > > > > > time
> > > > > > > > - in which they can make the choice to choose Jesus over
> Satan.
> > > > > > > > I do believe that right now, for us --Today is the day of
> > > salvation -
> > > > > and
> > > > > > > > may be the only time we have to accept Jesus as our Saviour.
> > > > > > > > On Tue, Oct 27, 2009 at 9:34 AM, Sebastian <
> mezna...@gmail.com>
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > I see. Of course we are still missing all those between 30
> CE
> > > and
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > time when Jesus returns that have not heard of the bible
> and
> > > will
> > > > > go
> > > > > > > > > to hell as a result. They have not been proved much. What
> > > worries
> > > > > me
> > > > > > > > > is that if god is perfect and all, why can't he just
> deliver
> > > his
> > > > > > > > > message to everyone individually in a way that can be
> > > understood
> > > > > > > > > perfectly? Why do we need a 2000 year old book written
> about a
> > > > > person
> > > > > > > > > that no writer of the book is supposed to know personally
> and
> > > that
> > > > > > > > > some people do not even accept existed? And then there is a
> > > bunch
> > > > > of
> > > > > > > > > scientific evidence that shows that the world is not as
> > > described
> > > > > in
> > > > > > > > > there.
> > > > > > > > > After a full review of the book and the world, what should
> > > remain?
> > > > > > > > > Disbelief and scepticism.
> > > > > > > > > On Oct 27, 12:02 am, thea <thea.n...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Oct 26, 2009 at 9:59 AM, Sebastian <
> > > mezna...@gmail.com>
> > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > I see. So then for those it was not a requirement to
> have
> > > > > believed
> > > > > > > in
> > > > > > > > > > > god during their lives in order to go to heaven. Would
> you
> > > then
> > > > > say
> > > > > > > > > > > that this requirement does not apply to anyone who has
> not
> > > > > heard of
> > > > > > > > > > > the bible and that they go to heaven no matter what?
> > > > > > > > > > No, they do not go to heaven no matter what. Jesus only
> > > > > descended
> > > > > > > into
> > > > > > > > > hell
> > > > > > > > > > once -- from then on human beings must accept Jesus the
> same
> > > as
> > > > > you
> > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > me.
> > > > > > > > > > They have to accept the Savior. Jesus preached to the
> souls
> > > in
> > > > > hell
> > > > > > > > > before
> > > > > > > > > > God raised Him from the dead.
> > > > > > > > > > The human beings who accepted what HE said, were raised
> with
> > > Him.
> > > > > > > > > > Since we do have the Bible and knowledge of Jesus being
> on
> > > earth
> > > > > -
> > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > Grace of God to us for the forgiveness of our sins -- we
> are
> > > > > plain
> > > > > > > stupid
> > > > > > > > > if
> > > > > > > > > > we don't accept the free gift of salvation that God is
> > > handing to
> > > > > us.
> > > > > > > > > > The problem today is that there seems to be no one who
> truly
> > > > > > > understands
> > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > *rightly dividing of the Word of Truth (the Bible)* and
> so
> > > with
> > > > > the
On Tue, Nov 3, 2009 at 9:13 AM, thea <thea.n...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Mon, Nov 2, 2009 at 8:19 AM, Sebastian <mezna...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> thea: "How do we search? To me it came from asking for the Truth -
>> and then as I
>> look
>> back I see how I was taught from here and from there, what the Truth
>> was --
>> and then I asked for Where's the Power? And the same thing happened.
>> I learned over a period of time that *God lives in the praises of His
>> People* "
>> I search for the truth and I do not find god. I find a universe that
>> works according to some laws that appear inconsistent with the concept
>> of a benevolent omnipotent being.
> Sebastian: Let me explain how to view the Bible.
> between Genesis and Matt, Mark, Luke and John is the New Testament is the
> genealogy of Jesus and Jesus' life on earth. When we get to the book of
> Acts we see a changing program being given to mankind. The book of Acts
> starts with the Kingdom message and St. Peter preaching. In this book of
> Acts we find that St. Paul (his name was Saul) starts his ministry to the
> Gentiles. He is sent to the Gentiles - and this is the start of the
> dispensation of the Grace of God to both Jews and Gentiles which is still
> going on today. Romans through Titus is St. Pauls ministry to the Gentiles
> and Jews. Hebrews through Revelation is speaking to the Jews in the Kingdom
> Age (1,000 years) which is still to come after the Tribulation.
> In understand that we are in this dispensational Age of Grace to all of
> mankind - if we start reading in Romans, we find our salvation is in Romans
> 10:9 (If we accept that God raised Jesus from the dead, we shall be saved).
> Our place and position in the here and now is in Ephesians 1 (chosen in
> Christ Jesus from Before the Foundation of the World -- having accepted the
> redemption offered through the blood, the forgiveness of sins [past, present
> and future] and we are sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise - Who is the
> *down-payment* of our inheritance. And then in I Thessalonians 4, we see
> our homegoing in the *caught up together with them in the clouds*.
> John 3:16 Jesus said, God so loved us that HE gave His Son - that whosoever
> (means all of us) believe in HIM, shall not perish, but have everlasting
> life.
> John 3:17 Jesus said, that HE came that we might be saved.
> I can remember when a pastor used to pray what he called the *sinner's
> prayer* every night on the radio as I was going down the highway. I prayed
> that prayer for a week, before I realized that I only had to ask once - and
> it was a done item.
> To accept Jesus -- just ask HIM!
> *Jesus, I'm not sure you are hearing me - but I want to know who You are*
> *I want to find YOU, Jesus!*
> When I began this journey and search for Jesus - it took a little time.
> I had had good Bible teaching along the way and had learned many passages
> of scripture as a child.
> The first scripture which came to memory after asking God to show me the
> truth was the verse which says, *I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life*.
> The only Way to God the Father is through Jesus Christ. Jesus is the
> Truth.
> And the Life of an animal is in the blood (Leviticus 17:11: *For the
> life of the flesh is in the blood; and I have given it to you upon the altar
> to make an atonement for your souls; for it is the blood that maketh an
> atonement for the soul.) - And this is why we enjoy salvation - a *Know-so*
> salvation - because the atonement that was made for us through Jesus dying
> on Calvary (in my place) in order to make the proper atonement for my soul -
> so I can thank Jesus for eternity for making the way for me.
>> On Oct 30, 2:26 pm, thea <thea.n...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > On Fri, Oct 30, 2009 at 9:13 AM, Sebastian <mezna...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > > Well I am keeping my mind open to god's existence. I believe that any
>> > > non-contradictory version of god CAN exist (in other words, I neither
>> > > believe nor disbelieve). I am an atheist with regards to any
>> > > contradictory version, however.
>> > The only thing I have found that the Bible says that I believe really
>> does
>> > happen is:
>> > *When we search for the Lord Jesus with our whole heart - HE is found by
>> > us.*
>> > How do we search? To me it came from asking for the Truth - and then as
>> I
>> > look
>> > back I see how I was taught from here and from there, what the Truth was
>> --
>> > and then I asked for Where's the Power? And the same thing happened.
>> > I learned over a period of time that *God lives in the praises of His
>> > People*
>> > and as long as I am willing to ask - I will receive as I say Thank You.
>> > Psalms 50:14 and 15 also give a clue as to how God works in the here and
>> > now.
>> > I ask, and I say Thank You, and I get the answer to my prayers.
>> > > On Oct 30, 2:05 pm, thea <thea.n...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > > > On Fri, Oct 30, 2009 at 9:02 AM, Sebastian <mezna...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> > > > > If god exists, I want to find it (him/her), thea. I am not adamant
>> > > > > that no god can possibly exist. But so far, if you are right,
>> Jesus
>> > > > > has decided not to allow my mind to believe despite the fact that
>> I
>> > > > > want to find god (if it exists).
>> > > > How so??
>> > > > > On Oct 29, 6:11 pm, thea <thea.n...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > > > > > On Thu, Oct 29, 2009 at 12:08 PM, Sebastian <
>> mezna...@gmail.com>
>> > > wrote:
>> > > > > > > If what you are saying is true, then it seems to me that faith
>> here
>> > > on
>> > > > > > > Earth has little consequence. I am sure that almost any
>> atheist
>> > > who'd
>> > > > > > > find that they were wrong and that christianity was right
>> would
>> > > accept
>> > > > > > > their failure and change their mind.
>> > > > > > Nope! People do not change their minds because of something -
>> > > however
>> > > > > right
>> > > > > > or wrong.
>> > > > > > People only become Christians when Jesus allows their minds to
>> > > believe
>> > > > > that
>> > > > > > HE Exists.
>> > > > > > And, this only happens when someone wants to find God. When
>> someone
>> > > > > wants
>> > > > > > to find God, and are willing to search with their whole heart -
>> they
>> > > find
>> > > > > > the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Israel, and find abundance in
>> every
>> > > area
>> > > > > of
>> > > > > > their lives.
>> > > > > > > On Oct 29, 4:52 pm, thea <thea.n...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > > > > > > > I believe that there is much we do not know. We do not know
>> if
>> > > Jesus
>> > > > > > > will
>> > > > > > > > reveal himself to all (I personally believe that HE will),
>> at a
>> > > > > future
>> > > > > > > time
>> > > > > > > > - in which they can make the choice to choose Jesus over
>> Satan.
>> > > > > > > > I do believe that right now, for us --Today is the day of
>> > > salvation -
>> > > > > and
>> > > > > > > > may be the only time we have to accept Jesus as our Saviour.
>> > > > > > > > On Tue, Oct 27, 2009 at 9:34 AM, Sebastian <
>> mezna...@gmail.com>
>> > > > > wrote:
>> > > > > > > > > I see. Of course we are still missing all those between 30
>> CE
>> > > and
>> > > > > the
>> > > > > > > > > time when Jesus returns that have not heard of the bible
>> and
>> > > will
>> > > > > go
>> > > > > > > > > to hell as a result. They have not been proved much. What
>> > > worries
>> > > > > me
>> > > > > > > > > is that if god is perfect and all, why can't he just
>> deliver
>> > > his
>> > > > > > > > > message to everyone individually in a way that can be
>> > > understood
>> > > > > > > > > perfectly? Why do we need a 2000 year old book written
>> about a
>> > > > > person
>> > > > > > > > > that no writer of the book is supposed to know personally
>> and
>> > > that
>> > > > > > > > > some people do not even accept existed? And then there is
>> a
>> > > bunch
>> > > > > of
>> > > > > > > > > scientific evidence that shows that the world is not as
>> > > described
>> > > > > in
>> > > > > > > > > there.
>> > > > > > > > > After a full review of the book and the world, what should
>> > > remain?
>> > > > > > > > > Disbelief and scepticism.
>> > > > > > > > > On Oct 27, 12:02 am, thea <thea.n...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Oct 26, 2009 at 9:59 AM, Sebastian <
>> > > mezna...@gmail.com>
>> > > > > > > wrote:
>> > > > > > > > > > > I see. So then for those it was not a requirement to
>> have
>> > > > > believed
>> > > > > > > in
>> > > > > > > > > > > god during their lives in order to go to heaven. Would
>> you
>> > > then
>> > > > > say
>> > > > > > > > > > > that this requirement does not apply to anyone who has
>> not
>> > > > > heard of
>> > > > > > > > > > > the bible and that they go to heaven no matter what?
>> > > > > > > > > > No, they do not go to heaven no matter what. Jesus only
>> > > > > descended
>> > > > > > > into
>> > > > > > > > > hell
>> > > > > > > > > > once -- from then on human beings must accept Jesus the
>> same
>> > > as
>> > > > > you
>> > > > > > > and
>> > > > > > > > > me.
>> > > > > > > > > > They have to accept the Savior. Jesus preached to the
>> souls
>> > > in
>> > > > > hell
>> > > > > > > > > before
>> > > > > > > > > > God raised Him from the dead.
>> > > > > > > > > > The human beings who accepted what HE said, were raised
>> with
>> > > Him.
>> > > > > > > > > > Since we do have the Bible and knowledge of Jesus being
>> on
>> > > earth
>> > > > > -
>> > > > > > > and
>> > > > > > > > > the
>> > > > > > > > > > Grace of God to us for the
On Tue, Nov 3, 2009 at 6:02 PM, Doris Ragland <dr4...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Amen to all that...Do you believe that Jesus walks in the flesh now..thru
> his son's ?
Thea
Jesus walks in the flesh now - inside all who have accepted Jesus as their
Saviour -- through the ministry of the Holy Spirit (which is the Comforter
which was promised to the disciples), and because the Holy Spirit's presence
is our *down payment* of our future inheritance.
Something I like to point out to believers (believer's only) -- at the
Rapture, all God has to do is send *full payment* and since we already have
the *down-payment* in the here and now.
God will not reign His Wrath upon Himself. So the tribulation will wreck
havoc on unbelievers only. A human being, who has accepted Jesus as being
raised by God from the dead, will be taken out of the way before the
tribulation.
> On Tue, Nov 3, 2009 at 9:13 AM, thea <thea.n...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Mon, Nov 2, 2009 at 8:19 AM, Sebastian <mezna...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> thea: "How do we search? To me it came from asking for the Truth -
>>> and then as I
>>> look
>>> back I see how I was taught from here and from there, what the Truth
>>> was --
>>> and then I asked for Where's the Power? And the same thing happened.
>>> I learned over a period of time that *God lives in the praises of His
>>> People* "
>>> I search for the truth and I do not find god. I find a universe that
>>> works according to some laws that appear inconsistent with the concept
>>> of a benevolent omnipotent being.
>> Sebastian: Let me explain how to view the Bible.
>> between Genesis and Matt, Mark, Luke and John is the New Testament is the
>> genealogy of Jesus and Jesus' life on earth. When we get to the book of
>> Acts we see a changing program being given to mankind. The book of Acts
>> starts with the Kingdom message and St. Peter preaching. In this book of
>> Acts we find that St. Paul (his name was Saul) starts his ministry to the
>> Gentiles. He is sent to the Gentiles - and this is the start of the
>> dispensation of the Grace of God to both Jews and Gentiles which is still
>> going on today. Romans through Titus is St. Pauls ministry to the Gentiles
>> and Jews. Hebrews through Revelation is speaking to the Jews in the Kingdom
>> Age (1,000 years) which is still to come after the Tribulation.
>> In understand that we are in this dispensational Age of Grace to all of
>> mankind - if we start reading in Romans, we find our salvation is in Romans
>> 10:9 (If we accept that God raised Jesus from the dead, we shall be saved).
>> Our place and position in the here and now is in Ephesians 1 (chosen in
>> Christ Jesus from Before the Foundation of the World -- having accepted the
>> redemption offered through the blood, the forgiveness of sins [past, present
>> and future] and we are sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise - Who is the
>> *down-payment* of our inheritance. And then in I Thessalonians 4, we see
>> our homegoing in the *caught up together with them in the clouds*.
>> John 3:16 Jesus said, God so loved us that HE gave His Son - that
>> whosoever (means all of us) believe in HIM, shall not perish, but have
>> everlasting life.
>> John 3:17 Jesus said, that HE came that we might be saved.
>> I can remember when a pastor used to pray what he called the *sinner's
>> prayer* every night on the radio as I was going down the highway. I prayed
>> that prayer for a week, before I realized that I only had to ask once - and
>> it was a done item.
>> To accept Jesus -- just ask HIM!
>> *Jesus, I'm not sure you are hearing me - but I want to know who You are*
>> *I want to find YOU, Jesus!*
>> When I began this journey and search for Jesus - it took a little time.
>> I had had good Bible teaching along the way and had learned many passages
>> of scripture as a child.
>> The first scripture which came to memory after asking God to show me the
>> truth was the verse which says, *I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life*.
>> The only Way to God the Father is through Jesus Christ. Jesus is the
>> Truth.
>> And the Life of an animal is in the blood (Leviticus 17:11: *For the
>> life of the flesh is in the blood; and I have given it to you upon the altar
>> to make an atonement for your souls; for it is the blood that maketh an
>> atonement for the soul.) - And this is why we enjoy salvation - a *Know-so*
>> salvation - because the atonement that was made for us through Jesus dying
>> on Calvary (in my place) in order to make the proper atonement for my soul -
>> so I can thank Jesus for eternity for making the way for me.
>>> On Oct 30, 2:26 pm, thea <thea.n...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> > On Fri, Oct 30, 2009 at 9:13 AM, Sebastian <mezna...@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>> > > Well I am keeping my mind open to god's existence. I believe that any
>>> > > non-contradictory version of god CAN exist (in other words, I neither
>>> > > believe nor disbelieve). I am an atheist with regards to any
>>> > > contradictory version, however.
>>> > The only thing I have found that the Bible says that I believe really
>>> does
>>> > happen is:
>>> > *When we search for the Lord Jesus with our whole heart - HE is found
>>> by
>>> > us.*
>>> > How do we search? To me it came from asking for the Truth - and then
>>> as I
>>> > look
>>> > back I see how I was taught from here and from there, what the Truth
>>> was --
>>> > and then I asked for Where's the Power? And the same thing happened.
>>> > I learned over a period of time that *God lives in the praises of His
>>> > People*
>>> > and as long as I am willing to ask - I will receive as I say Thank You.
>>> > Psalms 50:14 and 15 also give a clue as to how God works in the here
>>> and
>>> > now.
>>> > I ask, and I say Thank You, and I get the answer to my prayers.
>>> > > On Oct 30, 2:05 pm, thea <thea.n...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> > > > On Fri, Oct 30, 2009 at 9:02 AM, Sebastian <mezna...@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>> > > > > If god exists, I want to find it (him/her), thea. I am not
>>> adamant
>>> > > > > that no god can possibly exist. But so far, if you are right,
>>> Jesus
>>> > > > > has decided not to allow my mind to believe despite the fact that
>>> I
>>> > > > > want to find god (if it exists).
>>> > > > How so??
>>> > > > > On Oct 29, 6:11 pm, thea <thea.n...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> > > > > > On Thu, Oct 29, 2009 at 12:08 PM, Sebastian <
>>> mezna...@gmail.com>
>>> > > wrote:
>>> > > > > > > If what you are saying is true, then it seems to me that
>>> faith here
>>> > > on
>>> > > > > > > Earth has little consequence. I am sure that almost any
>>> atheist
>>> > > who'd
>>> > > > > > > find that they were wrong and that christianity was right
>>> would
>>> > > accept
>>> > > > > > > their failure and change their mind.
>>> > > > > > Nope! People do not change their minds because of something -
>>> > > however
>>> > > > > right
>>> > > > > > or wrong.
>>> > > > > > People only become Christians when Jesus allows their minds to
>>> > > believe
>>> > > > > that
>>> > > > > > HE Exists.
>>> > > > > > And, this only happens when someone wants to find God. When
>>> someone
>>> > > > > wants
>>> > > > > > to find God, and are willing to search with their whole heart -
>>> they
>>> > > find
>>> > > > > > the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Israel, and find abundance in
>>> every
>>> > > area
>>> > > > > of
>>> > > > > > their lives.
>>> > > > > > > On Oct 29, 4:52 pm, thea <thea.n...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> > > > > > > > I believe that there is much we do not know. We do not
>>> know if
>>> > > Jesus
>>> > > > > > > will
>>> > > > > > > > reveal himself to all (I personally believe that HE will),
>>> at a
>>> > > > > future
>>> > > > > > > time
>>> > > > > > > > - in which they can make the choice to choose Jesus over
>>> Satan.
>>> > > > > > > > I do believe that right now, for us --Today is the day of
>>> > > salvation -
>>> > > > > and
>>> > > > > > > > may be the only time we have to accept Jesus as our
>>> Saviour.
>>> > > > > > > > On Tue, Oct 27, 2009 at 9:34 AM, Sebastian <
>>> mezna...@gmail.com>
>>> > > > > wrote:
>>> > > > > > > > > I see. Of course we are still missing all those between
>>> 30 CE
>>> > > and
>>> > > > > the
>>> > > > > > > > > time when Jesus returns that have not heard of the bible
>>> and
>>> > > will
>>> > > > > go
>>> > > > > > > > > to hell as a result. They have not been proved much. What
>>> > > worries
>>> > > > > me
>>> > > > > > > > > is that if god is perfect and all, why can't he just
>>> deliver
>>> > > his
>>> > > > > > > > > message to everyone individually in a way that can be
>>> > > understood
>>> > > > > > > > > perfectly? Why do we need a 2000 year old book written
>>> about a
>>> > > > > person
>>> > > > > > > > > that no writer of the book is supposed to know personally
>>> and
>>> > > that
>>> > > > > > > > > some people do not even accept existed? And then there is
>>> a
>>> > > bunch
>>> > > > > of
>>> > > > > > > > > scientific evidence that shows that the world is not as
>>> > > described
>>> > > > > in
>>> > > > > > > > > there.
>>> > > > > > > > > After a full review of the book and the world, what
>>> should
>>> > > remain?
>>> > > > > > > > > Disbelief and scepticism.
>>> > > > > > > > > On Oct 27, 12:02 am, thea <thea.n...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Oct 26, 2009 at 9:59 AM, Sebastian <
>>> > > mezna...@gmail.com>
>>> > > > > > > wrote:
>>> > > > > > > > > > > I see. So then for those it was not a requirement to
>>> have
>>> > > > > believed
>>> > > > > > > in
>>> > > > > > > > > > > god during their lives in order to go to heaven.
> On Mon, Nov 2, 2009 at 8:19 AM, Sebastian <mezna...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > thea: "How do we search? To me it came from asking for the Truth -
> > and then as I
> > look
> > back I see how I was taught from here and from there, what the Truth
> > was --
> > and then I asked for Where's the Power? And the same thing happened.
> > I learned over a period of time that *God lives in the praises of His
> > People* "
> > I search for the truth and I do not find god. I find a universe that
> > works according to some laws that appear inconsistent with the concept
> > of a benevolent omnipotent being.
> Sebastian: Let me explain how to view the Bible.
> between Genesis and Matt, Mark, Luke and John is the New Testament is the
> genealogy of Jesus and Jesus' life on earth. When we get to the book of
> Acts we see a changing program being given to mankind. The book of Acts
> starts with the Kingdom message and St. Peter preaching. In this book of
> Acts we find that St. Paul (his name was Saul) starts his ministry to the
> Gentiles. He is sent to the Gentiles - and this is the start of the
> dispensation of the Grace of God to both Jews and Gentiles which is still
> going on today. Romans through Titus is St. Pauls ministry to the Gentiles
> and Jews. Hebrews through Revelation is speaking to the Jews in the Kingdom
> Age (1,000 years) which is still to come after the Tribulation.
> In understand that we are in this dispensational Age of Grace to all of
> mankind - if we start reading in Romans, we find our salvation is in Romans
> 10:9 (If we accept that God raised Jesus from the dead, we shall be saved).
> Our place and position in the here and now is in Ephesians 1 (chosen in
> Christ Jesus from Before the Foundation of the World -- having accepted the
> redemption offered through the blood, the forgiveness of sins [past, present
> and future] and we are sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise - Who is the
> *down-payment* of our inheritance. And then in I Thessalonians 4, we see
> our homegoing in the *caught up together with them in the clouds*.
> John 3:16 Jesus said, God so loved us that HE gave His Son - that whosoever
> (means all of us) believe in HIM, shall not perish, but have everlasting
> life.
> John 3:17 Jesus said, that HE came that we might be saved.
> I can remember when a pastor used to pray what he called the *sinner's
> prayer* every night on the radio as I was going down the highway. I prayed
> that prayer for a week, before I realized that I only had to ask once - and
> it was a done item.
> To accept Jesus -- just ask HIM!
> *Jesus, I'm not sure you are hearing me - but I want to know who You are*
> *I want to find YOU, Jesus!*
> When I began this journey and search for Jesus - it took a little time.
> I had had good Bible teaching along the way and had learned many passages of
> scripture as a child.
> The first scripture which came to memory after asking God to show me the
> truth was the verse which says, *I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life*.
> The only Way to God the Father is through Jesus Christ. Jesus is the Truth.
> And the Life of an animal is in the blood (Leviticus 17:11: *For the
> life of the flesh is in the blood; and I have given it to you upon the altar
> to make an atonement for your souls; for it is the blood that maketh an
> atonement for the soul.) - And this is why we enjoy salvation - a *Know-so*
> salvation - because the atonement that was made for us through Jesus dying
> on Calvary (in my place) in order to make the proper atonement for my soul -
> so I can thank Jesus for eternity for making the way for me.
> > On Oct 30, 2:26 pm, thea <thea.n...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > On Fri, Oct 30, 2009 at 9:13 AM, Sebastian <mezna...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > Well I am keeping my mind open to god's existence. I believe that any
> > > > non-contradictory version of god CAN exist (in other words, I neither
> > > > believe nor disbelieve). I am an atheist with regards to any
> > > > contradictory version, however.
> > > The only thing I have found that the Bible says that I believe really
> > does
> > > happen is:
> > > *When we search for the Lord Jesus with our whole heart - HE is found by
> > > us.*
> > > How do we search? To me it came from asking for the Truth - and then as
> > I
> > > look
> > > back I see how I was taught from here and from there, what the Truth was
> > --
> > > and then I asked for Where's the Power? And the same thing happened.
> > > I learned over a period of time that *God lives in the praises of His
> > > People*
> > > and as long as I am willing to ask - I will receive as I say Thank You.
> > > Psalms 50:14 and 15 also give a clue as to how God works in the here and
> > > now.
> > > I ask, and I say Thank You, and I get the answer to my prayers.
> > > > On Oct 30, 2:05 pm, thea <thea.n...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > On Fri, Oct 30, 2009 at 9:02 AM, Sebastian <mezna...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > > > > > If god exists, I want to find it (him/her), thea. I am not adamant
> > > > > > that no god can possibly exist. But so far, if you are right, Jesus
> > > > > > has decided not to allow my mind to believe despite the fact that I
> > > > > > want to find god (if it exists).
> > > > > How so??
> > > > > > On Oct 29, 6:11 pm, thea <thea.n...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > On Thu, Oct 29, 2009 at 12:08 PM, Sebastian <mezna...@gmail.com
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > If what you are saying is true, then it seems to me that faith
> > here
> > > > on
> > > > > > > > Earth has little consequence. I am sure that almost any atheist
> > > > who'd
> > > > > > > > find that they were wrong and that christianity was right would
> > > > accept
> > > > > > > > their failure and change their mind.
> > > > > > > Nope! People do not change their minds because of something -
> > > > however
> > > > > > right
> > > > > > > or wrong.
> > > > > > > People only become Christians when Jesus allows their minds to
> > > > believe
> > > > > > that
> > > > > > > HE Exists.
> > > > > > > And, this only happens when someone wants to find God. When
> > someone
> > > > > > wants
> > > > > > > to find God, and are willing to search with their whole heart -
> > they
> > > > find
> > > > > > > the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Israel, and find abundance in
> > every
> > > > area
> > > > > > of
> > > > > > > their lives.
> > > > > > > > On Oct 29, 4:52 pm, thea <thea.n...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > I believe that there is much we do not know. We do not know
> > if
> > > > Jesus
> > > > > > > > will
> > > > > > > > > reveal himself to all (I personally believe that HE will), at
> > a
> > > > > > future
> > > > > > > > time
> > > > > > > > > - in which they can make the choice to choose Jesus over
> > Satan.
> > > > > > > > > I do believe that right now, for us --Today is the day of
> > > > salvation -
> > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > may be the only time we have to accept Jesus as our Saviour.
> > > > > > > > > On Tue, Oct 27, 2009 at 9:34 AM, Sebastian <
> > mezna...@gmail.com>
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > I see. Of course we are still missing all those between 30
> > CE
> > > > and
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > time when Jesus returns that have not heard of the bible
> > and
> > > > will
> > > > > > go
> > > > > > > > > > to hell as a result. They have not been proved much. What
> > > > worries
> > > > > > me
> > > > > > > > > > is that if god is perfect and all, why can't he just
> > deliver
> > > > his
> > > > > > > > > > message to everyone individually in a way that can be
> > > > understood
> > > > > > > > > > perfectly? Why do we need a 2000 year old book written
> > about a
> > > > > > person
> > > > > > > > > > that no writer of the book is supposed to know personally
> > and
> > > > that
> > > > > > > > > > some people do not even accept existed? And then there is a
> > > > bunch
> > > > > > of
> > > > > > > > > > scientific evidence that shows that the world is not as
> > > > described
> > > > > > in
> > > > > > > > > > there.
> > > > > > > > > > After a full review of the book and the world, what should
> > > > remain?
> > > > > > > > > > Disbelief and scepticism.
> > > > > > > > > > On Oct 27, 12:02 am, thea <thea.n...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Oct 26, 2009 at 9:59 AM, Sebastian <
> > > > mezna...@gmail.com>
> > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > I see. So then for those it was not a requirement to
> > have
> > > > > > believed
> > > > > > > > in
> > > > > > > > > > > > god during their lives in order to go to heaven. Would
> > you
> > > > then
> > > > > > say
> > > > > > > > > > > > that this requirement does not apply to anyone who has
> > not
> > > > > > heard of
> > > > > > > > > > > > the bible and that they go to heaven no matter what?
> > > > > > > > > > > No, they do not go to heaven no matter what. Jesus only
> > > > > > descended
> > > > > > > > into
> > > > > > > > > > hell
> > > > > > > > > > > once -- from then on human beings must accept Jesus the
> > same
> > > > as
> > > > > > you
> > > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > > me.
> > > > > > > > > > > They have to accept the Savior. Jesus preached to the
> > souls
> > > > in
> > > > > > hell
> > > > > > > > > > before
> > > > > > > > > > > God raised Him from the dead.
> > > > > > > > > > > The human beings who accepted what HE said, were raised
> > with
> > > > Him.
> > > > > > > > > > > Since we do have the Bible and knowledge of Jesus being
> > on
> > > > earth
> > > > > > -
> On Nov 3, 5:13 pm, thea <thea.n...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Mon, Nov 2, 2009 at 8:19 AM, Sebastian <mezna...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > thea: "How do we search? To me it came from asking for the Truth -
> > > and then as I
> > > look
> > > back I see how I was taught from here and from there, what the Truth
> > > was --
> > > and then I asked for Where's the Power? And the same thing happened.
> > > I learned over a period of time that *God lives in the praises of His
> > > People* "
> > > I search for the truth and I do not find god. I find a universe that
> > > works according to some laws that appear inconsistent with the concept
> > > of a benevolent omnipotent being.
> > Sebastian: Let me explain how to view the Bible.
> > between Genesis and Matt, Mark, Luke and John is the New Testament is the
> > genealogy of Jesus and Jesus' life on earth. When we get to the book of
> > Acts we see a changing program being given to mankind. The book of Acts
> > starts with the Kingdom message and St. Peter preaching. In this book of
> > Acts we find that St. Paul (his name was Saul) starts his ministry to the
> > Gentiles. He is sent to the Gentiles - and this is the start of the
> > dispensation of the Grace of God to both Jews and Gentiles which is still
> > going on today. Romans through Titus is St. Pauls ministry to the Gentiles
> > and Jews. Hebrews through Revelation is speaking to the Jews in the Kingdom
> > Age (1,000 years) which is still to come after the Tribulation.
> > In understand that we are in this dispensational Age of Grace to all of
> > mankind - if we start reading in Romans, we find our salvation is in Romans
> > 10:9 (If we accept that God raised Jesus from the dead, we shall be saved).
> > Our place and position in the here and now is in Ephesians 1 (chosen in
> > Christ Jesus from Before the Foundation of the World -- having accepted the
> > redemption offered through the blood, the forgiveness of sins [past, present
> > and future] and we are sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise - Who is the
> > *down-payment* of our inheritance. And then in I Thessalonians 4, we see
> > our homegoing in the *caught up together with them in the clouds*.
> > John 3:16 Jesus said, God so loved us that HE gave His Son - that whosoever
> > (means all of us) believe in HIM, shall not perish, but have everlasting
> > life.
> > John 3:17 Jesus said, that HE came that we might be saved.
> > I can remember when a pastor used to pray what he called the *sinner's
> > prayer* every night on the radio as I was going down the highway. I prayed
> > that prayer for a week, before I realized that I only had to ask once - and
> > it was a done item.
> > To accept Jesus -- just ask HIM!
> > *Jesus, I'm not sure you are hearing me - but I want to know who You are*
> > *I want to find YOU, Jesus!*
> > When I began this journey and search for Jesus - it took a little time.
> > I had had good Bible teaching along the way and had learned many passages of
> > scripture as a child.
> > The first scripture which came to memory after asking God to show me the
> > truth was the verse which says, *I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life*.
> > The only Way to God the Father is through Jesus Christ. Jesus is the Truth.
> > And the Life of an animal is in the blood (Leviticus 17:11: *For the
> > life of the flesh is in the blood; and I have given it to you upon the altar
> > to make an atonement for your souls; for it is the blood that maketh an
> > atonement for the soul.) - And this is why we enjoy salvation - a *Know-so*
> > salvation - because the atonement that was made for us through Jesus dying
> > on Calvary (in my place) in order to make the proper atonement for my soul -
> > so I can thank Jesus for eternity for making the way for me.
> > > On Oct 30, 2:26 pm, thea <thea.n...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > On Fri, Oct 30, 2009 at 9:13 AM, Sebastian <mezna...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > Well I am keeping my mind open to god's existence. I believe that any
> > > > > non-contradictory version of god CAN exist (in other words, I neither
> > > > > believe nor disbelieve). I am an atheist with regards to any
> > > > > contradictory version, however.
> > > > The only thing I have found that the Bible says that I believe really
> > > does
> > > > happen is:
> > > > *When we search for the Lord Jesus with our whole heart - HE is found by
> > > > us.*
> > > > How do we search? To me it came from asking for the Truth - and then as
> > > I
> > > > look
> > > > back I see how I was taught from here and from there, what the Truth was
> > > --
> > > > and then I asked for Where's the Power? And the same thing happened.
> > > > I learned over a period of time that *God lives in the praises of His
> > > > People*
> > > > and as long as I am willing to ask - I will receive as I say Thank You.
> > > > Psalms 50:14 and 15 also give a clue as to how God works in the here and
> > > > now.
> > > > I ask, and I say Thank You, and I get the answer to my prayers.
> > > > > On Oct 30, 2:05 pm, thea <thea.n...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > On Fri, Oct 30, 2009 at 9:02 AM, Sebastian <mezna...@gmail.com>
> > > wrote:
> > > > > > > If god exists, I want to find it (him/her), thea. I am not adamant
> > > > > > > that no god can possibly exist. But so far, if you are right, Jesus
> > > > > > > has decided not to allow my mind to believe despite the fact that I
> > > > > > > want to find god (if it exists).
> > > > > > How so??
> > > > > > > On Oct 29, 6:11 pm, thea <thea.n...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > > On Thu, Oct 29, 2009 at 12:08 PM, Sebastian <mezna...@gmail.com
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > If what you are saying is true, then it seems to me that faith
> > > here
> > > > > on
> > > > > > > > > Earth has little consequence. I am sure that almost any atheist
> > > > > who'd
> > > > > > > > > find that they were wrong and that christianity was right would
> > > > > accept
> > > > > > > > > their failure and change their mind.
> > > > > > > > Nope! People do not change their minds because of something -
> > > > > however
> > > > > > > right
> > > > > > > > or wrong.
> > > > > > > > People only become Christians when Jesus allows their minds to
> > > > > believe
> > > > > > > that
> > > > > > > > HE Exists.
> > > > > > > > And, this only happens when someone wants to find God. When
> > > someone
> > > > > > > wants
> > > > > > > > to find God, and are willing to search with their whole heart -
> > > they
> > > > > find
> > > > > > > > the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Israel, and find abundance in
> > > every
> > > > > area
> > > > > > > of
> > > > > > > > their lives.
> > > > > > > > > On Oct 29, 4:52 pm, thea <thea.n...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > I believe that there is much we do not know. We do not know
> > > if
> > > > > Jesus
> > > > > > > > > will
> > > > > > > > > > reveal himself to all (I personally believe that HE will), at
> > > a
> > > > > > > future
> > > > > > > > > time
> > > > > > > > > > - in which they can make the choice to choose Jesus over
> > > Satan.
> > > > > > > > > > I do believe that right now, for us --Today is the day of
> > > > > salvation -
> > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > > may be the only time we have to accept Jesus as our Saviour.
> > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Oct 27, 2009 at 9:34 AM, Sebastian <
> > > mezna...@gmail.com>
> > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > I see. Of course we are still missing all those between 30
> > > CE
> > > > > and
> > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > time when Jesus returns that have not heard of the bible
> > > and
> > > > > will
> > > > > > > go
> > > > > > > > > > > to hell as a result. They have not been proved much. What
> > > > > worries
> > > > > > > me
> > > > > > > > > > > is that if god is perfect and all, why can't he just
> > > deliver
> > > > > his
> > > > > > > > > > > message to everyone individually in a way that can be
> > > > > understood
> > > > > > > > > > > perfectly? Why do we need a 2000 year old book written
> > > about a
> > > > > > > person
> > > > > > > > > > > that no writer of the book is supposed to know personally
> > > and
> > > > > that
> > > > > > > > > > > some people do not even accept existed? And then there is a
> > > > > bunch
> > > > > > > of
> > > > > > > > > > > scientific evidence that shows that the world is not as
> > > > > described
> > > > > > > in
> > > > > > > > > > > there.
> > > > > > > > > > > After a full review of the book and the world, what should
> > > > > remain?
> > > > > > > > > > > Disbelief and scepticism.
> > > > > > > > > > > On Oct 27, 12:02 am, thea <thea.n...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Oct 26, 2009 at 9:59 AM, Sebastian <
> > > > > mezna...@gmail.com>
> > > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > I see. So then for those it was not a requirement to
> > > have
> > > > > > > believed
> > > > > > > > > in
> > > > > > > > > > > > > god during their lives in order to go to heaven. Would
> > > you
> > > > > then
> > > > > > > say
> > > > > > > > > > > > > that this requirement does not apply to anyone who has
> > > not
> > > > > > > heard of
> > > > > > > > > > > > > the bible and that they go to heaven no matter what?
> > > > > > > > > > > > No, they do not go to heaven no matter what. Jesus only
> > > > > > > descended
> > > > > > > > > into
> > > > > > > > > > > hell
> > > > > > > > > > > > once -- from then on human beings must accept
On Wed, Nov 4, 2009 at 3:10 PM, Sebastian <mezna...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I tried what you suggested. Nothing happened. Just silence. Nothing
> has changed inside me or outside me.
Oh, you have changed - you don't know it yet -- that's all.
You see, even I when I wanted to come to Jesus after drifting away (I think
all Preacher's Kids have a tendancy to want to *get out* -- I was
priviledged to have a father who continued to pray for me and so I came
back), I found that it was a week of asking, before I realized that I had
only had to ask the first time.
Then when I started to kneel down and ask God for something - I discovered
to my dismay that all I could think of was something I had done that hurt
another human being.
I learned that when these thoughts came that if I would ask God for help in
knowing how to *right* the situations -- whether it was asking for
forgiveness for lying, cheating, etc. - that Jesus would tell me what to
do. When I did what HE said do, I found that HE had already prepared the
way before me, and I was forgiven by others before I even asked.
And, as I cleaned out the *cob webs* in my soul, that the Holy Spirit just
kept filling me up more and more with the blessings that come from knowing
with that *know-so* salvation.
You have started a journey, and if you really want what you asked for, Jesus
is right beside you and will lead, guide and direct you to His Truth.
> On Nov 3, 5:13 pm, thea <thea.n...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Mon, Nov 2, 2009 at 8:19 AM, Sebastian <mezna...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > thea: "How do we search? To me it came from asking for the Truth -
> > > and then as I
> > > look
> > > back I see how I was taught from here and from there, what the Truth
> > > was --
> > > and then I asked for Where's the Power? And the same thing happened.
> > > I learned over a period of time that *God lives in the praises of His
> > > People* "
> > > I search for the truth and I do not find god. I find a universe that
> > > works according to some laws that appear inconsistent with the concept
> > > of a benevolent omnipotent being.
> > Sebastian: Let me explain how to view the Bible.
> > between Genesis and Matt, Mark, Luke and John is the New Testament is the
> > genealogy of Jesus and Jesus' life on earth. When we get to the book of
> > Acts we see a changing program being given to mankind. The book of Acts
> > starts with the Kingdom message and St. Peter preaching. In this book of
> > Acts we find that St. Paul (his name was Saul) starts his ministry to the
> > Gentiles. He is sent to the Gentiles - and this is the start of the
> > dispensation of the Grace of God to both Jews and Gentiles which is still
> > going on today. Romans through Titus is St. Pauls ministry to the
> Gentiles
> > and Jews. Hebrews through Revelation is speaking to the Jews in the
> Kingdom
> > Age (1,000 years) which is still to come after the Tribulation.
> > In understand that we are in this dispensational Age of Grace to all of
> > mankind - if we start reading in Romans, we find our salvation is in
> Romans
> > 10:9 (If we accept that God raised Jesus from the dead, we shall be
> saved).
> > Our place and position in the here and now is in Ephesians 1 (chosen in
> > Christ Jesus from Before the Foundation of the World -- having accepted
> the
> > redemption offered through the blood, the forgiveness of sins [past,
> present
> > and future] and we are sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise - Who is
> the
> > *down-payment* of our inheritance. And then in I Thessalonians 4, we
> see
> > our homegoing in the *caught up together with them in the clouds*.
> > John 3:16 Jesus said, God so loved us that HE gave His Son - that
> whosoever
> > (means all of us) believe in HIM, shall not perish, but have everlasting
> > life.
> > John 3:17 Jesus said, that HE came that we might be saved.
> > I can remember when a pastor used to pray what he called the *sinner's
> > prayer* every night on the radio as I was going down the highway. I
> prayed
> > that prayer for a week, before I realized that I only had to ask once -
> and
> > it was a done item.
> > To accept Jesus -- just ask HIM!
> > *Jesus, I'm not sure you are hearing me - but I want to know who You are*
> > *I want to find YOU, Jesus!*
> > When I began this journey and search for Jesus - it took a little time.
> > I had had good Bible teaching along the way and had learned many passages
> of
> > scripture as a child.
> > The first scripture which came to memory after asking God to show me the
> > truth was the verse which says, *I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life*.
> > The only Way to God the Father is through Jesus Christ. Jesus is the
> Truth.
> > And the Life of an animal is in the blood (Leviticus 17:11: *For the
> > life of the flesh is in the blood; and I have given it to you upon the
> altar
> > to make an atonement for your souls; for it is the blood that maketh an
> > atonement for the soul.) - And this is why we enjoy salvation - a
> *Know-so*
> > salvation - because the atonement that was made for us through Jesus
> dying
> > on Calvary (in my place) in order to make the proper atonement for my
> soul -
> > so I can thank Jesus for eternity for making the way for me.
> > > On Oct 30, 2:26 pm, thea <thea.n...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > On Fri, Oct 30, 2009 at 9:13 AM, Sebastian <mezna...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > > > > Well I am keeping my mind open to god's existence. I believe that
> any
> > > > > non-contradictory version of god CAN exist (in other words, I
> neither
> > > > > believe nor disbelieve). I am an atheist with regards to any
> > > > > contradictory version, however.
> > > > The only thing I have found that the Bible says that I believe really
> > > does
> > > > happen is:
> > > > *When we search for the Lord Jesus with our whole heart - HE is found
> by
> > > > us.*
> > > > How do we search? To me it came from asking for the Truth - and then
> as
> > > I
> > > > look
> > > > back I see how I was taught from here and from there, what the Truth
> was
> > > --
> > > > and then I asked for Where's the Power? And the same thing happened.
> > > > I learned over a period of time that *God lives in the praises of His
> > > > People*
> > > > and as long as I am willing to ask - I will receive as I say Thank
> You.
> > > > Psalms 50:14 and 15 also give a clue as to how God works in the here
> and
> > > > now.
> > > > I ask, and I say Thank You, and I get the answer to my prayers.
> > > > > On Oct 30, 2:05 pm, thea <thea.n...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > On Fri, Oct 30, 2009 at 9:02 AM, Sebastian <mezna...@gmail.com>
> > > wrote:
> > > > > > > If god exists, I want to find it (him/her), thea. I am not
> adamant
> > > > > > > that no god can possibly exist. But so far, if you are right,
> Jesus
> > > > > > > has decided not to allow my mind to believe despite the fact
> that I
> > > > > > > want to find god (if it exists).
> > > > > > How so??
> > > > > > > On Oct 29, 6:11 pm, thea <thea.n...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > > On Thu, Oct 29, 2009 at 12:08 PM, Sebastian <
> mezna...@gmail.com
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > If what you are saying is true, then it seems to me that
> faith
> > > here
> > > > > on
> > > > > > > > > Earth has little consequence. I am sure that almost any
> atheist
> > > > > who'd
> > > > > > > > > find that they were wrong and that christianity was right
> would
> > > > > accept
> > > > > > > > > their failure and change their mind.
> > > > > > > > Nope! People do not change their minds because of something
> -
> > > > > however
> > > > > > > right
> > > > > > > > or wrong.
> > > > > > > > People only become Christians when Jesus allows their minds
> to
> > > > > believe
> > > > > > > that
> > > > > > > > HE Exists.
> > > > > > > > And, this only happens when someone wants to find God. When
> > > someone
> > > > > > > wants
> > > > > > > > to find God, and are willing to search with their whole heart
> -
> > > they
> > > > > find
> > > > > > > > the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Israel, and find abundance in
> > > every
> > > > > area
> > > > > > > of
> > > > > > > > their lives.
> > > > > > > > > On Oct 29, 4:52 pm, thea <thea.n...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > I believe that there is much we do not know. We do not
> know
> > > if
> > > > > Jesus
> > > > > > > > > will
> > > > > > > > > > reveal himself to all (I personally believe that HE
> will), at
> > > a
> > > > > > > future
> > > > > > > > > time
> > > > > > > > > > - in which they can make the choice to choose Jesus over
> > > Satan.
> > > > > > > > > > I do believe that right now, for us --Today is the day of
> > > > > salvation -
> > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > > may be the only time we have to accept Jesus as our
> Saviour.
> > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Oct 27, 2009 at 9:34 AM, Sebastian <
> > > mezna...@gmail.com>
> > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > I see. Of course we are still missing all those between
> 30
> > > CE
> > > > > and
> > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > time when Jesus returns that have not heard of the
> bible
> > > and
> > > > > will
> > > > > > > go
> > > > > > > > > > > to hell as a result. They have not been proved much.
> What
> > > > > worries
> > > > > > > me
> > > > > > > > > > > is that if god is perfect and all, why can't he just
> > > deliver
> > > > > his
> > > > > > > > > > > message to everyone individually in a way that can be
> > > > > understood
> > > > > > > > > > > perfectly? Why do we need a 2000 year old book written
> > > about a
> > > > > > > person
> > > > > > > > > > > that no writer of the book is supposed to know
> personally
> > > and
> > > > > that
That's one possibility. Another possibility is that Jesus really does
not exist and me asking for it will do nothing. If anything changes, I
will let you know.
On Nov 5, 2:40 pm, thea <thea.n...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wed, Nov 4, 2009 at 3:10 PM, Sebastian <mezna...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > I tried what you suggested. Nothing happened. Just silence. Nothing
> > has changed inside me or outside me.
> Oh, you have changed - you don't know it yet -- that's all.
> You see, even I when I wanted to come to Jesus after drifting away (I think
> all Preacher's Kids have a tendancy to want to *get out* -- I was
> priviledged to have a father who continued to pray for me and so I came
> back), I found that it was a week of asking, before I realized that I had
> only had to ask the first time.
> Then when I started to kneel down and ask God for something - I discovered
> to my dismay that all I could think of was something I had done that hurt
> another human being.
> I learned that when these thoughts came that if I would ask God for help in
> knowing how to *right* the situations -- whether it was asking for
> forgiveness for lying, cheating, etc. - that Jesus would tell me what to
> do. When I did what HE said do, I found that HE had already prepared the
> way before me, and I was forgiven by others before I even asked.
> And, as I cleaned out the *cob webs* in my soul, that the Holy Spirit just
> kept filling me up more and more with the blessings that come from knowing
> with that *know-so* salvation.
> You have started a journey, and if you really want what you asked for, Jesus
> is right beside you and will lead, guide and direct you to His Truth.
> > On Nov 3, 5:13 pm, thea <thea.n...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > On Mon, Nov 2, 2009 at 8:19 AM, Sebastian <mezna...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > thea: "How do we search? To me it came from asking for the Truth -
> > > > and then as I
> > > > look
> > > > back I see how I was taught from here and from there, what the Truth
> > > > was --
> > > > and then I asked for Where's the Power? And the same thing happened.
> > > > I learned over a period of time that *God lives in the praises of His
> > > > People* "
> > > > I search for the truth and I do not find god. I find a universe that
> > > > works according to some laws that appear inconsistent with the concept
> > > > of a benevolent omnipotent being.
> > > Sebastian: Let me explain how to view the Bible.
> > > between Genesis and Matt, Mark, Luke and John is the New Testament is the
> > > genealogy of Jesus and Jesus' life on earth. When we get to the book of
> > > Acts we see a changing program being given to mankind. The book of Acts
> > > starts with the Kingdom message and St. Peter preaching. In this book of
> > > Acts we find that St. Paul (his name was Saul) starts his ministry to the
> > > Gentiles. He is sent to the Gentiles - and this is the start of the
> > > dispensation of the Grace of God to both Jews and Gentiles which is still
> > > going on today. Romans through Titus is St. Pauls ministry to the
> > Gentiles
> > > and Jews. Hebrews through Revelation is speaking to the Jews in the
> > Kingdom
> > > Age (1,000 years) which is still to come after the Tribulation.
> > > In understand that we are in this dispensational Age of Grace to all of
> > > mankind - if we start reading in Romans, we find our salvation is in
> > Romans
> > > 10:9 (If we accept that God raised Jesus from the dead, we shall be
> > saved).
> > > Our place and position in the here and now is in Ephesians 1 (chosen in
> > > Christ Jesus from Before the Foundation of the World -- having accepted
> > the
> > > redemption offered through the blood, the forgiveness of sins [past,
> > present
> > > and future] and we are sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise - Who is
> > the
> > > *down-payment* of our inheritance. And then in I Thessalonians 4, we
> > see
> > > our homegoing in the *caught up together with them in the clouds*.
> > > John 3:16 Jesus said, God so loved us that HE gave His Son - that
> > whosoever
> > > (means all of us) believe in HIM, shall not perish, but have everlasting
> > > life.
> > > John 3:17 Jesus said, that HE came that we might be saved.
> > > I can remember when a pastor used to pray what he called the *sinner's
> > > prayer* every night on the radio as I was going down the highway. I
> > prayed
> > > that prayer for a week, before I realized that I only had to ask once -
> > and
> > > it was a done item.
> > > To accept Jesus -- just ask HIM!
> > > *Jesus, I'm not sure you are hearing me - but I want to know who You are*
> > > *I want to find YOU, Jesus!*
> > > When I began this journey and search for Jesus - it took a little time.
> > > I had had good Bible teaching along the way and had learned many passages
> > of
> > > scripture as a child.
> > > The first scripture which came to memory after asking God to show me the
> > > truth was the verse which says, *I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life*.
> > > The only Way to God the Father is through Jesus Christ. Jesus is the
> > Truth.
> > > And the Life of an animal is in the blood (Leviticus 17:11: *For the
> > > life of the flesh is in the blood; and I have given it to you upon the
> > altar
> > > to make an atonement for your souls; for it is the blood that maketh an
> > > atonement for the soul.) - And this is why we enjoy salvation - a
> > *Know-so*
> > > salvation - because the atonement that was made for us through Jesus
> > dying
> > > on Calvary (in my place) in order to make the proper atonement for my
> > soul -
> > > so I can thank Jesus for eternity for making the way for me.
> > > > On Oct 30, 2:26 pm, thea <thea.n...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > On Fri, Oct 30, 2009 at 9:13 AM, Sebastian <mezna...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > > > > > Well I am keeping my mind open to god's existence. I believe that
> > any
> > > > > > non-contradictory version of god CAN exist (in other words, I
> > neither
> > > > > > believe nor disbelieve). I am an atheist with regards to any
> > > > > > contradictory version, however.
> > > > > The only thing I have found that the Bible says that I believe really
> > > > does
> > > > > happen is:
> > > > > *When we search for the Lord Jesus with our whole heart - HE is found
> > by
> > > > > us.*
> > > > > How do we search? To me it came from asking for the Truth - and then
> > as
> > > > I
> > > > > look
> > > > > back I see how I was taught from here and from there, what the Truth
> > was
> > > > --
> > > > > and then I asked for Where's the Power? And the same thing happened.
> > > > > I learned over a period of time that *God lives in the praises of His
> > > > > People*
> > > > > and as long as I am willing to ask - I will receive as I say Thank
> > You.
> > > > > Psalms 50:14 and 15 also give a clue as to how God works in the here
> > and
> > > > > now.
> > > > > I ask, and I say Thank You, and I get the answer to my prayers.
> > > > > > On Oct 30, 2:05 pm, thea <thea.n...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > On Fri, Oct 30, 2009 at 9:02 AM, Sebastian <mezna...@gmail.com>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > If god exists, I want to find it (him/her), thea. I am not
> > adamant
> > > > > > > > that no god can possibly exist. But so far, if you are right,
> > Jesus
> > > > > > > > has decided not to allow my mind to believe despite the fact
> > that I
> > > > > > > > want to find god (if it exists).
> > > > > > > How so??
> > > > > > > > On Oct 29, 6:11 pm, thea <thea.n...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > On Thu, Oct 29, 2009 at 12:08 PM, Sebastian <
> > mezna...@gmail.com
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > If what you are saying is true, then it seems to me that
> > faith
> > > > here
> > > > > > on
> > > > > > > > > > Earth has little consequence. I am sure that almost any
> > atheist
> > > > > > who'd
> > > > > > > > > > find that they were wrong and that christianity was right
> > would
> > > > > > accept
> > > > > > > > > > their failure and change their mind.
> > > > > > > > > Nope! People do not change their minds because of something
> > -
> > > > > > however
> > > > > > > > right
> > > > > > > > > or wrong.
> > > > > > > > > People only become Christians when Jesus allows their minds
> > to
> > > > > > believe
> > > > > > > > that
> > > > > > > > > HE Exists.
> > > > > > > > > And, this only happens when someone wants to find God. When
> > > > someone
> > > > > > > > wants
> > > > > > > > > to find God, and are willing to search with their whole heart
> > -
> > > > they
> > > > > > find
> > > > > > > > > the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Israel, and find abundance in
> > > > every
> > > > > > area
> > > > > > > > of
> > > > > > > > > their lives.
> > > > > > > > > > On Oct 29, 4:52 pm, thea <thea.n...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > I believe that there is much we do not know. We do not
> > know
> > > > if
> > > > > > Jesus
> > > > > > > > > > will
> > > > > > > > > > > reveal himself to all (I personally believe that HE
> > will), at
> > > > a
> > > > > > > > future
> > > > > > > > > > time
> > > > > > > > > > > - in which they can make the choice to choose Jesus over
> > > > Satan.
> > > > > > > > > > > I do believe that right now, for us --Today is the day of
> > > > > > salvation -
> > > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > > > may be the only time we have to accept Jesus as our
> > Saviour.
> > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Oct 27, 2009 at 9:34 AM, Sebastian <
> > > > mezna...@gmail.com>
> > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > I see. Of course we are still missing all those between
> > 30
> > > > CE
> > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > > time when Jesus returns that have not heard of the
> > bible
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